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Old 01-27-2023, 04:52 PM   #21
jasin1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbecky View Post
Locked Rotor Amps or LRA, is the instant current draw at the moment that power is applied to the compressor and it hasn't started to spin yet, which gives you the maximum load you can expect on the circuit going to the air conditioner compressor. This is also stated as the inrush current that occurs on startup. This is also what the soft start devices reduce on these A/C units to keep the breaker from tripping by slowing the start of the compressor instead of just slamming it with full power.
yes but it’s only for milliseconds and most people wouldn’t have a meter to measure that (inrush current)……in the HVAC field ,LRA is a mechanically locked motor that you can verify by it pulling the listed LRA.

for example in one of the air cond units on the list that was posted earlier in the thread,if you take one of the small ac units rated at max 20 amp breaker, you will not see 63 amps at startup on a normally operating unit with a amp clamp…you will probably see a 18-20 amps for example..and then it will quickly settle down to around the RLA

not trying to argue but the topic of LRA is like the ford / chevy or auto propane valve open vs shut discussions
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Old 01-27-2023, 05:21 PM   #22
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eh…i’m gonna pass on giving electrical advice
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Old 01-27-2023, 06:50 PM   #23
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Unless you're planning to rip out the 12 gauge ROMEX that the factory installed in the ceiling as part of the "2nd A/C option", then it's academic whether you put a 15 amp or a 20 amp circuit breaker in that position. The wiring is sized properly for 20 amps and the air conditioner likely will require 20 amps. Trying to "balance the load" by installing a 15 amp breaker on a 20 amp circuit is very likely going to lead to frustration and possible equipment failure (your frustration from dealing with tripped breakers and having to reset them and equipment failure from repeatedly overheating the breaker as well as the interrupted startups on the air conditioner compressor). Remember, there is a 90 second wait time from startup interruption before you can apply power to the compressor again without possible damage. Counting that down every time the 15 amp breaker trips on a 20 amp load will eventually get very, VERY old.....

Why not just install the air conditioner on the 20 amp circuit that was designated for it and deal with what to do with upgrading the other 15 amp circuit separately.

In nearly every application, a 5 amp difference in "total circuit breaker ratings" between the two input sources (line 1 and line 2) that 5 amp difference is minor and of no consequence.

Maybe explaining what your "other plans might be" would shed light on why your 5 amp concern is important ???? From what you've shared so far, it seems to be a "non starter for concern".....
^^^This is the question to me. Without explanation of the the goal this conversation is sort of pointless to me.
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Old 01-28-2023, 05:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
Got to ask, is that hard to replace the 15 amp with a 20 amp breaker?
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Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
Replacing the breaker is easy, but wouldn't recommend increasing the amp rating unless you positively know what's on that circuit, wire gauge & max amp draw. If it came equipped with a 15amp that's most likely the max that circuit should have before tripping the breaker, 20 amp may cause an electrical fire before tripping the breaker.
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Sorry if I wasn't clear - the unit is pre-wired for the 2nd AC unit so I assume that particular vent (there are 4 in my trailer) is braced properly. There is a 20A breaker labeled AC2 which I always have off and an electrical cover next to the vent with what I assume is 12ga Romex from the breaker to connect to the additional AC.

From memory the power panel is maxed out on breakers, with the 20A being free. With what I'm going to do, that 20A breaker will be used and another 15A breaker on that leg of the 50A service will be free. So I'd like to use the 15A breaker with the 12ga Romex prewire for the 2nd AC.

So looking at AC options that have an electrical requirement of a 15A breaker, instead of 20A.
The OP is looking to free up a 20 amp breaker to do a project with. Moving the pre-wired 2nd AC to the existing 15 amp breaker. I am simply suggesting replacing the existing 15 amp (to be abandoned) with a 20 amp to do the project on. the OP could also go to slim (1/2 space breakers).
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Old 01-28-2023, 10:01 AM   #25
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OP you are aware you can replace a standard breaker with a double breaker, right? This could give you an extra circuit. Maybe I don't understand your needs.
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Old 01-29-2023, 04:59 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by jasin1 View Post
....

the 15 amp models are listed as n/a on BTUs because it is likely a very small capacity…if you look at the comparable amp draws / cooling capacity you will see one has 11000 btus and a higher amp draw…i’m thinking these 15 amp models are about 6000 btus which is 1/2 ton of cooling…pretty small

i’d get the 20 amp model and if you need to,get the soft start…could get creative possibly and wire in a time delay that delays one unit by five minutes (or random like below) so both units could never start at the same time when boondocking as most of the amps are used at startup…would have to have one for each unit…possibly just one on one unit, i’d have to look into it more
Actually all the 15A circuit protection models I documented elsewhere as 11-11k I believe they have build in softstart. Anyways I'm just of the mindset that I only need 11k or so to cool an 8x8 space "when I need to". So in my head I'm looking for 15A units and asked the question that way. I could have said does anyone know of 10-11k units that only require 15A breakers (service protection in these installation guides)
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Old 01-29-2023, 05:50 AM   #27
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First thanks for all the replies...I didn't get into the "top secret" project :-) since it really wasn't related other than I'm going to use another slot in the power center.

You are all correct/accurate I could just plop in a 20A breaker. I would do this on my house as long as it was a new circuit or I can verify that 12ga wiring was in place. (I have a lot of circuits in my main house that are 15A but they used 12ga wire throughout the house...cost prohibitive today)

I've found the opposite to be true for the two trailers I've owned. For instance, I don't think there is one outlet except for the microwave that is a 20A/12ga circuit. All others are 15A breakers/14ga romex. I have a problem with this as you shouldn't find this in a house for kitchens and bathrooms and I cringe when I read of people plugging in toasters, electric heaters, etc in their trailers. The only place I deviate from my self imposed restrictions is my wife and hairdryer/hair iron. So for the trailer I try to have the breaker represent the device there really is no reason for it and the suggestion of the 20A breaker replacement is probably the way to go. This 2nd AC would only be used when hooked up and I want to ensure that I can run both ACs on a 30A service. Somewhat like going through the exercise of how to run the AC on a 20A service.

As it is we "do not" boondock, but we do all the following:

1. Don't run the AC but live off the solar/inverter....I have not used my converter when the trailer is at the house, since installing the solar.
2. Run the AC on a 20A circuit (both at the house with a proper extension cord as well as a small generator).
3. 20-30% of the places we stay only have 30A service
4. Full 50A hookup

The first two either at the house or staying at a harvest host, etc.

Depending on the situation I always shutdown breakers and only have what I want/need ON so that I don't run into a situation where the AC is not running, someone plugs in something or the converter is on and the AC kicks on...etc

Last related to this is the "other project". It basically is the proper tie in of my inverter into the trailer. In a nutshell the inverter circuit is a 15A circuit that will be 'abandoned' or 'replaced' with a 20A circuit breaker. New Romex (12GA) is already run to the inverter. Today there are 3-4 plugs that are wired to the output of the inverter and the inverter is programmed to basically cutoff at anything higher than a 15A load when running (it produces 2000W/20A continuous). This will feed a subpanel with 2 15A breakers and "both sides" of the original 14ga/15A inverter circuit will be utilized on the load side, one to energize the 3-4 outlets as it does today and the other will energize the other 3-4 outlets on the other side of the trailer. So whether the power is from the inverter or the power center being passed through, the wire is protected. The 'tie in' hasn't been completed.

Today it is protected only when the unit is hooked up and through "software" when the inverter is running and my knowledge of what is plugged in.

Why? Boils down to 2 reasons. Really we don't use a lot of multiple electric devices at once, but it really is the convenience due to the location of the plug and the activity - example my wife is sick of stepping over the extension cord when I'm charging/using my laptop. Or using the extension cord for the bathroom use of a hair dryer. The other is that we actually don't have to transfer items from the outside kitchen fridge to the inside fridge as the inverter could be used between hookups.
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Old 01-29-2023, 05:58 AM   #28
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Summary: I've found the following 11k ish units that have documentation of a 15A (+) breaker requirement there maybe others???

Mach 1 48000 series
Brisk Air II specific models - B59530, 459530, 459530A, 640310
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Old 02-03-2023, 06:53 AM   #29
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Has anyone tried using an AC soft start device? Describe here:


https://www.arlingtonairconditioningheating.com/what-is-a-soft-start-air-conditioner/#Is_a_soft_start_air_conditioner_more_effective_th an_VFDs
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Old 02-04-2023, 10:37 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by DDuncan51 View Post

Yes I have done this on a 13.5 and 15k units (two different trailers). It has allowed me to use the AC on a Champion 2500W duel fuel generator when I've needed to.
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Old 02-04-2023, 11:25 AM   #31
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I installed a MicroAir soft start last year and has been great. Aside from the obvious benefit of the AC being able to start and run on a lower amp circuit and/or generator (I run on a Generac GP3000i), the compressor cycling on and off while on shore power is almost imperceptible
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Old 04-25-2023, 01:32 PM   #32
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Well I pulled the trigger on purchasing the Dometic B59530 (Brisk II high efficiency) since it was on sale. The specs say it pulls 8.6amps. Will add a softstart and install when we get home. In out trailer we have a single 15K Domestic which works fine but the ductwork to the rear bedroom does not deliver enough cold air in the 90degree days.
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