Maxxis Trailer Tire Warranty

[CWtheMan]

I try to read a new document about tires daily. The tire industry, as a whole, is very dynamic and are always adding new products. They also like to protect themselves from frivolous law suits.

The intent here is not to point a finger at Maxxis in an unkind light. Their new warranty package provides outstanding information which many need to know. If you have the time, read the whole document. I’m sure you’ll gain from it.

http://www.maxxis.com/trailer/trailer-warranty

Got Maxxis Trailer Tires? You might want to read this.

http://www.maxxis.com/trailer/trailer-tire-care-and-faq

[xrated]

And then, there is the Maxxis Tire Load/Inflation chart. Pick your tire size and follow the line across....

http://www.maxxis.com/trailer/traile...nflation-chart

On my particular trailer, I just came off the scales Friday with the trailer loaded just as it is when I travel. Trailer weight...10,380. I run 75 psi cold pressure, which gives me 3260 lbs per tire (ST235/80/16E tires). That is a total load capacity of 13,040 lbs. So I have a reserve of 2660 lbs which works out to 665 lbs per tire.

[canesfan]

It's interesting to see how different tires of the same size and load range/ply have different load limits from different MFGs. My Carlise 235/80R16s are rated at 3520. The Maxxis are rated at 3420.

[notanlines]

Trailer tire warranty? Really? What is one to do; look at the tread, determine that you don't have enough tread left and tow this beast back down and demand a new tire?
From this nine page piece of drivel from Maxxis: (C) Loss of time, inconvenience, loss of use of the trailer, costs of towing or
transportation, and/or incidental or consequential damages of any type or nature is not covered.
Vehicle or trailer damage is not covered.
I feel like I'm reading a warranty from a Stanley claw hammer.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by xrated

And then, there is the Maxxis Tire Load/Inflation chart. Pick your tire size and follow the line across....

http://www.maxxis.com/trailer/traile...nflation-chart

On my particular trailer, I just came off the scales Friday with the trailer loaded just as it is when I travel. Trailer weight...10,380. I run 75 psi cold pressure, which gives me 3260 lbs per tire (ST235/80/16E tires). That is a total load capacity of 13,040 lbs. So I have a reserve of 2660 lbs which works out to 665 lbs per tire.

Actually that's not the intent of any load inflation chart/table. (To each their own).

Call any Maxxis area rep and the answer will be the same. "Follow the recommendations of the vehicle manufacturer." Nowhere in tire industry standards will you find a recommendation to use less tire inflation pressures than what has been recommended on the vehicle's tire placards. (To each their own).

[xrated]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Actually that's not the intent of any load inflation chart/table. (To each their own).

Call any Maxxis area rep and the answer will be the same. "Follow the recommendations of the vehicle manufacturer." Nowhere in tire industry standards will you find a recommendation to use less tire inflation pressures than what has been recommended on the vehicle's tire placards. (To each their own).

You may be correct, I don't know. What I do know is that in the motorcycling world, every motorcycle comes with an inflation sticker for the tires. Then, in the owner's manual, you will find that the recommended pressures that they say is for a fully loaded motorcycle.....rider, passenger, fuel, saddlebags, top bag, any and all accessories....the maximum weight that the motorcycle should be subjected to. Obviously, we are talking two completely different animals here, but it makes senses to NOT inflate a tire to let's say 80psi (the stamped maximum pressure on many of the tires the size of the ones on mine), when a tire that is inflated that much will not have as good of a contact patch on the road (which affects braking of course), will not ride as smoothly as one that is inflated to a psi that is closer to the actual load placed on it. So, in response to your post....to each their own.

And I'm curious, how do you "KNOW" that is not the intent of the Load/Inflation chart? Why would they publish that if that were not the intent? Maximum suggested pressure, to me, is for the people that don't know how to properly check the load that they are hauling, so the manufacturers, to be on the safe side (avoid litigation) tell them to inflate to the maximum, effectively covering their proverbial asses!

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by xrated

Obviously, we are talking two completely different animals here.

Yes, and that's the bottom line.

All Special Trailer tires (ST) are designed for full sidewall pressures.

Next time you're on a Keystone lot, check out the tire placards on all models, then look at the tires sidewall pressures. All of Keystone's recommended tire inflation pressures will be for 100% tire sidewall pressures. It's not the automotive industry where load capacity reserves are required, it's the RV trailer industry where they are not.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Yes, and that's the bottom line.

All Special Trailer tires (ST) are designed for full sidewall pressures.

Next time you're on a Keystone lot, check out the tire placards on all models, then look at the tires sidewall pressures. All of Keystone's recommended tire inflation pressures will be for 100% tire sidewall pressures. It's not the automotive industry where load capacity reserves are required, it's the RV trailer industry where they are not.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I took my Toy Hauler across the scales this past weekend, as I posted earlier...loaded exactly the way it is loaded when travelling. Scale weight was 10,380. I certainly don't need 80 psi to make that set of tires workable for that amount of load. In fact, as I stated earlier, running 75psi gives me a reserve capacity on each tire in the neighborhood of 665 lbs. There is simply no need to inflate to full maximum pressure unless I am approaching somewhere around 13K lbs on the tires.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by xrated

You may be correct, I don't know. What I do know is that in the motorcycling world, every motorcycle comes with an inflation sticker for the tires. Then, in the owner's manual, you will find that the recommended pressures that they say is for a fully loaded motorcycle.....rider, passenger, fuel, saddlebags, top bag, any and all accessories....the maximum weight that the motorcycle should be subjected to. Obviously, we are talking two completely different animals here, but it makes senses to NOT inflate a tire to let's say 80psi (the stamped maximum pressure on many of the tires the size of the ones on mine), when a tire that is inflated that much will not have as good of a contact patch on the road (which affects braking of course), will not ride as smoothly as one that is inflated to a psi that is closer to the actual load placed on it. So, in response to your post....to each their own.

And I'm curious, how do you "KNOW" that is not the intent of the Load/Inflation chart? Why would they publish that if that were not the intent? Maximum suggested pressure, to me, is for the people that don't know how to properly check the load that they are hauling, so the manufacturers, to be on the safe side (avoid litigation) tell them to inflate to the maximum, effectively covering their proverbial asses!

I'm not trying to get in the middle of anything but.....

I've always read, heard and been told that a trailer tire should be ran at max pressure due to their construction. The sidewalls are not meant to flex, bounce and bow like a passenger car tire - the sidewall construction makes it heat up faster. I don't know why Maxxis has a tire inflation chart for the ST tires but I would absolutely have them verify in writing that they will be responsible if anything happens while you run underinflated....I'm sure they will decline.

Here is a quote from etrailer:

"Special Trailer (ST) Tires and Air Pressure
Some tires are specially designed to be used on trailers. These tires include the letters "ST" in the size specification that is listed on the sidewall. The "ST" stands for "special trailer". This kind of tire has a stronger sidewall than an automobile or truck tire so it can handle higher air pressures and higher loads.

Special trailer tires should be inflated to their maximum air pressure. The value for the maximum air pressure should be listed along with the value for the maximum load on the tire's sidewall. These values will usually designate the maximum load at a maximum psi. For example, if the tire is rated at 1,610 lbs maximum at 65 psi, the tire can carry 1,610 lbs of weight if the air pressure is at the maximum of 65 psi. At the maximum air pressure, the tires will perform and wear best, and get the best gas mileage."

Just want to be sure you don't have a problem...you're towing a pretty big trailer. Also, you might air the tire to max and just chalk the tires and run them to see how their hitting the pavement. My guess is they will be just fine at max psi. Good luck.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by xrated

And I'm curious, how do you "KNOW" that is not the intent of the Load/Inflation chart?

Because, we, the public at large do not set tire inflation pressures. That's not to say people don't do it, it's just not supposed to work that way.

Vehicles operated on our highways are fitted with tires that are approved for highway service. In other words, they are going to have a DOT seal of approval on their sidewalls. There are two governing bodies that provide the regulations to follow for the two very different uses of highway tires.

One is the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA). The other is the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). One is not applicable with the other.

An arm of the Department of Transportation (DOT), The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) writes and enforces the FMVSS standards.

Within the FMVSS standards there is a statement that requires each vehicle manufacturer fitting tires to a vehicle to set an appropriate cold recommended inflation pressure for each tire fitment. Those pressures are the correct pressures for that fitment. During the vehicle certification process the vehicle manufacturer must certify those inflation pressures on the certification label and any tire placards displayed on the vehicle. In the eyes of NHTSA those inflation pressures are golden and will always be the standard for the Original Equipment (OE) tires fitted to that vehicle and any replacement tires of the same size.

The tire industry writes their own industry standards. No where in any of their standards will you find a recommendation to use less tire inflation pressure on OE tires than what has been recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.

In the automotive side of the house the regulations require a percentage of load capacity reserves via inflation. So when you read one of those certification labels you’re going to see excess load capacity. It’s always going to be above 8%. It’s where the tire inflation charts are most handy. The installers must have the charts to insure they have provided the required load capacity reserves. It becomes more complicated for them when they are fitting Passenger tires to Multi passenger vehicles, Pick-up trucks, RV trailer’s. The “P” tires must have a 10% load capacity deduction for fitment to those vehicles.

Under-inflated tire: Cold inflation pressure below what has been recommended.
Over-inflated tire: Cold inflation pressure exceeds sidewall recommendation for maximum load.

[xrated]

sourdough....you're not getting into the middle of anything. We are all just stating our opinions in a friendly and respectful manner, and having a discussion here....that's what forums should be all about. One can do a google search and find many, many articles about tire inflation and loads. Naturally, some will stand firm and tell you that the tire should be inflated to the maximum sidewall pressure rating, others will tell you to inflate according to the load that they will be used for...within reason of course. ST sidewalls are purposely stiffer, in my opinion because of the possibility of side loading when turning sharply at slow speeds. Cars and trucks (not semi's) do not have that same side loading that tandem axle or triple axle trailers have. My truck, as probably many of the trucks out there that run an "E" range tire, has that same stamp on the sidewall...80 psi, yet the plaquard on the door post tells me to run 65 psi both front and rear. Why is that? Ford (in my case) knows that if the tire is inflated to 65 psi, the tires will be sufficiently inflated to handle the GVW rating of the truck...10K To me, it's the same thing with the trailer tires. Sidewall says 80, my load conditions are shown to be approx. 10,380 for the four tires, so no need to run 80 psi, when something less (75 in my situation) will be more than sufficient to handle the load of the trailer and still have a 665 lb reserve for each tire.

Link for an article that is interesting....
http://www.truckinginfo.com/channel/...ic-number.aspx

A quick excerpt from that article....
"Donn Kramer, director of product marketing innovation at Goodyear Commercial Tire Systems, says tire loads determine inflation pressure.
“The specific pressure for a given load is available from tire manufacturer’s load and inflation tables,” Kramer says. “Fleets also can use tables provided by the Tire & Rim Association, whose members set technical standards for manufacturing tires and wheels.”

[Mike L123]

I have to ask ---- and I'm sorry if this is a bit of a hijack. I'm confused about why our 2008 Fleetwood Regal 325RKTS only has ST235/80R 16D wheels which are at max inflated to 65lbs. The RV weighs 11,000lbs empty and 13,000lbs when full of our "stuff". We are FT's so we have lots of stuff to drag around with us. Are the "D" rated tires on there because "back then" that's what they used or should I conceivably be crapping my drawers here and wondering every time I pull if the tires are gonna go BAM!

Should I be considering bigger "E" rated tires for the 16" wheels?

Cheers and Thanks

Mike

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by xrated

sourdough....you're not getting into the middle of anything. We are all just stating our opinions in a friendly and respectful manner, and having a discussion here....that's what forums should be all about. One can do a google search and find many, many articles about tire inflation and loads. Naturally, some will stand firm and tell you that the tire should be inflated to the maximum sidewall pressure rating, others will tell you to inflate according to the load that they will be used for...within reason of course. ST sidewalls are purposely stiffer, in my opinion because of the possibility of side loading when turning sharply at slow speeds. Cars and trucks (not semi's) do not have that same side loading that tandem axle or triple axle trailers have. My truck, as probably many of the trucks out there that run an "E" range tire, has that same stamp on the sidewall...80 psi, yet the plaquard on the door post tells me to run 65 psi both front and rear. Why is that? Ford (in my case) knows that if the tire is inflated to 65 psi, the tires will be sufficiently inflated to handle the GVW rating of the truck...10K To me, it's the same thing with the trailer tires. Sidewall says 80, my load conditions are shown to be approx. 10,380 for the four tires, so no need to run 80 psi, when something less (75 in my situation) will be more than sufficient to handle the load of the trailer and still have a 665 lb reserve for each tire.

Link for an article that is interesting....
http://www.truckinginfo.com/channel/...ic-number.aspx

A quick excerpt from that article....
"Donn Kramer, director of product marketing innovation at Goodyear Commercial Tire Systems, says tire loads determine inflation pressure.
“The specific pressure for a given load is available from tire manufacturer’s load and inflation tables,” Kramer says. “Fleets also can use tables provided by the Tire & Rim Association, whose members set technical standards for manufacturing tires and wheels.”

I know what you're saying. I've followed that mantra for decades with my cars, trucks and playtoys. However, I've never seen any detrimental effect to running my RV tires at max. In fact, when I upgraded from LRD to LRE on my trailer, running at max pressure, there was a noticeable improvement in the ride of the trailer on bad roads. Like has been said, more or less, different strokes for different folks. Having had the underside of my trailer torn out by a trailer tire failure I'm not going to risk running contrary to what my tire maker calls for (Carlisle) which is max pressure on the sidewall as indicated as I recall.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by xrated

sourdough....you're not getting into the middle of anything. We are all just stating our opinions in a friendly and respectful manner, and having a discussion here....that's what forums should be all about. One can do a google search and find many, many articles about tire inflation and loads. Naturally, some will stand firm and tell you that the tire should be inflated to the maximum sidewall pressure rating, others will tell you to inflate according to the load that they will be used for...within reason of course. ST sidewalls are purposely stiffer, in my opinion because of the possibility of side loading when turning sharply at slow speeds. Cars and trucks (not semi's) do not have that same side loading that tandem axle or triple axle trailers have. My truck, as probably many of the trucks out there that run an "E" range tire, has that same stamp on the sidewall...80 psi, yet the plaquard on the door post tells me to run 65 psi both front and rear. Why is that? (Because your truck tires must have load capacity reserves via inflation. Your trailer tires do not.) Ford (in my case) knows that if the tire is inflated to 65 psi, the tires will be sufficiently inflated to handle the GVW rating of the truck...10K To me, it's the same thing with the trailer tires. Sidewall says 80, my load conditions are shown to be approx. 10,380 for the four tires, so no need to run 80 psi, when something less (75 in my situation) will be more than sufficient to handle the load of the trailer and still have a 665 lb reserve for each tire.

Link for an article that is interesting....
http://www.truckinginfo.com/channel/...ic-number.aspx

A quick excerpt from that article....
"Donn Kramer, director of product marketing innovation at Goodyear Commercial Tire Systems, says tire loads determine inflation pressure.
“The specific pressure for a given load is available from tire manufacturer’s load and inflation tables,” Kramer says. “Fleets also can use tables provided by the Tire & Rim Association, whose members set technical standards for manufacturing tires and wheels.”

The red is where you're quoting FMCSA regulations. They are not applicable to the Standards used for vehicles built under the guidance of FMVSS standards.

Post #10 has the whole story.

https://one.nhtsa.gov/nhtsa/Safety1n...713_v4_tag.pdf

[xrated]

CWtheMan wrote:

(Because your truck tires must have load capacity reserves via inflation. Your trailer tires do not.)

It may not be required to have load capacity reserves via inflation, but they do. In my case, 665 lbs per tire while inflated to 75 psi and carrying the load that I carry. A very good indicator of under inflation is when the tire(s) heat up beyond a normal rise in temperature while being used. And with approx. 665 lbs reserve per tire, they are not being overloaded, so no significant temperature rise. Again, we'll just have to disagree about trailer tire inflation.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by xrated

CWtheMan wrote:


It may not be required to have load capacity reserves via inflation, but they do. In my case, 665 lbs per tire while inflated to 75 psi and carrying the load that I carry. A very good indicator of under inflation is when the tire(s) heat up beyond a normal rise in temperature while being used. And with approx. 665 lbs reserve per tire, they are not being overloaded, so no significant temperature rise. Again, we'll just have to disagree about trailer tire inflation.

Call or email any Maxxis area rep and the answer will be the same. "Follow the recommendations of the vehicle manufacturer." Nowhere in tire industry standards will you find a recommendation to use less tire inflation pressures than what has been recommended on the vehicle's tire placards.

Page #9

https://rma.org/wp-content/uploads/R...Guide_2013.pdf

[xrated]

And again, those recommendations are for a fully loaded trailer, loaded to the GVWR...13K in the case of my trailer. I'm not going to run 80 psi when the scale ticket for my trailer, loaded the way it will be loaded everytime I go out, is approx 10,380 lbs.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by xrated

And again, those recommendations are for a fully loaded trailer, loaded to the GVWR...13K in the case of my trailer. I'm not going to run 80 psi when the scale ticket for my trailer, loaded the way it will be loaded everytime I go out, is approx 10,380 lbs.

And that is a trucker's way of doing things. It's not compatible with a system that operates on standardized inflation pressures. Until you convert your way of doing things to the the part of the tire/vehicle industry that is governed by FMVSS standards you're going to always be lost in the conversation.

This thread is about trailer tires and has been drawn into their maintenance procedures. The language for those procedures is from the regulations that oversee their fitment and the industry standards established to insure a safe environment to operate within.

The RMA is a driving force in the tire industry and sits on all boards and committees that has anything to do with the rules, regulations & tire industry standards. Here is a PDF reference from them.

All is good information. Chapter four is about RVs.

http://www.mcgeecompany.com/wp-conte...ete-manual.pdf

[busterbrown]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

And that is a trucker's way of doing things. It's not compatible with a system that operates on standardized inflation pressures. Until you convert your way of doing things to the the part of the tire/vehicle industry that is governed by FMVSS standards you're going to always be lost in the conversation.

This thread is about trailer tires and has been drawn into their maintenance procedures. The language for those procedures is from the regulations that oversee their fitment and the industry standards established to insure a safe environment to operate within.

The RMA is a driving force in the tire industry and sits on all boards and committees that has anything to do with the rules, regulations & tire industry standards. Here is a PDF reference from them.

All is good information. Chapter four is about RVs.

http://www.mcgeecompany.com/wp-conte...ete-manual.pdf

Thanks for posting the RMA document. It's definitely an excellent read for those who are RV owners, or for anyone who wants to adhere to the industry standards.

I did find this very interesting in Chapter 4, page 52:

"The Recreational Vehicle Safety & Education Foundation (RVSEF) has weighed over 25,000 motor homes and travel trailers in conjunction with RV
events. Of the RVs checked by RVSEF, more than 57 percent had loads that exceeded the capacity of one or more tires on the vehicles. Most of the weight was on the rear. In a separate survey conducted by a tire company, 4 out of 5 RVs had at least one under inflated tire, a third of which were significantly under inflated, and at risk of failure"

It's amazing how often load ratings are exceeded by your typical, albeit unknowing, RV owner. And one wonders why a tire failure is then immediately blamed on its respective manufacturer.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

And that is a trucker's way of doing things. It's not compatible with a system that operates on standardized inflation pressures. Until you convert your way of doing things to the the part of the tire/vehicle industry that is governed by FMVSS standards you're going to always be lost in the conversation.

This thread is about trailer tires and has been drawn into their maintenance procedures. The language for those procedures is from the regulations that oversee their fitment and the industry standards established to insure a safe environment to operate within.

The RMA is a driving force in the tire industry and sits on all boards and committees that has anything to do with the rules, regulations & tire industry standards. Here is a PDF reference from them.

All is good information. Chapter four is about RVs.

http://www.mcgeecompany.com/wp-conte...ete-manual.pdf

After reading through the article from the above link ^^^^, I've probably come to some conclusions, and a couple of them stand out. It seems that the theme of the entire publication revolves around tire safety in different scenarios.....cars, trucks, Heavy trucks, and RVs. Some of what was written there I am familiar with, some of it maybe not. What I do take out of the publication is that, as with many other Government regulations, is intended to provide guidance/motherly love for folks that maybe don' know any better or simply do not have the common sense to figure out how to properly take care of their tires; from proper inflation, to tread depth, to sidewall cracking, to proper fitment of the correct tire for the load that they hauling/towing. It seems that common sense really isn't very common anymore and it also seems that the "It's not my fault...I didn't know" mentality has taken over in many cases. Add in the anxious to sue someone mentality, and many, many government regulations and guideline are born.

As with some other Government regulations that are written, I don't agree with this one, in the respect that they say that you should never lower the tire pressure lower than the safety plaquard on the vehicle. I don't agree, and most likely never will.

CW......you seem to totally agree with the safety plaquard issue, so I'd like to ask you a question here.

There is another scenario where we are regulated by the Government (and it's agencies), and we all know it as the Speed Limit....which is actually a safety Plaquard for the roads and highways. So, by your thought process we have an Interstate highway with a 70 MPH speed limit in effect. So if you go by the "Plaquard", 70 MPH is the speed to drive...that's what the plaquard says is the limit. So I'll compare that limit to the 80 psi "limit" that is stamped on the sidewalls of my four trailer tires. 70 MPH is the safe speed limit, and 80 psi is the "safe" limit for my tires. It doesn't require any thinking or deliberation or discussion.....70 is the speed limit and 80 is the psi.

So finally, my long awaited question! So, the above scenarios (let's take the speed limit one first), are there any limiting factors that should affect that limit, you know, like raining really hard.....snow on the roadway....heavy fog...heavy traffic....poor road conditions...you get the drift. Hopefully most everyone would say "Of Course" there are conditions that change the way I drive in a 70 MPH speed limited area.

OK, now the psi thing. So the "speed limit" (actually the safety plaquard on the trailer) says 80 psi (this is the actual number on my Toy Hauler by the way)......so I have to run 80 psi..right? Of course I do, it's the Speed Limit/Safety Plaquard and it the gospel law. So what about those extenuating conditions....you know like rain, snow, heavy traffic, fog, poor road conditions...all the things that should make you want to vary from the posted speed limit. The same is true when it comes to tire pressure....the plaquard says 80, but there are extenuating condidtions......something like my just scaled trailer that came in at 10,380 lbs which is 2660 lbs LESS than my tires are inflated to handle at 75 psi (which gives me a 665 lb reserve capacity at each tire). But wait, should I abide by some Government recommendation to run my tires inflated to 80 psi and have a load capacity of 13,680 lbs (825 lbs per tire reserve)....OR should I apply some Common Sense to the situation and inflate the tires to a reasonable pressure that is consistent with hauling my trailer with a significan reserve, no danger of overloading, and no danger or over-heating the tire because of excessive flexing because I'm underinflated?

In closing, I really don't expect you to agree with my thoughts on this, but thank God I have the ability to apply common sense when needed in most situations that I'm faced with......and this is one of them. As we both have differing opinions of this tire pressure topic, I really don't see any need to continue it from my perspective.

And BTW, thank you for posting those links, they did make for some interesting reading, even if I don't agree with some of it....and never will.