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Old 09-07-2019, 08:19 AM   #41
travelin texans
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I'm planning to pick up one of those as soon as I cross paths with an appropriate supply house on this trip. That will solve the problem if it's coming in from my hose. If the sediment is coming from some factory deposit already in my trailer's plumbing system, then I'm gonna have to do something else.
The one shown is at Walmart, the "appropriate supply house" will just charge 3 times as much.
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Old 09-07-2019, 08:24 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
The one shown is at Walmart, the "appropriate supply house" will just charge 3 times as much.


Right now I have nowhere for them to ship it. I just got a mailer from camping world this morning and they happen to have that exact unit on sale for about $19, and I'll be crossing paths with one of those in two days.
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Old 09-07-2019, 08:25 AM   #43
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A picture of the valve and filter I installed. I had to remove Pex pipe to install.


That's a lot smaller than I thought it was. I'll keep that in mind.
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:33 PM   #44
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I know it seems impossible but,.... as I stated before the material that stops up the valve looks EXACTLY like what I clean out of the hot water tank when I flush it during an anode change. Exactly the same as your pictures. Question of the day is,... how could the hot water (with sediment) get into the cold water supply line to the toilet?????? BTW: My HWT and toilet are only 3 ft apart location wise.
I investigated this today, after noticing that the water that poured out when I detached the toilet feed this evening was much warmer than I would have expected.

My blue pipe (cold) comes up from the floor, immediately tees to the toilet on the other side of the wall, then enters the water heater. So if the silt is originating from the main RV feed line, it's no puzzle that it shows up in both places.

If I do end up having to install that mini-filter, I believe I will install it in the heater cavity as it comes out of the floor. That way, it will filter the water heater, the toilet, and maybe even the other faucets -- plus, it would be a lot more convenient to service it from the roomy entranceway instead of contorting my bulk down in the lav to get behind a toilet that may be in need of a flush.

I'm getting really good at clearing this clog every night as we set up camp. I've found the ideal tools are ear hygiene tools -- a tiny plastic scraper spoon to get out the bulk of the clog, and an irrigation squeeze bulb to flush the rest off the screen.

The more I consider water hose degradation as a source, the less probable it seems. First, the silt is definitely some granular mineral; second, I always blow a few gallons through the hose before attaching it to the RV, so there wouldn't be anywhere near as much remaining as I've been scooping out every stop.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:13 AM   #45
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I've never seen a one way valve installed in the cold water inlet. The only "one way valve" is the one installed at the top "hot water outlet" on the water heater.

As for your "silt problem" I don't think it's hot water related. There's no mixing valve that would combine the hot water and the cold water that flows to the toilet. I can't explain why you're having problems with clogging and it doesn't make any "rational sense" that it would keep occurring....]
It didn't make any sense to me either until I opened up the access port and realized that the cold water feed for the water heater tees to the toilet on the way, with only about five inches of pipe between them. I'm speculating that with the road motion, the sediment in the tank somehow gets jostled into the cold water feed line in the absence of a check valve, and immediately gets sucked into the toilet the first time we try to use it on the road.

I guess I need to figure out how to flush the sediment out of the hot water heater while I'm on the road, and see if that solves our problem, because it is jamming up absolutely every stop.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:55 AM   #46
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The easiest way to flush the water heater is to remove the anode rod, pull the pin on the pressure relief valve and "let 'er fly"....

DON'T DO IT WHILE THE WATER HEATER IS FILLED WITH HOT WATER !!!!!

Either turn the water heater off and let it cool or turn it off and run hot water at a faucet until the water is lukewarm or cold.

If you do remove the anode rod, make sure you have Teflon tape to prep the threads before you reinstall the anode. Any hardware store will have it in stock and I always keep a roll in the trailer as it's the easiest way to repair a leaking fitting by simply wrapping the threads with Teflon tape.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:06 AM   #47
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It didn't make any sense to me either until I opened up the access port and realized that the cold water feed for the water heater tees to the toilet on the way, with only about five inches of pipe between them. I'm speculating that with the road motion, the sediment in the tank somehow gets jostled into the cold water feed line in the absence of a check valve, and immediately gets sucked into the toilet the first time we try to use it on the road.

I guess I need to figure out how to flush the sediment out of the hot water heater while I'm on the road, and see if that solves our problem, because it is jamming up absolutely every stop.
If you have a Suburban water heater you need to check the anode a couple times a year.
To do so, turn off wh & let it cool down a while, pull the rod (the 1 1/16" plug on the bottom), drain & flush the tank. If the rod is not about the size of your index finger & about 10" long, replace it. It will be corroded white & scaly, but if diameter & length are good can be wire brushed & reused. They make a long nozzle to put on your hose to reach in & flush the tank out.
If you have an Atwood water heater there's no anode, just open the petcock & drain.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:18 AM   #48
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It didn't make any sense to me either until I opened up the access port and realized that the cold water feed for the water heater tees to the toilet on the way, with only about five inches of pipe between them. I'm speculating that with the road motion, the sediment in the tank somehow gets jostled into the cold water feed line in the absence of a check valve, and immediately gets sucked into the toilet the first time we try to use it on the road.

I guess I need to figure out how to flush the sediment out of the hot water heater while I'm on the road, and see if that solves our problem, because it is jamming up absolutely every stop.
Hi,

Since you and I both have a vested interest in this problem let me run this possibility by you.

With the water system hooked up (city water or with a primed pump) the system is pressurized to around 45 psi.... the naturally occurring air pocket floating in the top of the hot water tank is compressed to the same 45 psi level.

Now.... If you push the toilet pedal to flush it,... The compressed air pocket will expand and will force water out of the tank through the normal cold water input to the tank straight to the toilet via the short pex connection.... Carrying with it sediment from the tank. This would only occur when city water is disconnected and/ or pump is off.

Before I hit the road one of the last things I do is release the water in the toilet bowl.... I was always amazed at the amount of water that would flow even when pump is off and city water is not connected.... the pressure must be coming partly from the air balloon in the hot water tank.

Opinions????????
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:36 AM   #49
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That's a good thought. This hose has never been used with bleach, and is relatively new out-of-the-box, but it was shelved in the box for some years in the garage. There is a pinch point at one end where it likes to fold when stored, and it's not inconceivable that the wall could be disintegrating in that area, though I don't understand why the debris would be crystalline. Next chance I get, I will blow the hose out through a black nylon stocking and see if anything interesting shows up.
Sounds like a hard water issue. Do you have a water softener?
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:48 AM   #50
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Now.... If you push the toilet pedal to flush it,... The compressed air pocket will expand and will force water out of the tank through the normal cold water input to the tank straight to the toilet via the short pex connection.... Carrying with it sediment from the tank. This would only occur when city water is disconnected and/ or pump is off.

It certainly sounds like a logical possibility. One question would be how I could have accumulated so much mineral sediment in the hot water heater when I have only had the rig for one year and it's only on its second trip. That sounds unreasonable. Another would be why the sediment finds its way only to the cold water line but not the hot water line (I don't remember the cold water line being on the bottom and the hot on top, but I can check it again.)

I'm willing to at least do an inspection and flush. If I find the water heater full of the same sediment, and the cold line near the bottom, I will definitely consider putting a mini filter right at the cold water inlet.
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:30 PM   #51
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Hi,

Since you and I both have a vested interest in this problem let me run this possibility by you.

With the water system hooked up (city water or with a primed pump) the system is pressurized to around 45 psi.... the naturally occurring air pocket floating in the top of the hot water tank is compressed to the same 45 psi level.

Now.... If you push the toilet pedal to flush it,... The compressed air pocket will expand and will force water out of the tank through the normal cold water input to the tank straight to the toilet via the short pex connection.... Carrying with it sediment from the tank. This would only occur when city water is disconnected and/ or pump is off.

Before I hit the road one of the last things I do is release the water in the toilet bowl.... I was always amazed at the amount of water that would flow even when pump is off and city water is not connected.... the pressure must be coming partly from the air balloon in the hot water tank.

Opinions????????
I would not drain the toilet bowl before traveling!! That bowl full of water is only thing keeping the seal from releasing very smelly gases from your black tank into the RV. Yes I know the tank is vented through the roof, but without water in the bowl covering that tiny rubber seal it's also highly possible it's also vented in the bathroom.
In over 40 years rving I've never had water splash out of the toilet during travel & if it didn't happen going across the worst highways ever in Louisiana it would never happen.
When away from home do you shut the water off to your toilet & drain the bowl/tank in your house, if not why do it in your RV?
If you feel the need to release the pressure off the water lines before travel open a faucet, but leave the water in the toilet.
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:35 AM   #52
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I would not drain the toilet bowl before traveling!! That bowl full of water is only thing keeping the seal from releasing very smelly gases from your black tank into the RV. Yes I know the tank is vented through the roof, but without water in the bowl covering that tiny rubber seal it's also highly possible it's also vented in the bathroom.
In over 40 years rving I've never had water splash out of the toilet during travel & if it didn't happen going across the worst highways ever in Louisiana it would never happen.
When away from home do you shut the water off to your toilet & drain the bowl/tank in your house, if not why do it in your RV?
If you feel the need to release the pressure off the water lines before travel open a faucet, but leave the water in the toilet.
travelin texans: I have to drain the water out of the bowl or else I end up with water all over the bathroom floor from sloshing...... my issue was discussed at length on this forum back in 2013 when I purchased the TT.

The design of the 310 toilet bowl does not have a ridge at the top such as a house toilet. Since the toilet is in the rear of my TT, the "bounciest" part of a TT water sloshes out while traveling..... so draining is a must.

To address your concern with the smell, I seal the toilet bowl with Saran wrap before I drain the bowl thus no noxious smells are emitted to the interior.

As to your question concerning the toilet bowl in my house being drained.... "No"....I don't drain the bowl as my house doesn't bounce down the highway at 60mph!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Happy trails.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:43 AM   #53
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I have exactly the same set up and the same problem. I sloshed on my first trip, now I'm careful to drain all but the merest bit of water before we leave.

I bought the water heater flush out tool yesterday, but haven't had a chance to use it. I'm more and more convinced that my problem is due to water heater sediment backing down the intake line.
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:20 PM   #54
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Haven't flushed the sediment out of the water heater yet, because tonight I'm in a waterless campground, but I did re-inspect the piping, and I am more and more convinced that we have found the mechanism that distributes this sediment. It's completely obvious how sediment could find its way out of the bottom of the water heater and into the toilet, which is the short pipe that goes through the wall at the right hand side. I think the easiest permanent fix here is going to be to put a shark bite check valve at the far end of the blue loop in the photo.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:10 PM   #55
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If you want to verify your hunch, just turn the winterization valve on the bottom connection behind the water heater. That will remove the water heater from the system and you can then determine if the toilet strainer continues to clog. If it does, then it's not the water heater as it would be removed from the plumbing via the "bypass valve (winterization valve)...
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:15 PM   #56
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Yeah, that's a clever test, delivering quick results. I can execute it tomorrow before we start on the next leg of our trip. I already scooped out a full thimble of crud to get the toilet running again after we set up tonight, so I'll have a good baseline. Thanks.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:58 PM   #57
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Well, that did it. I closed the bottom valve, did about 400 miles, used the toilet once on the road and once as soon as we set up camp, and it flowed full force. It's definitely hot water heater sediment migrating backwards out the cold feed.

I'll flush the sediment when I get to our destination, then I'll look at inserting a check valve into the cold feed (it may be a challenge, as that loop is way the heck in there).

Thanks to all who helped narrow this down.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:15 AM   #58
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Well, that did it. I closed the bottom valve, did about 400 miles, used the toilet once on the road and once as soon as we set up camp, and it flowed full force. It's definitely hot water heater sediment migrating backwards out the cold feed.

I'll flush the sediment when I get to our destination, then I'll look at inserting a check valve into the cold feed (it may be a challenge, as that loop is way the heck in there).

Thanks to all who helped narrow this down.
Good job!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-10-2019, 02:08 PM   #59
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So the very day that my check valve arrives in the mail, someone e-mails me a water heater maintenance manual that recommends not putting a check valve on the cold water input because it may cause frequent activations of the heater's overpressure valve as the water heats up.

I considered changing to a screen instead, but figured if the sediment is going to keep going down the fill pipe, and there's enough to clog the toilet intake, there's enough to clog a screen... and either the overpressure valve will trip anyway or the screen will bust. So I'm just going ahead with the check valve. If the overpressure valve turns out to be problematic, I guess I can always install an accumulator on the hot water side.
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Old 11-11-2019, 05:45 AM   #60
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Thanks for the update,... please let us know how this turns out.
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