5th wheel towing question

[ewbldavis]

Listen...I'm all for safety. I'd never tow this unit with a half-ton (or any 5er for that matter). I just don't beat it into folks that you need a 1-ton dually for anything over 30ft or 8000#. I also believe ANYONE with a 2500 diesel and a toy hauler is probably overloaded. Diesels belong in 1-ton trucks.

You can think what you want about me - but for OP to believe 3000# of payload on a Ram 2500 gasser is insufficient for the 9400# (actually my empty sticker is 9300#) 32BHS that has a loaded pin weight of less than 2000# is obsurd.

Maybe I need a break - but I've been on several forums, and I've never seen where someone can ask about a sewer hose and if the signature truck isn't up to the site moderators beliefs, it turns into a complete pile about how you are putting yourself and others at risks.

Best wishes to OP - the 32BHS is an awesome unit, and frankly you have plenty of truck for it.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by ewbldavis

Listen...I'm all for safety. I'd never tow this unit with a half-ton (or any 5er for that matter). I just don't beat it into folks that you need a 1-ton dually for anything over 30ft or 8000#. I also believe ANYONE with a 2500 diesel and a toy hauler is probably overloaded. Diesels belong in 1-ton trucks.

You can think what you want about me - but for OP to believe 3000# of payload on a Ram 2500 gasser is insufficient for the 9400# (actually my empty sticker is 9300#) 32BHS that has a loaded pin weight of less than 2000# is obsurd.

Maybe I need a break - but I've been on several forums, and I've never seen where someone can ask about a sewer hose and if the signature truck isn't up to the site moderators beliefs, it turns into a complete pile about how you are putting yourself and others at risks.

Best wishes to OP - the 32BHS is an awesome unit, and frankly you have plenty of truck for it.

Unlike your reference, the OP didn't ask about a sewer hose OR have his vehicle in his signature. He simply asked for towing/weight advise. If you actually read the thread the allegations you make simply didn't happen.

Unlike you, I have had a truck with in excess of 3k payload and I KNOW that the gvw of the prospective trailer in question is too much for the OP's truck - not guessing. The numbers always tell the story - you lost yours apparently.

Me thinks the the way you attack anyone advising about following safe weight guidelines is because you don't and want to defend that in some way. The OP has 2 small children, and as I said before, telling someone who doesn't know "hey, go with it....I do" isn't safe or prudent. ALL these comments, and the ones before, pertain to what the OP asked - nothing more. And frankly, no, the OP doesn't have "plenty" of truck for the trailer and be safe - from experience.

[Gegrad]

Originally Posted by ewbldavis

Listen...I'm all for safety. I'd never tow this unit with a half-ton (or any 5er for that matter). I just don't beat it into folks that you need a 1-ton dually for anything over 30ft or 8000#. I also believe ANYONE with a 2500 diesel and a toy hauler is probably overloaded. Diesels belong in 1-ton trucks.

You can think what you want about me - but for OP to believe 3000# of payload on a Ram 2500 gasser is insufficient for the 9400# (actually my empty sticker is 9300#) 32BHS that has a loaded pin weight of less than 2000# is obsurd.

Maybe I need a break - but I've been on several forums, and I've never seen where someone can ask about a sewer hose and if the signature truck isn't up to the site moderators beliefs, it turns into a complete pile about how you are putting yourself and others at risks.

Best wishes to OP - the 32BHS is an awesome unit, and frankly you have plenty of truck for it.

Originally Posted by sourdough

Unlike your reference, the OP didn't ask about a sewer hose OR have his vehicle in his signature. He simply asked for towing/weight advise. If you actually read the thread the allegations you make simply didn't happen.

Unlike you, I have had a truck with in excess of 3k payload and I KNOW that the gvw of the prospective trailer in question is too much for the OP's truck - not guessing. The numbers always tell the story - you lost yours apparently.

Me thinks the the way you attack anyone advising about following safe weight guidelines is because you don't and want to defend that in some way. The OP has 2 small children, and as I said before, telling someone who doesn't know "hey, go with it....I do" isn't safe or prudent. ALL these comments, and the ones before, pertain to what the OP asked - nothing more. And frankly, no, the OP doesn't have "plenty" of truck for the trailer and be safe - from experience.

As is often the case, you can both be correct. The Cougar weighs 9225 empty and has a massive carrying capacity (for a non toy hauler) of 2208 lbs.

If the OP doesn't plan to boondock and considers what he puts in it, he may not come anywhere close to loading it up. As I mentioned before, I carry around 700-750 lbs of stuff in mine. If the OP is similar to me he would have a trailer weighing no more than 10,200 lbs, allowing for a battery and propane. In that case, Eddy would be correct and the OP would have plenty of truck with room to spare.

If, however, the OP plans to boondock for a week at a time, carry a massive generator, 8 batteries, and fully use all 2208 lbs of cargo, then Danny is correct and the OP does not have enough truck. Once again, the answer to the question is answered by how the OP intends to camp, with the caveat that he would be limited to one style of camping.

[sourdough]

I don't want to get into bouncing this stuff around but trying to imply that a family with 2 small children is going to travel with 750lbs. of "stuff" IN THE TRAILER for a week vacation is very optimistic if not unrealistic. To then think there is nothing going into the bed of the truck for the kids, tools, ice chests, misc. - I've never done it nor seen anyone.....none of the hundreds + I look at all the time do it either. There is generally a WAY, of some kind, to rationalize putting yourself into a potentially unsafe position. If it's you, go for it. If you advocate that for someone else....a family with 2 small children that's asking for help; what the heck?? Sometimes I think I'm the only one that's ever been nearly killed by doing dumb stuff.

[Camp CA]

RedBull..............you will be fine. I towed 12,000 and 14,000 lb GVWR fifth wheel trailers for 15 years with a 2002 F250 crew cab 7.3 diesel SRW. Just upgraded to a newer F350 crew cab DRW which resulted in my wife convincing me to buy a 16,600 lb GVWR trailer.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by Camp CA

RedBull..............you will be fine. I towed 12,000 and 14,000 lb GVWR fifth wheel trailers for 15 years with a 2002 F250 crew cab 7.3 diesel SRW. Just upgraded to a newer F350 crew cab DRW which resulted in my wife convincing me to buy a 16,600 lb GVWR trailer.

Which was most likely extremely overloaded.

[MarkEHansen]

We should try to remember that the tow vehicle must be capable of more than just "sunny day" towing. The fact that a tow vehicle towed overloaded without incident does not prove it is a capable tow vehicle.

Consider what might happen in the event of an unexpected event, like a tire failure or an animal jumping onto the road in your path requiring that you do emergency braking/swerving, etc.

The fact that one has been lucky isn't proof that others would be "okay". If you are overloaded, you are operating in dangerous territory. We should never be coaching others to do the same.

[CaptnJohn]

Many years ago I pulled a nearly 12,000# boat with a Ford Ranger. That was just as stupid as what some say they are doing today.

[MarkEHansen]

I pulled overloaded when I was younger as well - out of ignorance (mostly). Perhaps I was more risk-averse when I was younger too. I look back at some of that and just consider how lucky I was that nothing serious happened.

[Lymey]

I would like to know how they figure the Cougar 32BHS at 9800 lbs. is a “half ton” anything? Just wondering!!

[MarkEHansen]

It's marketing magic!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Lymey

I would like to know how they figure the Cougar 32BHS at 9800 lbs. is a “half ton” anything? Just wondering!!

Probably the same way Ford classifies a truck weighing 7850 pounds (GVW) with a 3325 pound payload as a "half ton truck"... NOWHERE is there anything rated at 1,000 pounds (which is a half ton)...

It's the same way Keystone advertised XLite and the early Montana High Country trailers that incorporated "Helium technology" to reduce up to 1500 pounds of weight while maintaining the same level of livability.... They didn't mention that the 3/8" floor "might not last" as long as that 7/8" strand board floor in the "heavier model" or that the 3" dinette cushion wasn't as comfortable as the 5" or that the 6" queen size mattress would "kill your back" much faster than the 11" in the "heavy model trailers"...

[skmct]

I think it's really sad that the op has a 3/4 ton truck .wants to buy a fithwheel heads to a dealer looking at 1/2 ton towables. Then finds out he has to have a 1 ton truck to tow a 1/2ton towable. Something needs to be done about how these manufacturers are marketing rvs. Our boys in Washington are spending a lot of time and money on everything but protecting consumers.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Camp CA

RedBull..............you will be fine. I towed 12,000 and 14,000 lb GVWR fifth wheel trailers for 15 years with a 2002 F250 crew cab 7.3 diesel SRW. Just upgraded to a newer F350 crew cab DRW which resulted in my wife convincing me to buy a 16,600 lb GVWR trailer.

For lack of a better term, there seems to be two distinct 'sides' in these weight arguments. Those that have been there, done that, such as Camp CA above, and those that 'follow the science' (to use the popular vernacular) and look at stated limits and do the math to ensure they do not exceed manufacturer recommendations.

IMHO, anyone can roll the dice and get away with something for a period of time. It doesn't mean they aren't one quick panic stop away from disaster. I am admittedly new to the towing game but don't see why, once explained and understood, anyone would not follow the recommendations (Payload, GVWR, GAWR, GCWR etc.) of the manufacturer.

Just because somebody exceeded one or more of these limitations and got away with it doesn't make it appropriate or prudent to do so. These limits are there for a reason.

It seems to me that the strongest arguments made against following them are made primarily by those exceeding them.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by markcee

For lack of a better term, there seems to be two distinct 'sides' in these weight arguments. Those that have been there, done that, such as Camp CA above, and those that 'follow the science' (to use the popular vernacular) and look at stated limits and do the math to ensure they do not exceed manufacturer recommendations.

IMHO, anyone can roll the dice and get away with something for a period of time. It doesn't mean they aren't one quick panic stop away from disaster. I am admittedly new to the towing game but don't see why, once explained and understood, anyone would not follow the recommendations (Payload, GVWR, GAWR, GCWR etc.) of the manufacturer.

Just because somebody exceeded one or more of these limitations and got away with it doesn't make it appropriate or prudent to do so. These limits are there for a reason.

It seems to me that the strongest arguments made against following them are made primarily by those exceeding them.

Well said!
The part I like is when you said “ once explained and understood”.... I couldn’t enjoy my trip planning anymore knowing how unsafe my setup was.. it kept me up at night trying to justify keeping my old truck ..I even poured through other forums looking for posts that would back me up... in the end I’m much happier now with my new truck and when we are on vacation if my wife finds something in an antique shop she wants to bring home I don’t have to say “ nope I already had to leave the grill and bikes at home because we don’t have the payload capacity”..
And it wasn’t just an arbitrary number I was over... I could FEEL the difference between my old and new truck...it was fine on a straight road but when I hit a big dip or bridge transition it really got out of control for a moment

[JRTJH]

In addition to the previous post (#34), "back when" or "when I started towing trailers" was also at a time in American and Canadian history when the roads were significantly less crowded and "back when" the only person you were likely to harm was yourself. I well remember hitch-hiking on US 51, the main highway between New Orleans and Chicago to get to my part time job 4 miles away in town. Many were the days I wouldn't be passed by any truck or car for the entire trip. Now, it's "bumper to bumper traffic all day long"... Same with "rush hour traffic"... I remember when you could actually "drive through Atlanta" without seeing anything other than "usual traffic", the same as any other town. Same with Dallas/FT Worth, Houston, Detroit, Chicago... Try it these days....

When I learned to ride a motorcycle, the only "danger" was the telephone pole I might run up if I ran off the road... Now, the "ever present danger" of riding a MC runs from that same telephone pole to the "dumb butts" that actually try to see how close they can get to you without scratching their car (or daddy's car)...

The point is, "having done it years ago" when few people were potentially going to be affected and doing it now, with bumper to bumper speeding/slamming on brakes to avoid a collision" Well, it's a "night and day difference" in how many people could be affected by being stupid and also a night and day difference in how many lawyers are going to be requesting the police report..... Used to be "exchange phone numbers and insurance information" Now, it's almost a certainty you'll receive a summons to appear in court if anyone was injured (or can claim their old football injury was worsened by your actions)....

In other words, what we used to do without thinking twice about it simply isn't as "innocent" as our past would lead you to wish for....

If you doubt things are different now, just count the number of tags on a 6' extension cord... Used to be people were smart enough to use one without involving more labels than feet of cord to warn us about the ever-present dangers" in even looking at an extension cord....

[JYR]

Hi I got tired of all the towing do’s and dont’s and just bought a 2021 F450 Dually Limited edition. For my 2020 Jayco 319 MLOK. And feel so much better knowing that I don’t have to worry about payload or any other crap. Just a much better peace of mind for me.

[RedBull]

Lucky you!! I wish I had that option, but I'm stuck with my brand new Ram 2500 6.4 and just to be on safe side I'm looking now at some smaller 5Ws, something like 8K dry, 10K gross.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RedBull

Lucky you!! I wish I had that option, but I'm stuck with my brand new Ram 2500 6.4 and just to be on safe side I'm looking now at some smaller 5Ws, something like 8K dry, 10K gross.

I've got a 7200 pound dry, 10K gross fifth wheel and a F250 diesel. My payload is right at 2200 pounds and every trip is "at max GVW". You should have almost 1000 pounds more than I do which will make your camping trips much less "loaded right to the edge".....

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RedBull

Lucky you!! I wish I had that option, but I'm stuck with my brand new Ram 2500 6.4 and just to be on safe side I'm looking now at some smaller 5Ws, something like 8K dry, 10K gross.

RedBull if I missed this somewhere I apologize up front; why are you looking at 5th wheels specifically? I've been looking through floorplans and specs and seems the BH floorplan in a 5th kicks up the weight pretty good.

You probably know this but a regular TT will drop that tongue/pin weight by about 10% which then adds right back to available payload. I've not looked into those floorplans but seemingly it would give you more options.

I would not recommend a TT for full time living with youngsters but I get the sense this is for vacations and such. I never had a problem with a TT for those kinds of activities. You might give it some thought if you haven't.

That new 3/4 6.4 3.73 you have is a great truck....I had one as I said and loved it. It just has its limitations especially when you bring the kids into the picture and what they will want to take.