Journey electronic brakes (failure)

azlee56 · 10-22-2012, 10:52 AM

We went camping and when we got to the hilly area of the trip going, the BF started looking down at the brake controller and messing with it. Didn't take long before I said, we don't have any brakes huh? He said, some but something is not right. Sometimes they would apply, the red light would stay a steady red and then it would start blinking and we would lose the trailer brakes. After we got to the lake and had to back up, the trailer brakes were there and steady. Going home, for one instant the brakes would apply and you could feel them, but then the little light would blink and he wouldn't have them. The manual override didn't work either. We don't know how old this brake controller is, as it was in the truck we bought last year and was good until this last trip. I quickly was searching the web and without really knowing if I had the right search terms in, found lots of questions being asked about the ground. BF said well that could be it, I put the disc on the fifth wheel hitch and maybe that made the ground iffy since it isn't metal on metal. I thought a moment and said does grease affect a ground? He said he didn't think it did so much. I thought some more and said doesn't make sense, we had the disc on the hitch last month and we didn't have a problem with the brakes, right? (I said that with a question in my eyes and almost a frown, just in case he didn't let me know there was a problem). He said, nope they were good.

As he stepped on the brake to come to a full stop I watched to see if there was a pattern of the lights. The best I could come up with is it would go seconds solid red and then blink 8 times and go solid red....and blink. Now BF wasn't helpful telling me if his foot was all the way down on the brake or not. I think he thought me trying to find a blinking pattern was a bit strange.

(btw the disc is the one on the FW hitch instead of grease).

Any ideas out there?

**JRTJH** · 10-22-2012, 11:15 AM

AZLEE,

If memory serves me correctly, (at my age, who knows) the Journey Brake Controller led is supposed to flash if there is a short in the circuit. My bet would be that you've got a worn wire on one of the brake magnet connections under the trailer. That's the most "fragile" part of the wiring and my bet would be where the brake wires exit the axle. Those wires just dangle there and one of them probably has some insulation worn away from the wire.

There should be enough free play in the wires to pull them out about half an inch or so from the axle to check to see if the insulation is good. After that, if it's not there, and if all the twist caps are good and tight with no corrosion under them, I'd start checking the brake magnets inside each wheel.

It's a simple intermittent short to ground but finding the exact location can sometimes be a frustrating troubleshooting experience.

John

SAABDOCTOR · 10-22-2012, 12:23 PM

HI AZLEE. If you and the bf have some time and john's post did not show anything positive. try this. unhook all the wire nuts at the wheels hook an amp meter from the harness to each wheel and step on the brake note the current draw. do this for each wheel. if you have a short. one of the current readings will be higher than the others if no current that wheel is an open circut.. in theory the 4 wheels should all draw the same current good luck.

azlee56 · 10-22-2012, 12:30 PM

Thanks you two. I'll let you know what we find out as soon as he can get it done, it will probably be this weekend. He might get to it during the week, but it gets dark to dang early now. Out of curiousity does the hitch have anything to do with grounds? Not necessarily this ground, but in grounding in general?

chuck&gail · 10-22-2012, 06:50 PM

IMHO just get a Prodigy and forget about it unless IT also does it. Good reason to get a Prodigy.

Festus2 · 10-22-2012, 07:15 PM

azlee -
I am certain that the round, white, nylon disc has nothing to do with your problem. Unless your brake controller works on some entirely different principle and its wiring is unlike the Prodigy, for example, there should be no reason why this disc is causing the problem. Its function is to prevent metal-to-metal contact between the pin box and the truck hitch. The brake and controller wiring passes through the main electrical cord between the truck and the 5th wheel - not through the disc.
As JRTJH and Barney have suggested, take a look at the wires and connections at the tire/wheel brakes.

azlee56 · 10-23-2012, 08:44 AM

Looking up the prodigy and he and I were talking about it last night, as I printed out John and Barney's suggestions and told him I had asked about the hitch/ground thing. I said, I just don't see it and he didn't either after thinking about it. We have another used brake controller he said that he might try before checking the wires, but I said if you want me to ride in there, the brakes have to work!

We had another conversation this weekend between a bunch of people and it was around the brake topic. Most of the fifth wheels don't use the break away, saying by the time anything happens your tail gate and damage is done, while the people pulling the TT say they have to use it. That got me curious. Why not use it with a fifth wheel?

Javi · 10-23-2012, 09:12 AM

Here in Texas you must have a breakaway switch hooked up...

Here is a link http://www.rvsafely.com/rvroadlaws.htm#TX

Festus2 · 10-23-2012, 09:23 AM

As far as I know, all 5th wheels have a breakaway and it is a requirement that they do. I would think that it would be mandatory everywhere, not just in Texas. I've never seen a 5th wheel without one.

azlee56 · 10-23-2012, 09:26 AM

The FW trailers have them, the people don't use them! I was looking at each one of them like they were nuts. I am going to take a look at that link javi and see what dear ole Arizona says. When I asked why would they have them if you aren't suppose to use them one guy said, it is law they install them on all trailers, it isn't law you have to use them. I bet I had a strange expression on my face.

hankaye · 10-23-2012, 09:30 AM

azlee, Howdy;

Don't forget to check the plugs. Both the truck and trailer ends.
They can be taken apart for maintence and so you can fix'em when
they get corroded. It does happen... plus anywhere there are connections.
An intermintant short can be caused by abrasion any where in the system...

hankaye

**JRTJH** · 10-23-2012, 09:51 AM

The break away switch is designed to apply power to the brakes to help stop the trailer should it "break away" from the tow vehicle. If it's a fifth wheel, there will be damage to the bed and tail gate of the truck as well as damage to the trailer from colliding with the truck during separation. That is "your issue" with trailer separation.

The bigger issue, I think, is what happens to unsuspecting motorists on the highway. By not connecting the break away switch, you "unleash" a runaway RV weighing 4 to 7 tons to roll unhampered along the highway, possibly spinning, twisting, rolling and crashing along until it either hits something bigger than itself and gets stopped or until it careens off the side of the highway. With the concrete medians in heavily travelled freeways, it's a sure bet that the RV will keep heading along the highway until it loses it's forward momentum either by gradually slowing down or by rapidly slowing down when it collides with other objects.

The biggest reason for connecting the break away switch is to protect others from your accidental separation. It may not prevent all collisions, but if it slows the trailer in a few hundred feet rather than allowing it to freely roll along the highway for possibly a mile or more, it will prevent a huge potential for additional damage. I urge you, use the device, it's the law in almost every state (and if it isn't it should be).

The cavilere approach of not using it reminds me of an old guy (I'll call him a geezer since I'm now his age) that I met when I first started towing our Airstream. He had a "huge" 31' Airstream and had changed out his trailer tongue chains for some very lightweight chains. When I asked him if he thought they would hold his trailer if it separated, his reply was, "Hell no, if it separates I want it as far from my suburban as I can get. I don't want it crashing into me." I thought for a moment and just shook my head and walked away. So much for concern for others, eh?

azlee56 · 10-23-2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankaye

azlee, Howdy;

Don't forget to check the plugs. Both the truck and trailer ends.
They can be taken apart for maintence and so you can fix'em when
they get corroded. It does happen... plus anywhere there are connections.
An intermintant short can be caused by abrasion any where in the system...

hankaye

I'll let him know, and thank you!!

azlee56 · 10-23-2012, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

.... The biggest reason for connecting the break away switch is to protect others from your accidental separation. I urge you, use the device, it's the law in almost every state (and if it isn't it should be).

Excellent points to remind everyone about! As I read this I remembered another conversation on here about tow licenses and weights and insurance. That if you don't do it, then your insurance won't do it. I am gonna tell the ladies of the campers with FW's and you can bet each one of them will now use the break away (devil horns go up)

azlee56 · 10-27-2012, 01:12 PM

He fixed it, so thank you all of you. He said wires were coroded and one was broke. So now I'll ride with finger nails intact, well almost.

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