Hello from Kentucky

[JoeVMorton]

Hi,
We are looking at purchasing our 1st 5th wheel and heavily leaning towards one of the smaller Keystone models. Looking forward to meeting everyone and learning more.
Thanks,
Joe

[chuckster57]

Welcome to the forum

Glad you found us, lots of good information and loads of great people here. What will you be using as a tow vehicle?

[JoeVMorton]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Welcome to the forum

Glad you found us, lots of good information and loads of great people here. What will you be using as a tow vehicle?

We have a 2017 F250 6.7L. We have done a fair amount of horse hauling but never and RV.

[cougar23]

Welcome from middle TN. We have a 2023 Cougar 23MLE purchased at Camping World in Bowling Green Ky. It's just the wife and I and the 23MLE fits us perfect. I did have the tankless on-demand water heater replaced with a standard gas/elect. heater.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JoeVMorton

We have a 2017 F250 6.7L. We have done a fair amount of horse hauling but never and RV.

Welcome to the forum and good luck on your quest for a 5th wheel! Just looking is a lot of fun then owning and using it is even more fun. Don't forget the maintenance that comes with an rv.

As you consider 5th wheels it's important to keep the load carrying ability of the truck in mind. 5th wheels carry some heavy pin weights and can quickly overload a truck. An easy way to get an idea of where you are is to note the payload of your truck (on the yellow/white sticker inside the driver door - sometimes called carrying capacity) then take the gvwr of the proposed trailer (sometimes have to use the unloaded weight plus the carrying capacity) x 23%. In the case of the 23mle that's 9900lbs. gvwr x .23 = 2277lbs. That's an approximation of the pin weight if the trailer was loaded to gvwr. Compare that to the sticker in the door. The number on the door sticker should have enough capacity over that 2277 to allow for passengers, hitch and anything else carried in the truck. Happy hunting!

[Camping family]

Welcome and enjoy

[wiredgeorge]

What are going to pull the new camper with?

[JoeVMorton]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Welcome to the forum and good luck on your quest for a 5th wheel! Just looking is a lot of fun then owning and using it is even more fun. Don't forget the maintenance that comes with an rv.

As you consider 5th wheels it's important to keep the load carrying ability of the truck in mind. 5th wheels carry some heavy pin weights and can quickly overload a truck. An easy way to get an idea of where you are is to note the payload of your truck (on the yellow/white sticker inside the driver door - sometimes called carrying capacity) then take the gvwr of the proposed trailer (sometimes have to use the unloaded weight plus the carrying capacity) x 23%. In the case of the 23mle that's 9900lbs. gvwr x .23 = 2277lbs. That's an approximation of the pin weight if the trailer was loaded to gvwr. Compare that to the sticker in the door. The number on the door sticker should have enough capacity over that 2277 to allow for passengers, hitch and anything else carried in the truck. Happy hunting!

Thanks Danny and Susan, another member pointed that out as well. I just checked the sticker and it says GVWR: 10000 LB. It also says FRONT GVWR: 5990 LB, REAR GVWR: 6340 LB.

It's higher than what I expected.

[JoeVMorton]

Originally Posted by cougar23

Welcome from middle TN. We have a 2023 Cougar 23MLE purchased at Camping World in Bowling Green Ky. It's just the wife and I and the 23MLE fits us perfect. I did have the tankless on-demand water heater replaced with a standard gas/elect. heater.

I have been hearing a lot of good things about the 23MLE, so I am leaning more that way. It's going to mostly be just the 2 of us, but we have two grand children now, so who knows. Still thinking I will start out smaller to get used to it and then maybe trade up.

My wife is from the Bowling Green area and I noticed that they have a Camping World. We are closer to the one in Georgetown though, so we went there. It seems no one loves CW, but I don't see much choice. I guess it could be that you just see the negative posts.
Thanks,
Joe

[JoeVMorton]

Originally Posted by Camping family

Welcome and enjoy

Thanks Bob and Kay!

[JoeVMorton]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

What are going to pull the new camper with?

We have a 2019 F250 6.7L. The door sticker says GVWR 10000 LB, so I think it will work for the smaller 5th wheels that we are looking at?
Thanks,
Joe

[Gkri]

Originally Posted by JoeVMorton

We have a 2019 F250 6.7L. The door sticker says GVWR 10000 LB, so I think it will work for the smaller 5th wheels that we are looking at?
Thanks,
Joe

The critical number is the not exceed cargo number on the sticker inside the drivers door. The GVWR number includes the truck and cargo numbers combined, you need to know how much weight the TC can carry. That will be the pin weight, about 23% of the trailer dry weight plus battery, water, and everything else you put into the trailer plus passengers, etc. in the truck.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JoeVMorton

I have been hearing a lot of good things about the 23MLE, so I am leaning more that way. It's going to mostly be just the 2 of us, but we have two grand children now, so who knows. Still thinking I will start out smaller to get used to it and then maybe trade up.

My wife is from the Bowling Green area and I noticed that they have a Camping World. We are closer to the one in Georgetown though, so we went there. It seems no one loves CW, but I don't see much choice. I guess it could be that you just see the negative posts.
Thanks,
Joe

^^^^It seems that way sometimes but there are many that are happy with their CW - I am. Each CW has its own management team and the operation will be dictated by how good that team is led - some are top notch others not so much. Another very important aspect to the purchaser's/owner's happiness is their own due diligence and involvement with the dealership. If an owner/buyer just "leaves it to them" things can run off the rails pretty quickly. Know what you want in product, what to expect in pricing etc. and articulate that then run herd on them to keep them in check. Same goes for warranty work, repairs etc. The dealership in my mind is like a good dog that needs guidance. They know what you want but can easily get distracted so you have to be vigilant and on top of them to make sure they do what you want/expect. Go into the process with high expectations and let them know you have high expectations. Do not settle for dealing with a salesman if/when final haggling comes up. On my current trailer I dealt strictly with the GM of my CW. The one before was with the sales manager. The sales guy, IMO, is simply there to show me what I'm interested in.

[jxnbbl]

Welcome from NH!

[JoeVMorton]

Originally Posted by Gkri

The critical number is the not exceed cargo number on the sticker inside the drivers door. The GVWR number includes the truck and cargo numbers combined, you need to know how much weight the TC can carry. That will be the pin weight, about 23% of the trailer dry weight plus battery, water, and everything else you put into the trailer plus passengers, etc. in the truck.

Thanks, that's helpful. I was hoping that I was going to have too much truck using a 3/4 ton to pull a 1/2 ton 5th wheel. Instead it looks like the 23MLE might be pushing it a bit. Not sure I like that marketing scheme.

[JoeVMorton]

Originally Posted by sourdough

^^^^It seems that way sometimes but there are many that are happy with their CW - I am. Each CW has its own management team and the operation will be dictated by how good that team is led - some are top notch others not so much. Another very important aspect to the purchaser's/owner's happiness is their own due diligence and involvement with the dealership. If an owner/buyer just "leaves it to them" things can run off the rails pretty quickly. Know what you want in product, what to expect in pricing etc. and articulate that then run herd on them to keep them in check. Same goes for warranty work, repairs etc. The dealership in my mind is like a good dog that needs guidance. They know what you want but can easily get distracted so you have to be vigilant and on top of them to make sure they do what you want/expect. Go into the process with high expectations and let them know you have high expectations. Do not settle for dealing with a salesman if/when final haggling comes up. On my current trailer I dealt strictly with the GM of my CW. The one before was with the sales manager. The sales guy, IMO, is simply there to show me what I'm interested in.

Thanks, that seems like a sound approach!

[wiredgeorge]

This is your payload placard in the driver door frame. It states you PAYLOAD capacity and will vary depending on how your specific truck is equipped.

The Cougar 23MLE is 10K lbs gross weight which will be close to the actual weight of the trailer. The listed weight and pin weight are fantasies. Your pin weight will be about 2300 lbs based on 23 percent of the gross weight. Add hitch, stuff in the truck and passengers you are about 3000 lbs cargo and need 3000 lbs payload. That is why I recommend you have a look at the payload placard. You may or may not be OK with a 3/4 ton; safety and liability are issues.

[JoeVMorton]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

This is your payload placard in the driver door frame. It states you PAYLOAD capacity and will vary depending on how your specific truck is equipped.

The Cougar 23MLE is 10K lbs gross weight which will be close to the actual weight of the trailer. The listed weight and pin weight are fantasies. Your pin weight will be about 2300 lbs based on 23 percent of the gross weight. Add hitch, stuff in the truck and passengers you are about 3000 lbs cargo and need 3000 lbs payload. That is why I recommend you have a look at the payload placard. You may or may not be OK with a 3/4 ton; safety and liability are issues.

I posted some info that I plugged into a calculator that I found here:

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...6&postcount=19

It's definitely tight, so I would welcome any feedback on it.
Thanks,
Joe

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by JoeVMorton

I posted some info that I plugged into a calculator that I found here:

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...6&postcount=19

It's definitely tight, so I would welcome any feedback on it.
Thanks,
Joe

Answered on the other thread. The payload indicated by the sticker 34xx is the amount this truck can safely carry. The rest of the number might mean something but that payload number is usually the short pole in the tent. I had an F250 pulling a trailer almost the same size as the one you are considering (2002 Cougar 278EFS) and have no idea what the payload was (1996 model) and the truck had drum rear brakes which I could smell in the hills/canyons of the Hill Country. Now have a 2006 F350 (6.0L 4x4 LWB) and the payload is right at 4K lbs. Other than the hot rear brakes, the 7.5L gas engine pulled the camper fine. I suspect I was over whatever payload that truck had been rated for; no placard on a 1996.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Answered on the other thread. The payload indicated by the sticker 34xx is the amount this truck can safely carry. The rest of the number might mean something but that payload number is usually the short pole in the tent. I had an F250 pulling a trailer almost the same size as the one you are considering (2002 Cougar 278EFS) and have no idea what the payload was (1996 model) and the truck had drum rear brakes which I could smell in the hills/canyons of the Hill Country. Now have a 2006 F350 (6.0L 4x4 LWB) and the payload is right at 4K lbs. Other than the hot rear brakes, the 7.5L gas engine pulled the camper fine. I suspect I was over whatever payload that truck had been rated for; no placard on a 1996.

Well before 2006 most trucks didn't have payload stickers, but they had a VIN sticker which had GVWR, and front and rear GAWR. All the Payload sticker introduced about 2006, was do the math for you, taking the curb weight (with allowance for a 150# driver) and subtracting that from the GVWR.

That said the Payload sticker is only valid on an unmodified new vehicle sitting on the dealers lot!

The best way to determine CURRENT payload is to scale the vehicle loaded ready to tow, then the difference between the scaled weight and the GVWR, is the available payload for the hitch.