Weigh ticket help

[vampress_me]

Hi guys. So, we have our new SOB camper and have taken it across the scales a couple of times now. If they come through in the correct order, the first photo is the truck alone. Second photo is the truck with empty camper directly from dealer. Third photo is of loaded camper when we took it to the campground this weekend to park it. If it matters, it’s the truck and camper in my signature with a B&W Companion hitch.

I posted these to the brand’s FB page to try to educate people that a 250/2500 is not a good choice for this brand of camper due to the weight (there are numerous posts from newbies asking this question every day. Sigh....)

Now, of course all I’m getting are a few experts telling me the 20 lbs off the front end of the truck when loaded is just horrible and needs fixing. I wasn’t concerned about that at all since it was 20 lbs. But, wanted to ask my “tow police” friends on here if I’m correct? Or am I missing something?

ETA - I also got told to add air bags to fix my problem....

[markcee]

I am still a recruit in the WPD academy, but I wanna jump in here just to get some 5th wheel education from the veterans. Please forgive my ignorance if this makes no sense.

It looks like your pin weight, as scaled, is 3400 lbs, which equates to a typical 22.4%.

As this is likely already exceeding the payload of most any 3/4 ton diesel (which I'm sure is your point to the FB peeps), how will removing more weight from the front axle be helpful? Wouldn't this increase rear axle weight (and therefore increase the pin weight)....eating up even more payload?

[vampress_me]

Originally Posted by markcee

I am still a recruit in the WPD academy, but I wanna jump in here just to get some 5th wheel education from the veterans. Please forgive my ignorance if this makes no sense.

It looks like your pin weight, as scaled, is 3400 lbs, which equates to a typical 22.4%.

As this is likely already exceeding the payload of most any 3/4 ton diesel (which I'm sure is your point to the FB peeps), how will removing more weight from the front axle be helpful? Wouldn't this increase rear axle weight (and therefore increase the pin weight)....eating up even more payload?

I may be reading your question wrong, but what I was trying to post is that people are fixated on the fact that having the camper on the truck removed 20 lbs of weight from my front end. And according to them, that is awful and should not be allowed to happen. I don’t think it is awful, but wanted a better (more educated) opinion than mine on it, especially since I trust the guys on here (or at least most of them ).

[sourdough]

Lynette you didn't miss a thing. I don't drive a DRW, BUT just think about it;

the front end sitting empty is 5080lbs. Loaded it drops to 5060lbs. Absolutely negligible. Or another way since these folks are worried about that "20lbs."; you went from 5080 unloaded to 5060 loaded = 20lb. drop. A 20 lb. drop from a 5080 front end weight is a .039% change...not even 1% .... .039%! Imperceptible with that large of a truck. I bet your headlights went straight to the sky!

One of the reasons I don't do Facebook or forums for the "fan boys" of this or that.....far too many out there that don't know come here from sic um.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by vampress_me

I may be reading your question wrong, but what I was trying to post is that people are fixated on the fact that having the camper on the truck removed 20 lbs of weight from my front end. And according to them, that is awful and should not be allowed to happen. I don’t think it is awful, but wanted a better (more educated) opinion than mine on it, especially since I trust the guys on here (or at least most of them ).

Again, sorry in advance, as I know very little, but like to learn. To their point, doesn't dropping a 5th wheel in a truck bed going reduce the truck's front axle weight? Or, are they saying more should come off because of that? I guess my thinking is what does it matter. The fact that there is 3400 lbs of pin weight on the truck (even if it changed slightly with the amount of weight being transferred) renders their vehicle overloaded.

[Javi]

Just a note... Cat Scales have a 20 pound variation

[vampress_me]

Originally Posted by Javi

Just a note... Cat Scales have a 20 pound variation

Thank you! I used this.

[JRTJH]

As Javi said, the CAT scale tolerance is +/- 20 pounds (or around that). That slight variance could also be positional, in that you were a bit further onto the pads when you weighed the truck alone and slightly further back on the pads when you weighed the truck/trailer....

It also could be the position of the hitch in the truck bed. If I remember correctly, FORD installs the puck system so the centerline of the REESE hitch (they build the Ford "branded" hitch) sits directly over the C/L of the rear axle. Those pucks do not necessarily align "directly over the C/L of the rear axle if you're using a CURT or a B&W hitch on "THEIR PUCK BASE"... Honestly, moving the C/L of the pin forward or rearward 1" would account for more than a 20 pound variance that far forward on the "teeter totter", so we're talking the width of a couple of "gnat's butts"....

Those who are focused on 20 pounds off the front axle of a 9100 pound truck hitched to a 13,500 pound trailer ????? Well, they really need to get another bag of popcorn in the microwave... (or better yet, get something real to worry over)... This ain't it....

PS, you could always just tell them that you emptied the ash tray in the truck between weights

If you want to get "their creative juices flowing"... Just ask them if they can explain why the added cargo weight (1680 pounds) didn't decrease the front axle unloading further....

[vampress_me]

Well, at least I now know I’m not crazy and am perfectly fine. Well, with regard to the weight issue anyways.... Thank you guys!

But now I’m being told my pin weight percentage is 29%. One guy doesn’t know math apparently because the camper only weighs 11,660 lbs according to him.

I swear, I’m getting more and more frightened of being on the roads with some of these FB “experts”.

And, in answer to some of what John brought up in case anyone is curious. Our truck does not have the pucks, I have the turnover ball and use our Companion (that we’ve had ever since 2014) in the gooseneck hitch hole. Personal preference, I like the turnover ball versus the Reese version Ford would have put in with the pucks. The pin location is about 2” behind the axle centerline because I needed to move the arms back a set of holes to have clearance for the tailgate/ front of camper with tailgate down. And that is what I pointed out, but no one understood.

And this - “If you want to get "their creative juices flowing"... Just ask them if they can explain why the added cargo weight (1680 pounds) didn't decrease the front axle unloading further....” would just blow their minds away, and may be considered cruelty to others!

Again, thanks everyone!

[Ken / Claudia]

Take this for my situation only and what the service manager at the RV lot said.
When I weighted my past truck and TT, I found the front axle was 200 lbs lighter. I could not get the WHD bars any tighter.
The truck steered and braked without showing signs of a "too light of front end"
I have experienced that and it is dangerous.
I asked the service manager if anything I could do to would get me back to no loss or even less from the front axle.. He said 200 lbs off that front end of a F350 won't make any difference, its is close enough. That was 7 years ago and I suppose the current truck is the same.
Now on a smaller truck would 200 lbs matter, maybe.I used a DOT scale and they were for my time using them legal at 200 lbs plus or minus from 100% accurate for court when tickets get written.
Remember those scales are made to weight stuff much heavier than a 5,000 gross weight axle. Stand on one sometime, I come in at all zeros across the readout, I am 170 lb.

[vampress_me]

Originally Posted by markcee

Again, sorry in advance, as I know very little, but like to learn. To their point, doesn't dropping a 5th wheel in a truck bed going reduce the truck's front axle weight? Or, are they saying more should come off because of that? I guess my thinking is what does it matter. The fact that there is 3400 lbs of pin weight on the truck (even if it changed slightly with the amount of weight being transferred) renders their vehicle overloaded.

To their way of thinking, I should not lose any weight off the front end. And the fact that I did could cause problems/ an accident down the road. I didn’t see a problem with 20 lbs, but was doubting myself enough to come here and ask. Because everyone on here who has answered so far has taught me what I know from over the past 7 years about payload, etc. And I was starting to doubt if I had understood correctly over these years.

But, I also didn’t want to leave misinformation uncorrected on my FB post because any newbies that read through the thread would be even more confused/ misinformed. One definitely didn’t understand how dropping 3400 lbs 2” behind the rear axle could remove 20 lbs from the front axle. I suggested (in a nice way, not snotty) he think of a teeter totter with the rear axle being the “teeter” point. One end will go up when load applied to the other end. Although, obviously, my headlights are not pointing to the sky over that 20 lbs. (thank you, Danny, that was a great comment!)

And yep, I’m just hoping that some (maybe one?) person understands exactly how much one of those campers weigh and that the “tow police” on that page advocating for DRWs, or some new one ton SRW with higher payload, are not full of crap. BTW - our 340RL is one of the smaller/ lighter in that brand.

[flybouy]

20 lbs. off the front end? OMG! What on earth did you do? Did you use the windshield washers in between weights? That's why I don't do FB, too many drama queens.

[notanlines]

Lynette, by now we have all pretty much realize that this stems from the pin weight being centered 2" 'behind"the centerline of the axle. The vast majority of towing situations have the weight 2-4" in front of course, but the difference is minimal.
Yes, the pin weight is 22.75%, exactly where it should be. Your weight of all personal goods loaded into the new fiver is 1680#! (Maybe you had fresh water, I don't know) Most people have no idea that they drag around that much 'stuff!'
Your pin weight of 3400# is exactly what and where it should be. Roll on, big momma!

[jfk69]

I’m on a few FB Keystone pages. While there are some practical and knowledgeable people on there, it also has its share of those who came from the shallow end of the gene pool.

[Todd727]

Also that 20 lbs., assuming the scales were exactly the same, could easily be accounted for by differences in fuel and DEF levels.

Only thing you have to double check is axle ratings, tire ratings and GVWR of the truck and trailer against the weight slip. The yellow payload sticker no longer matters, as you have the real weights to compare against the ratings of the components.

[notanlines]

“ The yellow payload sticker no longer matters, ”. I’m afraid your payload sticker is the ruling faction here.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by notanlines

“ The yellow payload sticker no longer matters, ”. I’m afraid your payload sticker is the ruling faction here.

Unless you've weighed the truck and find out it's been reduced with the "stuff" thats in the truck.

[hazmat456]

Originally Posted by notanlines

“ The yellow payload sticker no longer matters, ”. I’m afraid your payload sticker is the ruling faction here.

He is right, the yellow sticker is meaningless. It only gives what the payload is on a brand new unloaded truck without any aftermarket accessories.

It is the white sticker that is the end all and tells the real tale.