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Old 06-28-2020, 07:08 PM   #1
Johan
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Soft floor 2017 Bullet 308BHS - near front door

I have a Bullet 308BHS with the same soft spot, discovered today. The area that is soft is about4-5 ft wide and 1 to 1.25 ft deep when I stand looking into the front door.
I am leaving on vacation in 2 days, so I have to fix it myself.
I removed/cut the plastic liner/layer are removed the soggy pretend-wood, the polystyrene and the next layer of fake wood up to the vinyl flooring.
Going to put pressure treated wood in there for better support than the foam.


Fixing is not the problem, however, where did the water come in ??



It looks fine around the front door and front window, but the soft spot is centered around the rightmost side of the door, the side with the hinges.
Any tips on where I can apply extra sealant to not let this happen again ?
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Old 06-28-2020, 07:39 PM   #2
busterbrown
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I also own a 2017 308BHS. None of the entry or perimeter flooring is soft. I check it very regularly. I have read that the passthrough frame screws on some of the Bullets were installed on the outside of the weather seal. That has cause water to cascade down to the flooring below the master bedroom (passenger side) window and towards the main entry door.

I'd also look at the weather seal on the entry door itself and make sure the bottom threshold is doing it's job.

Also, inspect the roof seams along the gutter as they tend to show premature cracking in the membrane as it folds down in that channel. I've already applied Dicor non-sag sealant around the entire perimeter. Cracked sealant of TPO membrane could allow water to run down between the filon and interior wall and collect on the entry way flooring. It's worth a shot investigating.

Let us know what you find. The 2018-2020 Bullets are plagued with the dreaded "slam latch" debacle. I'm not sure if your coach was equipped with them. Mine isn't.

Good luck.
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Old 06-29-2020, 10:42 AM   #3
tdbohannon
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Curious to hear about your floor repair method. I’m deep in my bathroom floor right now due to a toilet seal leak
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Old 06-29-2020, 01:47 PM   #4
Johan
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To tdbohannon:
Here is a photo of the 2x10 that I cut into proper lengths. I removed the polystyrene and inserted the pressure treated wood. I drilled holes to act as weep holes, this way at least it would drain to the bottom if it gets into the TOP layers, which it does, and I for the life of me, cannot find the leak.


To busterbrown:
I sealed on the outside, but the door and window looks fine. I attach a photo of how it looks on the inside, when I removed the flashing around the door. The door seals well and there is not water coming in through there, however, water seeps to where the drill bit is pointing.


When I look underneath, you can see the rusty bolt. The flooring above it is wet, right in line with that bolt.
On the inside, that is where the water is also collecting,even after a little bit of rain as today.
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Old 06-29-2020, 02:20 PM   #5
Johan
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I looked at thee locations in addition to around the door and window.
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593469088


Location 1
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593469088


Location 2
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593469088


Do not see how the water can enter to the inside to the top of the floor.
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:11 PM   #6
Johan
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Hi busterbrown


You mentioned:
"Cracked sealant of TPO membrane could allow water to run down between the filon and interior wall and collect on the entry way flooring"


Few questions.
What is the TPO membrane.
What is filon, is that the outer wall ?
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:11 PM   #7
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This wont help with your repair or answer your question but I would reach out to Keystone. Sounds like a poor answer but here is why I suggest it. The Passports and Bullets have eerily similar issues with water near the hinge side of the entry door. They must know the cause. This thread (https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...d.php?p=364908) helped me in learning how prevalent the issue is among Keystone owners. I am in the same boat where I sealed every seam but I could not stop nor find the water source. My dealer would not fix it and suggested I contact Keystone immediately because they also said "this is a known issue". (Keystone is doing the repair under warranty) They have not shared the root cause with me as of yet, but hopefully they will help you identify how to seal it.


If you have not done so already, I also suggest feeling the underside of the trailer for any soft spots or bubbles. From inside the trailer the only soft spot was just right of the entry door but once I felt the Darcor underneath I found floor damage under the front baggage doors, and all along the back wall. Those areas showed no signs of damage from above.
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Old 06-29-2020, 05:10 PM   #8
Johan
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So far it seems this is the only spot, around the hinge side of the door.
2 feet to the right and 2 feet to the left.
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:37 PM   #9
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I believe it is the door and frame that is the issue. My 2019 leaked and there were small gaps in the door construction. I believe it got into the floor through the sill by the joint where it meets the jamb. The photo is the bottom hinge side of my front door. The door is constructed differently on my 2020.Click image for larger version

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Old 06-29-2020, 07:45 PM   #10
Johan
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Hi. As far as I know, it should be ok if water gets into the door frame, since it has weep holes at the bottom.
But yes, that is assuming that the jamb seals properly against the sill.
Mine did not, or at least I think it did not, because the jamb would move a bit if the door was sprung open, basically breaking the seal.
I inserted a screw from inside and that made all the difference for movement.
Then I sealed the jamb to the sill.
I think it still gets wet though (we will see tomorrow if it rains again or I apply water).
Also, it does not get wet between the sill (where the arrow is pointing) and to the left. It gets wet to where the drill tip is pointing. However, it could be that it comes from the jamb/sill leak, flows down unto the plastic layer, then seeps to the left.
What is interesting is that the panel (next to the elongated hole I drilled) gets wet, from where it touches the floor and up for a bit (4-5 inches) - capillary action perhaps ?

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Old 06-30-2020, 04:56 AM   #11
Johan
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Last night and this morning it mist rains. There is just a little bit of drip from the gutter. There is not not enough rain to make the gutter overflow.
The inside was dry last night (because of the de-humidifier running) so it was ideal to check.
It got wet again. It's as if the panel next to the door soaked up some water again. I know for a fact it did not come via the door, door frame, window or window frame.
Inspecting the camper, I hardly get wet because of how light mist the rain is.
So I got up on the ladder to see if there is water collecting anywhere.
In the picture below is the only standing pool of water I could see. This is the front right of the camper (side with main entrance door)
The storage cabinet under the bed is bone dry, and the floor of the storage cabinet is dry as well ?? So if its coming from the roof at that spot, how would it go down, go towards the door, not making anything else wet and only affect around the entrance area and 1 foot into the bedroom ?



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Old 06-30-2020, 05:10 AM   #12
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"how would it go down, and only affect around the entrance area ?"

Water, like electricity, air, and a kid in college, will take the path of least resistance. A roof leak can drip feet away from it's entry point if it runs along the sheathing or rafter.. If water is flowing inside a wall gravity will pull it straight down until it encounters an obstruction. Then it would pool until it gets to a level where there's another path down. Think of those glass walled ant farms where they tunnel in different directions.
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Old 06-30-2020, 05:24 AM   #13
Johan
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Guess I can clean that area with a brush and spray it with some sealant and hope that it was there?
The Camper is a 2018 model (bought in 2017) so the putty is still soft. I do not see any cracks or anything.
Can I put that sealant tape over it, or do I have to remove the putty first ?
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Old 06-30-2020, 06:26 AM   #14
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One potential source of water intrusion that hasn't been identified yet in this thread (although Johan was close with #2 in a post) is the awning rail. When the trailer was manufactured, the awning rail was installed with clay/butyl putty tape behind it. During the years since, every time the awning is open and the wind "bucks or billows the awning" the fabric pulls on that awning rail. It doesn't take much to loosen the screws holding it in place and once there's a "little separation between the FILON and the awning rail, there's a "direct path for leaks into the FILON and luan backing. Once the luan gets wet, like a sponge, it wicks straight down to the floor.

So, get on a ladder, check the top of the awning rail for sealant, if you see clay putty tape, consider removing the entire awning rail to replace with butyl putty tape and check all the screws for evidence of rust and to be sure they're tight.
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Old 06-30-2020, 07:50 AM   #15
Johan
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It appears the gutter and the narrow c-channel into which the awning slides, are all part of the same aluminium profile.
Not sure how the rubber material from the roof attaches to it?

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593521377


The messy spray-job (Flex Seal Spray) is what I did earlier today while it was still wet and raining lightly, trying to see if it makes a difference.
Will redo it on a sunny day if it makes a difference, and then it will dry better and I can take my time.
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593531941
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:37 AM   #16
Johan
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So basically I am saying, I do not think I can take off the awning rail (since it's not a separate rail). Doing that will remove the gutter and loosen the rubber roof material stretched over the top.
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:46 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan View Post
It appears the gutter and the narrow c-channel into which the awning slides, are all part of the same aluminium profile.
Not sure how the rubber material from the roof attaches to it?

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593521377


The messy spray-job (Flex Seal Spray) is what I did earlier today while it was still wet and raining lightly, trying to see if it makes a difference.
Will redo it on a sunny day if it makes a difference,
and then it will dry better and I can take my time.
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593531941
Flex Seal Spray is NOT an approved TPO seam sealant. Using it will probably void your Alpha Systems warranty on the TPO membrane. I've used Flex Seal on a number of "around the house seal jobs" like the rain gutters, the vinyl siding gaps, surface cracks in the concrete foundation. In every case, the Flex Seal either didn't stop the leak or fell away/didn't adhere to the siding or concrete. I'd call it an inferior product for TPO roofing and I wouldn't use it on my trailer, even in an emergency... YMMV.

If I were you, I'd clean the Flex Seal off the TPO, use either DICOR sealant or Alpha Systems sealant which are specifically formulated to adhere to and seal the TPO material.
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:03 AM   #18
Johan
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Here is my attempt to draw the profile.

Also, DICOR, is that the stuff that looks like putty or is it some kind of tape product. I want to get away from the putty stuff, since I do not know if it seals properly ? Or, maybe it does seal and the water is not leaking from above ?
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Old 06-30-2020, 11:30 AM   #19
Johan
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Ok. The sun came out. Got on the ladder and scraped of the flex seal (what a pain) some places it stuck ok, but on places where there were other sealant, it came off as a loose skin.
Anyway, after that, I popped out the seal (the section in blue in the previous picture) hiding the screws.
I could immediately see it was wet in there, maybe JRTJH is on to something.

That moisture there is normal I think, because the blue ribbon covering the screws is not made to seal at the top and bottom, it's made to cover the screws.

I sealed around each screw with proflex.
I also noticed that at 2 locations, there were no screws inserted in the pre-drilled holes of the profile. This is ok, because no holes were drilled into the camper, and I could see some of the plastic or robber seal behind it being pressed out the tiny hole because of the pressure of the gutter against the camper wall, indicating the rail/gutter was on tight and they did seal behind it.

It was in 2 sections though, so where they met I added some extra proflex.


Then at the top of it where it connects with the rubber roof, I also sealed a seam, front to back. The proflex sticks much better and is clear.
Thinks it's going to rain tomorrow or later tonight.

Will give an update.
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Old 06-30-2020, 01:01 PM   #20
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In your second photo, with the wiring inside a loom above the side arm of your awning, it looks like there is a hole in the sealant between the wire loom and the top of the awning arm. If there is a hole there AND that hole extends to the top of the awning side arm attachment, it can act as a funnel to channel water directly under the awning side rail and straight down to the big hole in your trailer sidewall where those wires and the awning motor wires go into the trailer. If your door is directly under that end of the awning and beside the awning rail, that "hole in the sealant" may be a source of water intrusion directly to the edge of the door frame and the soft floor area.
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