Snapped lug bolts

[bartbill]

Sure hope the pics come through. This is a dangerous condition. 2012 Sprinter with 2500 miles on it. All six lugs snapped - could of killed someone when the tire came off! The folks I bought it from said' "oh yeah, you should torque the bolts every 500 miles. Really, That's the best engineering Keystone can come up with with such a potentially catastrophic event.

[Ken / Claudia]

Was it a dealer you mention or private sale. Any idea why they snapped, was it during travel or tire change etc. I have some reasons they could snap off but, tell us more.

[TandE]

I would like to know more also. I know when I check torque after they have been set before, I go ten percent less than the desired torque and watch to see if they move. If they do I torque them to the desired point.

[Bob Landry]

I had a Ford Ranger that my tire dealer was replacing snapped lugs on every time I went in for service. I was unable to figure out what was happening until I watched his guy put my wheels on. He was putting the lug nut in the air wrench and then starting the nut on the threads by pulling the trigger. The nut would cross thread and he would continue putting it on. When I saw that, I made the manager go back and pull all of my service invoices and reimburse me for all of the "bad" lugs he had replaced. He wasn't very happy, but he was more unhappy when I told him I wouldn't be back.
One thing I really like about Discount Tire is that they use the air gun to get the torque close then finish by hand.
Lug nut torque is not rocket science and for all 6 to snap, someone had to do something to stress those lugs. If this happened after a tire or brake service, I would be having that shop replace all of the lugs on every wheel.. And tighten the correct way.

[jsmith948]

Have to agree with the previous replies. We need more info. such as what type of wheel, were they recently removed, were they torgued and by whom?
I don't think this will likely be Keystone's fault.

[SAABDOCTOR]

I Have to agree with Bob. Lug nuts don't just snap or our wheels would be all over the highway and we would not need tire covers.Air guns are great for removing lug nuts. start them by hand then an air gun with a torque stick( so they are not over torqued) and final torque with a torque wrench. period! I thinks your service dept fubar'd them.

[bartbill]

Thanks much for your comments. This is a 29' Copper Canyon bought new in 2012. Probably has 3k miles on it. We "lost" the wheel about 4 miles west of Durango CO. Didn't know it until we were in town. Went back looking for the wheel but it was picked up ( saw the tire tracks of who ever got it). The repair is a simple bolt replace but I'm now running on the spare. Wheels are Aluminum.

This axle has the grease zert plug in the grease cap and I lubed it once with three or four pumps of grease about a month earlier. Wheels have never been off since it left the dealership. Tires are wearing evenly and the unit pulls well. Actually thought the frame and axles were the best part of the unit.

But here is the issue; Torquing the lug bolts every 500 miles!
I talked to a RV dealership service manager here on the front range when I got back about this. That is the reason for the quoted statement in my earlier post. He said Aluminum wheels are known to cause bolts to snap. if not frequently checked. He said it posted somewhere but not sure where (about the 500 mile check). I look forward to tracking milage to maintain the wheels - especially on long hauls, like an Alaska trip. I just think Keystone could do better.

Regards

[hankpage]

These axles and wheels are not made by Keystone and are used by many other manufacturers. Your owners manual (as useless as it may be) clearly states the need for torquing wheels. Trailer wheels are not like automobile wheels and are subject to very severe twisting and side loads. Unlike on your car or truck if a trailer wheel comes loose you may not feel it until it is too late. (as you have found out) Thus the NEED to inspect and re-torque regularly. I do mine before each trip and at my first fuel stop along with air pressure and tire and hub temps. My '07 Cougar even came with a DVD on proper torque of wheels. Even auto wheels should be re-torqued about 25-50mi. after being mounted and is the owners responsibility. JM2¢, Hank

[JRTJH]

Bartbill,

I am sorry you're having the issues with lug nut/wheel separation, but it's a common issue with all trailers and any of the trailer manufacturers (from RV's to cargo trailers) has a BIG warning in their owner's manual that tells the owner to check lug nuts for tightness after 50 miles of towing (when wheels are changed/new) and daily before towing. When I bought my Gatormade cargo trailer, there were yellow decals on the fenders at all 4 wheels that cautioned to check lug nut torque frequently.

On each side of my Cougar is a warning sticker (over the wheel wells) that states:

WARNING: Loose lug nuts can cause wheel separation and damage. Check lug nut torque on the first trip at 10/25/50 miles, check lug nut torque before every trip, check lug nut torque after winter storage, check lug nut torque after excessive braking.

Your Keystone owner's manual has the following in the "IMPORTANT SAFETY INFORMATION" section at the beginning of the manual:

"Lug Nut Torquing
Being sure wheel mounting nuts (lug nuts) on trailer wheels are tight and properly torqued is an important responsibility that trailer owners and users need to be familiar with and practice. Inadequate and/or inappropriate wheel nut torque (tightness) is a major reason that lug nuts loosen in service. Loose lug nuts can rapidly lead to a wheel separation with potentially serious safety consequences. Please see Chapter 4 for more information."

As I said in the beginning, I'm sorry for your loss, however, it appears that your issue may well have been caused or made worse by not checking the lug nuts as recommended by the manuracturer.

Almost all trailer wheels use lug nuts with "flat shoulders" which do not center the wheel on the axle and rely on torque to keep the wheel from shifting (or rotating on the spindle) which applies a "shear or cutting force" against the lugs. The only way to minimize that damaging force is through proper torque on all the lug nuts. Most of us check tightness on lug nuts regularly, many of us carry a torque wrench with us when we travel. I check my tire pressures and lug nuts every morning before towing. Your unfortunate incident is an example of just how important these checks are to safe towing of heavy RV's.

[Ken / Claudia]

Get a torque wrench, $20 or so. Those lugs were not torqued correctly, got loose, wheel lug holes grow bigger as it rotates until they snap off and the wheel leaves the RV. Seen it enough. Even just had a close friend that did that on a motorhome rear duals last winter. It cost close to 4,000 for the repair and replacement. He thought he had enough torque, with a star lug wrench. He got about 400 miles before he saw the wheel pass him on a highway. If that wheel/tire hit a small car or motorcycle rider. I seen that to.

[SAABDOCTOR]

A torque wrench is cheap at sears or auto parts store. use it before every trip. then recheck after 100-200 miles. then i am good for the rest of the trip. I have aluminum wheels and have never had an issue with a lug with this procedure. I would check the rest of your wheels if they have loose nuts look at the hole if it is enlarged it's time to replace them. then fallow the recomende procedure for wheel replacement. do them every 50 miles. mine stayed tight after 400 miles the first time out when new. glad your ok.

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

Lots of folks think that simply re-checking the lug torque is
done by placing the socket and torque wrench on the nuts and
lean on it till it clicks, or however their TW works.... If it was over
torqued before they'll never know. Proper method is to loosen the
nuts a quarter to a half turn then apply the torque wrench to it until
you get the proper indication. Using the correct sequence of course.
The last sentence or 2 is the good part;
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/...jsp?techid=107

hankaye

[Terrydactile]

Originally Posted by hankaye

Howdy All;

Lots of folks think that simply re-checking the lug torque is
done by placing the socket and torque wrench on the nuts and
lean on it till it clicks, or however their TW works.... If it was over
torqued before they'll never know. Proper method is to loosen the
nuts a quarter to a half turn then apply the torque wrench to it until
you get the proper indication. Using the correct sequence of course.
The last sentence or 2 is the good part;
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/...jsp?techid=107

hankaye

Correct, but I would venture to say that most do not do this and may never know someone over torqued their lugs. Over torqued lugs should be replaced.

[Javi]

This is the reason I will never again own aluminum wheels. I've had no problem with the set currently on my Passport, but I am contentious about checking the torque before towing. However it is really a PITA and not necessary with steel wheels and tapered lug nuts.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Javi

This is the reason I will never again own aluminum wheels. I've had no problem with the set currently on my Passport, but I am contentious about checking the torque before towing. However it is really a PITA and not necessary with steel wheels and tapered lug nuts.

Javi,

It is still necessary to check for proper torque and proper inflation of tires even with steel wheels. There may be less potential for steel wheels with tapered lug nuts to loosen, but it remains prudent (and by the owner's manual, necessary) to check the lug nuts for proper torque when first installed or changed, after 50 miles and daily before use with all wheels, including steel wheels.

There is no difference stated in the owner's manual. The requirement is the same whether using aluminum or steel wheels.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Javi,

It is still necessary to check for proper torque and proper inflation of tires even with steel wheels. There may be less potential for steel wheels with tapered lug nuts to loosen, but it remains prudent (and by the owner's manual, necessary) to check the lug nuts for proper torque when first installed or changed, after 50 miles and daily before use with all wheels, including steel wheels.

There is no difference stated in the owner's manual. The requirement is the same whether using aluminum or steel wheels.

Be that as it may... I've towed several 100K miles with heavy trailers using steel wheels and have yet to find a loose lug nut on a steel wheel that was properly torqued from the beginning. I cannot say that about aluminum wheels even on a car or truck... In fact I've seen the lug nuts on an aluminum wheel loosen while the vehicle sat over the winter.
I will never own another trailer or pickup with aluminum wheels and would be changing the set I currently own if the DW wasn't wanting to buy a new trailer.

[SAABDOCTOR]

NEVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH ANY OF THE 16 ALUMINUM WHEELS on any of my trailers cars trucks golf cart I'm going out to buy a lottery ticket!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Javi

Be that as it may... I've towed several 100K miles with heavy trailers using steel wheels and have yet to find a loose lug nut on a steel wheel that was properly torqued from the beginning. I cannot say that about aluminum wheels even on a car or truck... In fact I've seen the lug nuts on an aluminum wheel loosen while the vehicle sat over the winter.
I will never own another trailer or pickup with aluminum wheels and would be changing the set I currently own if the DW wasn't wanting to buy a new trailer.

I'm sure you're happy that you have had such great success with steel wheels. I will agree with you that they seem to be more "reliable" in that they don't seem to experience loose lug nuts as readily as aluminum wheels, however the owner's manual for Keystone (and manuals from all other RV manufacturers I've seen) specifically require ALL lug nuts to be retorqued at specific intervals. There is no disticntion as to the type of wheel used on the RV.

To lead the membership to believe that lug nuts on steel wheels "don't come loose" and therefore "don't require checking torque" could give some members who own RV's with steel wheels a false sense of security and lead them to believe that they don't need to check torque on their lug nuts. That's not the situation at all. Every lug nut on every RV has the potential to work loose and could cause a wheel separation. It's the same on truck/car wheels and essentially the same requirement to check torque on the lug nuts is included in vehicle owner's manuals as well. Ford requires that lug nuts on the F250 be retorqued at 100 miles after any wheel disturbance on single rear wheel vehicles and at 100 miles and again at 500 miles on all dual rear wheel vehicles.

To say, "I've never had a lug nut come loose in several 100K miles" doesn't mean that you won't walk out and find 32 loose lug nuts today. Safety doesn't just happen, being vigilant and remembering to do the recommended safety checks will help keep all of us "out of trouble" Checking lug nuts on steel and aluminum wheels is a wise habit to have. Following manufacturers safety requirements is also prudent.

[Jim W]

Originally Posted by hankaye

Howdy All;

Lots of folks think that simply re-checking the lug torque is
done by placing the socket and torque wrench on the nuts and
lean on it till it clicks, or however their TW works.... If it was over
torqued before they'll never know. Proper method is to loosen the
nuts a quarter to a half turn then apply the torque wrench to it until
you get the proper indication. Using the correct sequence of course.
The last sentence or 2 is the good part;
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/...jsp?techid=107

hankaye

I guess I am in a different camp when checking my lug nuts on the trailer.

First this is done every trip and every day that we set out to tow the trailer or night before. I do not loosen the nuts since I use static torque to check them not the dynamic torque that is used to install the nuts. This was the method we taught the assemblers and mechanics to use at Cat for all fasteners torques.

The lug nuts are installed by me and only I and they are installed by using hand tools only. When they are installed I bring them up to 50% torque first in a star pattern. Then they are finally torque to their correct value in the same star pattern. I have never had a wheel stud fail on me with this method or a loose wheel nut on my trailer rims.

Jim

[SAABDOCTOR]

Good words Jim the only thing i do different is after starting the nuts by hand I run them up with an air gun and a 60lb torque stick. then I step torque like you do. and I am the only one that puts the wheel on. after that they get checked before every trip if multi day the every day before i head out. also John good advice about not checking steel wheels.My small utillity trailer that i tow my tractor or golf cart with has steel wheels 8 inch diameter, they are the ones that always loosten a bit after use. pays to all ways check! Murphy waits around the corner