F350/Montana mountain towing advice needed

[macattack]

I want to plan a cross-country trip from our home in Maryland to the west coast with multiple stops in between. This trip will take us through Colorado where the Eisenhower Tunnel and Vail Pass climbs will likely be the most stressing on the TV. We tow a 2012 Montana 3625 (GVWR 14,500 lbs) with a 2010 F350 dually, 6.4L turbo diesel, 3.73 axle ratio. GCWR for this TV is 23,500, and while I still need to have the rig weighed I'm estimating that loaded with the DW and pups, but empty black, grey, and water tanks, it will push 22,500 lbs.

So to those of you that have made similar trips with similar TV/5th wheel rig, what kind of experience on those mountains can I expect, and what tips can you give me in advance to avoid mistakes and bad times?

TIA to any who respond.

[Ram189]

Biggest thing I would tell you check the brakes on the truck before you start and make sure the trans is in good shape.

The transmission on that truck is the worst part of it. Make sure fluid is fresh and filter is new would be my best advice.

[allmi01]

I made this trip through the Eisenhower tunnel and over Vail pass on I-70 in september 2010 with My 03 Excursion 6.0 powerstroke 3.73's and a 10K TT.

The grades up from denver to the tunnel are 6 to 8 % with truck lanes.

Advice is to watch your EGT's. If you don't have a monitor or chipset with a monitor on your TV, get one! You won't be sorry.

In my case, I watched my EGT's and kept them under 1250 and went up the grades like the big rigs. about 35 to 45 MPH (not a power issue, but to keep EGTs lower) which reduces stress on the TV.

On the downhill side, the Torqueshift worked flawlessly. tap the brakes after topping the grade to down shift to 4th. In one case in Utah, I actually did a send tap to go into 3rd. never topped 50 MPH down ill without useing the brakes on the TV / TT. Never an exciting moment the entire trip.

Your TV is designed to handle the loads. Trust it but watch your EGT's. Keep them under 1250 and you, your DW and the TV will all be happy.

Mike

[rnkburg]

Have the engine checked well those twin turbo trucks are notorious for popping head gaskets, etc. Seen many tore down with the cabs off. Not sure if your truck has one but an exhaust brake would be something I would want on that trip

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

[Toy Teacher]

I have towed over that pass many times... You will be just fine just take it nice and steady You did not say but if your truck is all stock as in no programmer adding more fuel and boost your EGT's will be just fine.

[HappyCamperMN]

EGT == Exhaust Gas Temperature?

[denverpilot]

That truck will do fine. Member gkainz here can add more info but we're both running older Cummins. Friends have Fords. Others have GM.

All the turbo diesels do fine since they're getting most of the air they need at high altitude. The issues come from temperatures at altitude.

Thin air doesn't cool things as well. This includes higher EGT, transmission, radiator, brakes...

Use your gears downhill. 100% agreed on getting something on the truck to monitor exhaust temps going uphill. Get something that shows you temperatures.

Use your gears there too.

Unless you're doing it during ski season traffic, drivers are completely used to big rigs and RVs going slower in the far right lane up the bigger hills.

Don't ride your brakes. Slow down and let the engine (and if you have one, the exhaust brake) do the work. Don't get in a hurry.

Sometimes you'll get caught behind a big rig. Either slow up and join them or pass carefully. Remember he will start rolling faster as soon as he tops the hill, so don't pass right before the hilltop.

[bsmith0404]

Like most have already said, temps are the main concern. Those passes out there are long. When I lived in that area EGTs and Trans temps were always my main concern. I've seen many people burn up a tranny on those passes. If your tranny temps are getting high or close to limits when you tow now, they will get MUCH, MUCH higher going across those passes. If you haven't already, I would add a deeper pan with good cooling fins and a quality filter (I won't use anything that shipped on a boat). I added the Mag Hi-Tech trans pan to mine. It made a world of difference in cooling under heavy loads, seldom rises above the low side of the normal operating temp range.

While I was at it, I added a Mag Hi-Tech diff cover as well with a quality synthetic gear lube. That adds an extra quart of gear lube to the differential for cooling. My favorite part, it has a dipstick that allows you to easily check the fluid level. The dipstick has a magnet as well which gives you a good indicator of how much wear you are getting without pulling the cover.

[denverpilot]

Seconded on the Mag Hi-Tec here, but I didn't want the OP to think they were *required*. If want temperature gauges before the Mags. I didn't put the Mags on my TV, but I definitely like them.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by denverpilot

Seconded on the Mag Hi-Tec here, but I didn't want the OP to think they were *required*. If want temperature gauges before the Mags. I didn't put the Mags on my TV, but I definitely like them.

Yeah, not required, but they do make a difference. My dad has a Duramax/Allison just like mine, my tranny temps ran 20-40 degrees cooler than his (depending on terrain) and I was pulling 1,000 lbs more. He has since added the Mags to his as well with similar results.

[denverpilot]

I realized my sentence was weird. My TV has them, I just wasn't the original owner. He put them on and I like them. Ha. Hopefully that's clearer.

(Earlier posts today were done standing around at our data center waiting for our Gen Y newbie to show up to work, from my iPhone. Distracted. Scheduled start at the center was 10:00, he rolled in around 12:10. Seriously. I had finished all the work and was walking out the door. I don't get it.)

[macattack]

Thanks to all of you that took the time to respond to my request for advice. It's great to have such a storehouse of experience to draw on. i hadn't thought about an exhaust brake, but when it was mentioned here it reminded me of the descent from the Eisenhower Tunnel to Silverthorne and again from Vail Pass into the Vail valley, and what it would be like with a 14,000 lb 5th-wheel following me down. I think that will be a must--always nice to have cool brakes in an emergency.

Being a retired instrumentation engineer i always have a burning desire to know quantitatively what the engine operating parameters are, and after some additional research it looks like the EGT is the best and most reactive measure of what's going on in the combustion chambers. Clearly the guages with eight probes, one for each cylinder, seems to be overkill since i'm not going to race this beast. But with a single probe does it matter which bank it's installed in?

Beyond that, it seems like an iffy proposition to be drilling and tapping a hole in the exhaust manifold upstream of the turbocharger to install the temperature probe. How best does one make sure that the metal shavings don't end up inside the manifold only to be blown back into the engine by the turbo? This truck still has an extended warranty, and i've avoided so far making any mods to the engine (even though there are some i'd like to make to improve non-towing fuel mileage!).

[macattack]

After doing a bunch more research today I can't come up with anyone who makes a mechanical exhaust brake for the 6.4L Ford diesel. Plenty of electronic "exhaust brake" systems that modulate the transmission, but no actual mechanical brake that can be installed in the exhaust system to throttle the exhaust gases and raise the back pressure. Anyone know of one? Local Ford truck service depot says doing that would likely trip a fault code in the engine sensor system.

[denverpilot]

Originally Posted by macattack

After doing a bunch more research today I can't come up with anyone who makes a mechanical exhaust brake for the 6.4L Ford diesel. Plenty of electronic "exhaust brake" systems that modulate the transmission, but no actual mechanical brake that can be installed in the exhaust system to throttle the exhaust gases and raise the back pressure. Anyone know of one? Local Ford truck service depot says doing that would likely trip a fault code in the engine sensor system.

That's a bummer. You're probably still inside some warranty, right? My ol' 2001 Dodge, the former owner drove her right over to Rocky Mountain Cummins and they put an e-brake on her that not only was re-labeled with the Cummins brand name, but because they out it on, zero warranty change.

Surprised the dealer didn't have any options on the Ford. Sorry to hear that. I'm not a brand snob at all, but if I want an accessory like that I'd not be happy if the manufacturer couldn't refer me to someone they trust. That's no fun.

There's gotta be something!

Well nevertheless, keep her slowed up at the tops of hills and gear down and you'll be fine. Just don't get in a huge hurry. The only difference with a e-brake, you can get away with a little more speed at times.

Bunch of options and I only brought up all that stuff because you sound like you'd enjoy seeing the data fit your own analysts.

The current Cummins/Dodge they built it into a really fancy turbo that doubles as an e-brake. I know a friend's Silverado has one on it from the factory as he ordered it new that way from GM.

Well, anyway... For gauges, there's gauge clusters and then there's computers/"chips". My truck has the older venerable "Juice with Attitude" (goofy name) computer on it which has various modes for additional power and torque at the risk of lower engine life, meteors falling from the sky, and herpes. Or so they say. Ha. Kidding. But it does modify the factory sensor outputs to trick the factory Cummins computer into behaving differently. It plugs in mostly to existing wiring and I believe one sensor, the pyrometer for the EGT, has to be added, by drilling and tapping the appropriate place. My memory of my quick read of the install guide (it was already installed) didn't seem to show anything too awful that a reasonably competent shade-tree mechanic couldn't accomplish. Certainly a no-brainer for any diesel shop.

Where am I going with this? Many of these "extra power" boxes have very nice displays available as options. They pull info otherwise unseen but available from the truck's computer and their own sensors and display a ton of data. Mine's ancient compared to the model they offer today, but it'll show something like 25 parameters being tracked by the computers in the truck. The display on mine is limited to four items simultaneously, but newer toys like this one often show lots more on the default display. I can easily punch a few buttons and change them also. Fuel Pressure is a big deal on the Cunmins, so it gets a spot, EGT, Commanded turbo boost level in PSI, and transmission temp. In the winter, often I swap trans temp when not towing for fuel temp.

I usually run in economy or towing modes on the add on box, but don't have to. I can select Stock mode and just let the data go through it unmolested.

So, I'd keep the thing even if I weren't using its features. It shows tins of data, and the sensors it needs are well-documented, available....etc.

If you have similar toys available for your truck, you could add one of these do-it-all black boxes and a nice display, and see tons of info, and really not have to use the other power features or use them sparingly if concerned about engine life, etc.

Not being up on your engine/truck, heck there is probably a box that just does instrumentation by itself these days. A friend has a newish gasser Ford that he gets a bunch of data on the engine when he's towing his 5er from a gadget plugged into the UBDII port that sends it all via Bluetooth to his Garmin GPS. Not sure what is out there for the diesels on Ford.

Whatever way you decide keep in mind the stock guys run those hills all the time. It's doable. Slow and steady wins the race.

[bsmith0404]

My Duramax has the exhaust brake from factory, love it. All I have to do is tap the brake when I'm at the speed I want while going down hill, that's like setting the cruise. The e-brake takes over from there.

There has to be something out there. I also agree the aftermarket chip computers have great displays with a lot of data. I like the Bully Dog, but I think any of them will show you what you need to know.

[macattack]

Thanks for your feedback denver and bsmith. I already have my eye on mods for the 350 along the lines you suggest. A friend with the same exact truch replaced the exhaust, added a larger air bell, and installed a tuner/programmer, all from DPF Deletkits and found his fuel mileage leap to 25 mpg from the stock 16-17 mpg when not towing. The impediment is that there is still time on the extended warranty, but when it's gone I'll be in there with those mods.

Still can't find that elusive exhaust brake....

[denverpilot]

A co-worker today who's a Ford fan says it's because of how the turbo is done on the Fords. He says, "just downshift, it'll behave the same". I'm just sharing, no idea if he's correct or not. He is a Ford maniac. Take with a grain of salt or your choice of adult beverage.

[macattack]

My final conclusion re: Ford 6.4L diesel exhaust brake--no one makes an actual aftermarket brake, per se. However, because of the variable vane nature of the turbo on that engine, it can be used for the same purpose. BD Engine Brake, Inc. makes an electronic controller to deliver the braking using the turbo (albeit a bit pricey at about $700).

Here is an excerpt from Diesel Power Products website describing the product:
For diesel owners that do any kind of towing, having a good exhaust brake is not only a luxury, but a necessity. Unfortunately, for owners of any vehicle produced after January 1, 2007, installing an exhaust brake can potentially void your warranty and will not work properly with the emissions equipment on these vehicles. For 6.7L Dodge owners, they are fortunate enough that Dodge integrated a unique type of exhaust brake that merely controls the turbo to create back pressure. For 6.4L Ford owners, they have a similar type of turbo, but Ford never built in the programming to simply control the turbo to act as an exhaust brake. However, BD has changed this.

BD utilizes the variable vane technology by electronically closing off the turbine vanes which can create up to 130 retarding horsepower. This braking force will help to maintain your speeds on descents and curves, giving you better control of your truck and load.


The rotary switch offers three different modes:

• Stock
• Vane Control Only
• Vane Control WITH Aggressive Downshift

The 6.4L Variable Vane Exhaust Brake installs simply and easily in approximately one hour by plugging into existing factory ports, tapping one wire and by mounting the rotary switch on your dash.

[allmi01]

My 03 Excursion has the ld school Juice with attitude monitor. Up high I ran in in stock mode. Keeps teh EGT's down. My 06 F350, also with a 6.0 litre has the newer jiuce with attitude CTS monitor. Lots more available stuff to watch and monitor, defintely recommend it.

The pyro install on both is the same. I drilled and tapped the appropirate hole in the exhaust manifold behind the number 4 (drivers side near firewall) cylinder. It give the truest EGT from the cylinder. To keep shavings down, they recommend coating he tip fo the drill bit with bearing rease to collect shavings. I used continual larger bits to minimize the shavings size then used a shop vac to clean the hole before tapping. I used bering greas eon teh tap as well when cutting the treads. Both are in the install instructions.

The Ford Troqueshift and the VGT used on the 6.0 and newer powerstrokes work well. They do retard speed fairly well. With the weight you are towing, 4th or maybe even 3rd might be the ticket downhill. Same going up. Just don;t be in a hurry and all will be well. Keep the EGT's under 1250 and your are good.

Enjoy the scenery and let the truck do what the engineers designed it to do.

The newer doges with VGT's and definitely the GM's with Duramax's with teh auto transmissions all do well even without the enginge brake.

Mike