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Old 12-30-2019, 08:26 AM   #1
bim6180
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Future Passport 239ML Owner

Hi all,

My first post in this forum - just joined today after being referred by someone in my Chevy / GMC Forum.

We're about to purchase 2020 Passport 239ML, and will be towing with a 2019 GMC Canyon Denali, Crew Cab long bed with v6. I've received many great towing advice from the GMC forum, but just curious if anyone here has a similar set up with this trailer with similar truck.

As long as I don't load the trailer to its max capacity, I should be right at the max payload of my truck, which is 1,300 lbs (including my family and tongue weight)

Here is my initial number breakdown:

Canyon Denali CCLB
V6 4x4
Typical load when towing: Family of 5 (3 little girls), approx. 520 lbs total / 4 bikes in the truck bed, approx. 110 lbs
Max payload according to door-jamb sticker is 1,300 lbs. After passengers and bikes above, left-over payload is approx. 670 lbs
Towing capacity of V6 is 7,000 lbs
Will use Andersen WD Hitch

Passport 239ML placard info:
UVW = 4,390 lbs
GVWR = 5,400lbs (planning to just load it up to 5,000 for this truck - so basically 600lbs of propane tanks, batteries, clothes, and "stuff")
12% tongue weight at 5,000 lbs GVWR = 600 lbs

Planning to travel with no water in tank since we only go to campground with full hookup for now (until I get a bigger truck in 2 years)

Let me know what you guys think about this setup.

Thanks all, and look forward to learn more from this forum.
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:43 AM   #2
bsmith0404
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The passport is a nice light weight trailer with spread axle. That helps with stability. You’re also adding a good WDH with good sway control. I think you will be just fine. Try to avoid high winds, don’t want to get the tail wagging. Enjoy your new Passport. The 239 is a very nice little family trailer.
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:48 AM   #3
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Welcome to the forum! The numbers you post appear to be ok but you are very close to your payload and towing limits. You are basing your calculations on estimates and there is not much of a margin for error. If you get the trailer, load everything up and go to a scale to see where you really are weight wise. I think that trailer is about 24 feet long? That might be a bit of a challenge for a smaller truck. The canyon is considered a compact truck if I’m not mistaken?

Honestly, I would be very cautious about towing a trailer that big with a smaller truck. I personally would not do it but if you go ahead with it here are some things to consider.

Make sure you put light truck tires on the truck instead of passenger tires and make sure you have a trailer brake controller installed. I would get a very good weight distribution hitch with built in sway control.

Good luck!
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:13 AM   #4
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I’m with LoganX on this one. I think you will be close if not over some of your weights when fully loaded. My first travel trailer was a Passport 238ML (predecessor to 239ML) and I towed it with a 2WD crew cab Sierra with the small V8 and 3:23 rear end. When fully loaded I was right at the trucks GCWR of 10000. It towed and stopped well. I just didn’t feel comfortable knowing I had no safety margin. I ended up trading for a better truck. The passport is a good little family rig. Make sure you check the seals on the roof and clearance lights.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:22 AM   #5
flybouy
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First welcome to the forum. If you want confirmation that "you're good to go" stop reading now, you'll just get disappointed or angry.

If you are looking for an honest opinion read on. I think that with a mid sized truck, 2 adults and 3 small children you will be hard pressed to match the numbers you have given. 600 lbs of cargo total? Is that realistic? I don't see the weight for the hitch (about 150lbs).

Here's what I'd suggest you do.... Get some moving boxes that will fit on a bathroom scale. Now load them and weigh them on a bathroom scale. Let's see what the "average" family of 5 will be taking along. Box#
1. Linens for the beds incl. sheets, blankets, and pillows, towels for the bathroom.
2. Food and drink for the weekend (kids love juice boxes, adults "adult beverages"
3. Clothing, I have 2 girls (grown with families of their own now) and I know they would go thru some clothing, and don't forget the sweatshirts, swimsuits, shopes, boots, etc.
4. Toiletries for the bathroom like toilet paper, shampoo (with girls that's just one of the many hair care products) toothpaste, bath soap, hand soap, etc.
5. First aid kit incl the first aid stuff not in the kit like hydrogen peroxide, sun tan lotion, sun burn treatment, bug spray, bug bite treatment, antiseptic, etc.
6. Kitchen supplies such as coffee maker, pot & pans, plates, cups, bowls, eating utensils, cooking utensils (can opener, spatula, oven mitts, etc.),
7. Indoor Entertainment like DVDs, games, toys, books, batteries for all that.
8. Outdoor Entertainment - chairs? flashlights, outdoor games, campfire fire tools and cooking supplies like smores & hot dog sticks etc.
9. Water hose & filter, waste hoses and fittings, few tools, maybe an axe,holding tank chemicals, etc.

So that's the SHORT list of things that will most likely end up inside the camper. I'm guessing inside the truck you have left off a few items like snacks/drinks for the road, maps, toys for the little ones during the drive, car seats? Tools? Aftermarket floor mats?

EVERYTHING you place inside the truck or trailer that wasn't there when it rolled off the assembly line is part of the "cargo" and must be factored in.

I think if you take the time to weigh the list that you'll take along it will be eye opening. And remember, it's cumulative so the next trip when you take the "forgotten items", the "must haves" and the "gee we could really use" stuff get's added to the initial number.

That addresses the weight. Now the truck to trailer size ratio. Years ago I had a Chevy S10 pulling a 21' Keystone Cabana Hybrid. I know your truck is far superior to that but the wheel base is still short. When I towed with that setup (using a WD hitch with sway control), LKT tires, Hellwig helper springs, aftermarket shocks) it was a white knuckle experience anytime any vehicle with more than 2 wheels passed me. If the wind moved a leaf it was a challenge. I'm relating my experience, others may tell you "you'll be fine" but I won't.

Good luck with your search and camper purchase and I hope you make great memories and have safe travels.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:06 AM   #6
bim6180
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Thanks all for the great insight. For the load (600lbs ish), I'm basing this on what we usually bring when we tent camping in terms of clothing, pots and pans, etc. Realizing the truck will be at its limit for payload (still room to go for towing with 7000 lbs capacity and GVWR of the trailer at 5500), we are planning to pack as if we're going tent camping (usually around 3-4 luggages at 35 lbs a piece)

The trailer is 25'5" bumper to bumper, and my truck is 18.7ft long with 11.7ft of wheelbase. GCVWR for this truck is 12,000 lbs (with the truck GVWR at 6000 lbs). With this measurement, do you think the truck is grossly undersized for this size of trailer? Oh, and yes, I have a brake controller as well.

When I pick up the trailer, I'm planning to do a cat-scale measurement to get a "baseline" weight so I know exactly how much I can load the trailer.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:06 AM   #7
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This thread is too friendly already guys!

I get to be first this time! Never have been FIRST to tell the guy he needs a ONE TON DUALLY WITH DIESEL ENGINE! Maybe some airbags or helper springs...

There. I did it. One more item off the bucket list.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:07 AM   #8
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Personally, I think your weight estimates of 600 lbs for gear are just fine. You don’t have much storage space in the 239 so you will be limiting your family on everything they bring, either that or you will be sleeping in a tent alongside your new 239 Passport cargo trailer. Yes your truck is short wheelbase and that is the biggest concern. You already know you need a bigger truck with plans to get one in the near future. Sooner rather than later is better, but in the mean time, your truck is capable, maybe not ideal, but capable.

BTW, people with large 5th wheels and huge storage areas tend to bring along about 1200-1500 lbs of gear, probably about 500-900 of it is overkill just because they have the room and can. Pack like you’re rent camping.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:18 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by bsmith0404 View Post
Personally, I think your weight estimates of 600 lbs for gear are just fine. You don’t have much storage space in the 239 so you will be limiting your family on everything they bring, either that or you will be sleeping in a tent alongside your new 239 Passport cargo trailer. Yes your truck is short wheelbase and that is the biggest concern. You already know you need a bigger truck with plans to get one in the near future. Sooner rather than later is better, but in the mean time, your truck is capable, maybe not ideal, but capable.

BTW, people with large 5th wheels and huge storage areas tend to bring along about 1200-1500 lbs of gear, probably about 500-900 of it is overkill just because they have the room and can. Pack like you’re rent camping.
That was a buzz kill! The stuff in our 5ver pass through is useful to about 2.5' in and then what is in the middle is sort of a mystery. Was stuff that seemed critical but when it gets into the middle few feet never gets touched. Seriously, sounded like the OP will have a ball with with the kiddos!
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:18 AM   #10
bim6180
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Flybouy - Thanks for the detailed post. I'll definitely do a "dry" run on packing to see where we are. Again, basing it on what we do when we tent camp, 600 lbs of gear is actually more than what we usually bring

bsmith - I just checked our wheelbase, and it's actually only 7 inches shorter than a 1500 Silverado crew cab with short bed.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:40 AM   #11
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Welcome to the forum as well....and I have to agree with Marshall.

Let's just put the numbers up for the truck - max tow 7000 (meaningless). Payload 1300. With 5 people (3 children).

Trailer gvw 5400. Dry 4390. You have approx. 1k lbs. for everything needed for a family of 5.

Family of 5 520lbs. Children gain weight every single day (and in a small truck??). 4 bikes 110lbs. Remaining payload after the above 670.

This is more like the real life situation;

5 people - 620 (light)
Bikes - 110
Tools (must) - 50
Hitch (mandatory) - 125
Misc. in cab - 30
Ice Chest - 30

If we stop there you will be packing up the trailer with things you can't put in the truck and still leave things at home you want.

Trailer - 4390 dry
Trailer gvw - 5400

You have 1,010lbs. of carrying capacity in the trailer for all your possessions...for 5 people...for what you can't put in the truck. You will use it up. For 2 of us we carry at least 1200 in the trailer and at least 500 in the truck (other than us and puppy).

With just those basics we can revisit;

Truck payload - 1300
People, stuff and hitch - 965
Remaining payload = 335

Trailer gvw - 5400 x .12 = 648

In this scenario you are 313 over payload while packing light and leaving stuff at home.

Now the drive/tow. I've not driven a Canyon but I have a Colorado. I've towed with neither but I have towed with a short wheelbase vehicle. I can tell you it is not fun with one...and I've not towed a 26' trailer. Heck, I was white knuckling pulling a 5500 lb., 24' trailer with a 1/2 ton long bed years ago.

Not trying to be negative, just realistic. And remember you are taking 3 children with you - safety should be paramount. The Canyon is a little pickup for little jobs - nothing more and nothing less. With a regular 1/2 ton you might be able to improve things with HD shocks, LT tires, air bags etc., I'm not sure you can do that with a compact truck.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:08 AM   #12
bim6180
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Welcome to the forum as well....and I have to agree with Marshall.

Let's just put the numbers up for the truck - max tow 7000 (meaningless). Payload 1300. With 5 people (3 children).

Trailer gvw 5400. Dry 4390. You have approx. 1k lbs. for everything needed for a family of 5.

Family of 5 520lbs. Children gain weight every single day (and in a small truck??). 4 bikes 110lbs. Remaining payload after the above 670.

This is more like the real life situation;

5 people - 620 (light)
Bikes - 110
Tools (must) - 50
Hitch (mandatory) - 125
Misc. in cab - 30
Ice Chest - 30

If we stop there you will be packing up the trailer with things you can't put in the truck and still leave things at home you want.

Trailer - 4390 dry
Trailer gvw - 5400

You have 1,010lbs. of carrying capacity in the trailer for all your possessions...for 5 people...for what you can't put in the truck. You will use it up. For 2 of us we carry at least 1200 in the trailer and at least 500 in the truck (other than us and puppy).

With just those basics we can revisit;

Truck payload - 1300
People, stuff and hitch - 965
Remaining payload = 335

Trailer gvw - 5400 x .12 = 648

In this scenario you are 313 over payload while packing light and leaving stuff at home.

Now the drive/tow. I've not driven a Canyon but I have a Colorado. I've towed with neither but I have towed with a short wheelbase vehicle. I can tell you it is not fun with one...and I've not towed a 26' trailer. Heck, I was white knuckling pulling a 5500 lb., 24' trailer with a 1/2 ton long bed years ago.

Not trying to be negative, just realistic. And remember you are taking 3 children with you - safety should be paramount. The Canyon is a little pickup for little jobs - nothing more and nothing less. With a regular 1/2 ton you might be able to improve things with HD shocks, LT tires, air bags etc., I'm not sure you can do that with a compact truck.
Thanks for this. But to get to 620lbs for family of 5, I have to literally gain 100 lbs . Even if I add 5 lbs to each of our kids, we're still at 535 lbs total. And our Andersen hitch only weighs about 57 lbs for the complete system - another reason we do not go with the equalizer WD hitch to save some weight.

Tools will be in the trailer, and ice chest will be empty - we buy stuff when we get to the campground.

For bikes, it's on the high side for margin of error, but I should be able to move some smaller kid bikes into the trailer, and just put my have enduro bike and my wife's gravel bike in the truck bed - that will only be around 60lbs or so.
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Old 12-30-2019, 01:19 PM   #13
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Ok, I did a little more breakdown based on what Sourdough laid out above, and here is what I came up with:
Truck
Payload = 1,300 (based on truck placard)
Passengers = 535 (this is after adding 5 lbs to each of our kids and 10lbs between my wife and I - so will be less in reality)
Andersen Hitch = 60lbs (rounded up - real weight is more like 56-57 lbs)
Two bikes = 62lbs
Other stuff (snack, car seats, etc) = 30 lbs
Available payload after all of these = 613 lbs

Travel Trailer
UVW based on placard = 4,390
Batteries and full propane tanks = 200
Tools = 50
Kids bikes = 49 (I've weighted these myself)
Clothing = 160lbs (4 bags at 40 lbs each, which is more than we usually pack for tent camping)
Food in the fridge & and paper goods (plates, toilet paper, paper towel, camping pots and pans, etc) = 150 lbs (again, more than we usually bring or tent camping)

This will give me a "loaded" trailer weight of approximately 5,000 lbs - which is what I'm aiming for to keep my "tongue weight" in check. So, Tongue weight at 12% is approximately 600 lbs, which is slightly below the "available payload" of 613.

Anything else I'm missing here?

My goal is to use this truck for the next 2 years. When the lease is up, I'll upgrade to 1/2 ton truck. Based on these numbers, it seems doable, especially since I'm not planning on a cross-country road trip. Just 3-4 hour drive to a campground for now.
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Old 12-30-2019, 01:48 PM   #14
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You have done a very thorough analysis and you will probably be acceptable to take the short trips you are planning. I would be skeptical of handling that trailer through anything more than very mild hills though. And even though you should be fine on weights, the length of trailer to size of truck could cause your experience to be less than ideal. You might not have a great experience just from a sway/handling experience even though you will probably be good on weights.

You might want to check on some better tires though. Even though you don't need full LT tires for your setup, a middle road tire like the Defender (stouter than P rated tires but not a full LT tire) would likely provide a substantially better experience over the standard P rated tire that is likely on the truck. Happy trails with your adventures!
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Old 12-30-2019, 01:57 PM   #15
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You have done a very thorough analysis and you will probably be acceptable to take the short trips you are planning. I would be skeptical of handling that trailer through anything more than very mild hills though. And even though you should be fine on weights, the length of trailer to size of truck could cause your experience to be less than ideal. You might not have a great experience just from a sway/handling experience even though you will probably be good on weights.

You might want to check on some better tires though. Even though you don't need full LT tires for your setup, a middle road tire like the Defender (stouter than P rated tires but not a full LT tire) would likely provide a substantially better experience over the standard P rated tire that is likely on the truck. Happy trails with your adventures!
Thanks - I will definitely look into that. On length of trailer to truck ratio, what is the norm? Mine is about 140.5" of wheelbase
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Old 12-30-2019, 02:08 PM   #16
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This thread is too friendly already guys!

I get to be first this time! Never have been FIRST to tell the guy he needs a ONE TON DUALLY WITH DIESEL ENGINE! Maybe some airbags or helper springs...

There. I did it. One more item off the bucket list.
Nothing like waiting until end of the year to slide in.
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Old 12-30-2019, 02:11 PM   #17
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1. Take it to a CAT scale and weigh it!
2. Weigh the truck, weigh the trailer, and weigh the comb.
3. Go slow and enjoy.
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Old 12-30-2019, 02:15 PM   #18
bim6180
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1. Take it to a CAT scale and weigh it!
2. Weigh the truck, weigh the trailer, and weigh the comb.
3. Go slow and enjoy.
Yes sir - already planning to do that as soon as I've picked up the trailer to give me a baseline reading. Then will do another set of weight with it loaded for camping.
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Old 12-30-2019, 04:44 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by bim6180 View Post
Thanks for this. But to get to 620lbs for family of 5, I have to literally gain 100 lbs . Even if I add 5 lbs to each of our kids, we're still at 535 lbs total. And our Andersen hitch only weighs about 57 lbs for the complete system - another reason we do not go with the equalizer WD hitch to save some weight.

Tools will be in the trailer, and ice chest will be empty - we buy stuff when we get to the campground.

For bikes, it's on the high side for margin of error, but I should be able to move some smaller kid bikes into the trailer, and just put my have enduro bike and my wife's gravel bike in the truck bed - that will only be around 60lbs or so.
I hope it works for you. You don't give ages/weights etc. of the 3 kids but if they only account for say 220 (150 ea. for you and DW) they only weigh approx. 73 lbs. apiece....not realistic to me. My son went from about 90 lbs. to 200 seemingly in a year or so and he had zero fat. But, if you think the entire family will only grow 100lbs. over the years....that's optimism. In 2 years, I don't know depending on their ages and yours.

It appears you've tried to analyze this, picked a trailer you're going to get, keep the compact truck you have and "make" it work. Lots of folks do; I have even though I felt unsafe. Certainly not optimal.

You say you have 2 years before your lease is up. That means nothing. Go ahead and trade it back for a larger truck. Just returned my leased SUV a year early, had fewer miles than the residual mandated and got 8k more for it on trade in than what the residual called for in a year. You aren't locked into that timeline nor the ending price. Your call - the family will love you for it.
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Old 12-30-2019, 05:12 PM   #20
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yeah, my girls are 3 (35 lbs plus car seat),6 (48 lbs plus booster) and 8 (57 lbs), and my wife and I haven't changed in weight for the past 3 years - hence the low total passenger weight.
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