4wd or 2wd with locker ?

[sourdough]

You got the sticker so it is what it is, but, GM is playing funny games IMO with numbers. A 3/4 ton at 35xx lbs of payload is higher than most 3/4s and is that gas or diesel? Makes a big difference along with the other sleight of hand we get to deal with when towing.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Wohnmobil

A lot of talk here about how 3/4 tons have just a little more payload than a 1/2 ton. That may have been so many years ago, but isn’t necessarily true today.

Here are the numbers for my 2020 Silverado 2500HD 4X4 Crew Cab Standard bed.

While it’s not a 1 ton, it has quite a bit more payload than a 1/2 ton.

My 2013 F250 6.2L gas truck had a payload of 3128 pounds. But the diesel that same year same truck had a payload of 2303. Both were supercab, long bed, 4x4 XLT trucks.

Your truck is a "gas truck"... All three manufacturers have "quite hefty payloads" in their gas 3/4 ton vehicles. The "big rub" comes from adding the diesel engine which weighs in about 600-800 pounds more than the gas engine. That reduces the payload significantly, especially with the 10K GVWR limit...

GM was the first of the three to raise the GVWR limit, giving the diesel powered 3/4 ton a reasonable payload capacity. In doing that, GM ignored the "established truck class structure" and broke with the "traditional 10K GVWR for class 2 and put their "class 2 vehicle in class 3". Does it make a difference? In some situations, depending on where you live, registration, titling, insurance and even ability to park the vehicle in your driveway can become an issue.

Ford and RAM have followed suit, so now all three manufacturers are "exceeding the traditional class 2 truck gvwr (6001 - 10000 pounds).

As an example, your truck has a GVWR of 10650 pounds. If GM had continued with the traditional truck class structure, that would reduce your payload by 650 pounds, then if equipped with a diesel, it would further reduce the payload another 800 pounds. That would be a 1450 pound reduction to your 3564, bringing it down to 2114, right in the "middle of the ballpark for "prior year 3/4 ton trucks from all three manufacturers.....

I realize the greater payload benefits owners, but the question becomes, "What is the impact of the truck class structure change going to have on the future of trucks in general?" When you consider the fuel economy mandates, the class structure changes put smaller vehicles in a larger class. When manufacturers sell as many 3/4 ton trucks as they do, how will that change the "fleet average" and what reductions to production will be mandated to keep the "fleet average" below the EPA mandates for future years ???

Einstein said, "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"....

I suppose, in future years, we'll see if breaking the truck class structure imposes some issues for purchasers so the manufacturers can "make a quick buck by increasing payload by changing GVWR and violating the class structure"..... WHEW....

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Wohnmobil

A lot of talk here about how 3/4 tons have just a little more payload than a 1/2 ton. That may have been so many years ago, but isn’t necessarily true today.

Here are the numbers for my 2020 Silverado 2500HD 4X4 Crew Cab Standard bed.

While it’s not a 1 ton, it has quite a bit more payload than a 1/2 ton.

Well in reality your 2500 is a 3500 as it is a class 3 truck because it’s GVWR is between 10,000 and 14,000#. The 3,564# payload would be 650# less if a true 10,000# GVWR 2500, or 2,914#.

[RogerThat99]

All the people talking about payload, pin weight, and towing capacity, have obviously never been in SoCal.

Every 45' Toy Hauler (loaded with toys) headed to Glamis is being towed by a 3/4 diesel with a 6" to 10" lift on 35" to 40" tires. [emoji3][emoji3]

I think the CHP is starting to crack down on that.

I am aware this Raptor is probably 38' with a garage, but I couldn't find a pic of a 40' + toy hauler with a sand car in it.

[skunked again]

The 2021, one ton, ford, extended cab, long bed, 2wd, 6.2L we test drove was nice. Actually, they've all been nice! If I remember correctly, it had a 4400# payload. It didn't have many options, which is what im after.
The payments were nice also. We did talk numbers with that dealer. I just can't bring myself to get a 2wd, even with rear differential lock.
All replies have been read. I truly appreciate all your input.
I've now test driven all three brands of three quarter ton, and one ton. In a couple of cab and bed configurations. Correction - for Chevy I've only driven a 3/4 ton. The only one tons for chevy I've found are $70k +, not doing that!! All have there pros and cons.


With some of the recent political "events", I'm putting our search on hold. See how things play out.

[wiredgeorge]

Took a pic of my missus walking pooches back to our camper. Our camper is the small fifth wheel between the Class A and very large Dutchmen Infinity 5th wheel. Spoke with the guy and they travel all over the US and pull that thing with a Ram 3/4 crew cab. Given the size of their RV, suspect it is moving in on 17K lbs or MORE. We spoke briefly when I was setting up Thursday and don't know the fella well enough to break the news that he is overloaded big time. Many of the HUGE 5th wheels in any park have 3/4 tons pulling them.

[German Shepherd Guy]

I grew up on a farm in central Illinois. Corn & soybeans. We never owned a 4X4 truck. All the trucks on the farm were heavy 1 & 2 tons with a locking differential. We got in and out of the fields hauling heavy loads on a regular basis. That said it was the 1950's and technology has changed a lot. Not sure you can even get a true locker anymore. Maybe as an aftermarket add on? A 4X4 is after all a vehicle capable of having power to two wheels. Usually one in the front and one in the rear. A true locking differential gives power to two wheels also. Two in the rear. If you are going to buy a truck get the heaviest payload you can afford for hauling. 4X4 versus locker? Again I am not convinced you can really buy a locker from the factory, just because I have not seen one in decades. But if you can then my experience from the farm is it will, like a 4X4, get you stuck where no 2wd vehicle can go.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Took a pic of my missus walking pooches back to our camper. Our camper is the small fifth wheel between the Class A and very large Dutchmen Infinity 5th wheel. Spoke with the guy and they travel all over the US and pull that thing with a Ram 3/4 crew cab. Given the size of their RV, suspect it is moving in on 17K lbs or MORE. We spoke briefly when I was setting up Thursday and don't know the fella well enough to break the news that he is overloaded big time. Many of the HUGE 5th wheels in any park have 3/4 tons pulling them.

Seems your observation is true no matter where you go. It's almost like I'm back in 1960 again and the old thoughts of "a truck's a truck" - and I've got a TRUCK! Put a diesel in it so it will pull whatever you put behind it, put HD on the fender and who cares (knows?) about weights; a thousand pounds in the bed or 10k, it'll "pull" it.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Took a pic of my missus walking pooches back to our camper. Our camper is the small fifth wheel between the Class A and very large Dutchmen Infinity 5th wheel. Spoke with the guy and they travel all over the US and pull that thing with a Ram 3/4 crew cab. Given the size of their RV, suspect it is moving in on 17K lbs or MORE. We spoke briefly when I was setting up Thursday and don't know the fella well enough to break the news that he is overloaded big time. Many of the HUGE 5th wheels in any park have 3/4 tons pulling them.

I'm quite sure his response would've been "well it tows it just fine" &/or "that truck's rated to tow XXXXX lbs & I'm under that!". Then when you were gone he's telling his DW "that jerks trying to tell me my trucks too lightweight, can you believe the nerve of that know it all!".

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

I'm quite sure his response would've been "well it tows it just fine" &/or "that truck's rated to tow XXXXX lbs & I'm under that!". Then when you were gone he's telling his DW "that jerks trying to tell me my trucks too lightweight, can you believe the nerve of that know it all!".

Yep! That 2500 Ram likely is rated to tow about 17,000# to 19,000#, so rated to get moving and have the necessary braking for that weight trails, with TV at full GVWR.
That said not sure if the suspension is able to carry the pin of a 17K 5er, worse yet can the tires carry the load.

Many blissfully tow like that and never hit the scales, the truck is rated to tow that much!

They think air bags will solve their problems! Unless they are so far over tire rating that they get squiggly, the 5er will never tell the operator that he is overweight.

[rakearns1]

My 2001 F260 diesel has a "limited slip" differential. One thing people don't mention is if those 2 back wheels spin the same time your truck can move sideways. I got caught up in a tight spot. I only had about a foot clearance in the spot. The snow wasn't too deep but had ice under it. I kept sliding into a cable because of the limited slip. I ended up jacking my truck up to put chains on. This is unusual. If I was any where else in the open I could of just drove on.

[Pete54401]

Originally Posted by skunked again

Thanks all for the replies!
Just had a vehicle salesman tell us that a 3/4 or one ton, given how much they weigh, with a rear locker, will go almost anywhere a 4x4 will go.
I have limited experience with a 3/4 or one ton. Any truth to that?

My second favorite favorite saying is, "You'll never be sorry you have a locking/limited slip rear axle, but you may be sorry you didn't have it." That said, it is NOT just as good or almost as good as 4x4. In this part of the country 4x2's are rare birds and hard to sell new or used. So the question is where you'll be driving your truck. My first favorite saying is, "You'll never be sorry you have 4-wheel drive if you need it but you'll always be sorry you don't have it when you need it."

As far as 3/4 or 1-ton, for the 'big 3" it boils down to payload capacity and GCWR as most powertrain combos will have the same tow rating (assuming same engine, trans, axle) whether 3/4 or 1-ton.

[Jim Aitken]

I've had several situations where 4wd was needed to move our 5th wheel when it was parked on wet grass, especially if it had been parked for a few days and the wheels had settled into the ground a bit,

[Campbell701]

Getting back to differential locker Eaton has made and supplied a mech locker since early 70’s for GM on 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton trucks. Early 2000’s a hydraulic and elocker were also provided to others OEM (Jeep and Ford). In the last 10 yrs there is also many other suppliers that provide similar product. A locker in a 2 wheel drive truck is a must.
The other type of differentials are either an open or various limited slip which are limited to amount a torque that can be applied to the axle shafts.
A 2wd vs a 4 wd is no match, the 4 wd will most of time have the upper hand.
As several have already said each type of drive system has their own specific application
Lc

[skunked again]

Thank you! That settles it, 4wd it is!
As for 3/4 or 1 ton, that will depend on what we find, whenever we find it!!

[LERD]

Originally Posted by skunked again

Thank you! That settles it, 4wd it is!
As for 3/4 or 1 ton, that will depend on what we find, whenever we find it!!

Good. Because the e-locker locks the wheels solid and you will NOT be able to steer. That is only meant for a very short straight ahead distance. I've dealt with pneumatic lockers on Internationals and Freightliners for years now. That's only to quickly get unstuck, then shut them off just as quickly.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rakearns1

My 2001 F260 diesel has a "limited slip" differential. One thing people don't mention is if those 2 back wheels spin the same time your truck can move sideways. I got caught up in a tight spot. I only had about a foot clearance in the spot. The snow wasn't too deep but had ice under it. I kept sliding into a cable because of the limited slip. I ended up jacking my truck up to put chains on. This is unusual. If I was any where else in the open I could of just drove on.

Back "years ago" before the upgrades to "4 wheeling became OEM components", I had a 1973 Dodge Power Wagon with "full time 4 wheel drive". That system, as I understood it, had three "limited slip differentials". One in the front axle, one in the rear axle and one in the transfer case. So, essentially, the truck was "4 wheels capable of being driven but only one wheel at a time"...

The way it worked, I believe, was the engine powered the transmission that powered the transfer case differential. Primary power was to the rear axle. If one wheel "slipped" power was applied to the other wheel on that axle. If both wheels "slipped" power at the transfer case applied power to the front axle where the same thing occurred. If both front axle wheels were slipping, the transfer case applied power back to the rear axle and if they were slipping, back to the front axle. The cycle continued as long as the wheels were slipping, so essentially, it was a "full time one wheel drive system"....

There were no "hub locks" on the truck, so no way to "lock in/lock out" any wheel. Best gas mileage I ever got was around 10MPG and I spent as much time with the front drive shaft U joints disconnected and the drive shaft "tied to the motor mount"... Axle "windup" was a killer for the front U joint....

Trucks, they have improved over the years !!!!!

[NMRandy]

One thing I do like about the 4x4, is the low side gear. I have had a couple of situations where the first few feet were uphill and on gravel. I would put it in 4 low, and just ease out of the spot without having to stand on the go pedal. You don't want to do that on any kind of pavement, because it is very hard on the drivetrain, but it works good on gravel.