Diesel Truck Wars

[rnkburg]

I'm a cummins guy all the way. I love the sound and yes I am the guy you all hate. I hate stock. We turn them all up some for towing some for playing. I have a 12 valve cummins that will make mustangs run back to the barn with there tail tucked. However Unless it's an aisin tranny get the manual. As far as duramax. I love the option of efi live for custom tunes. It is a towing beast with just a little tweaking and keeping the stock Allison safe. Ford. Well we tow them in a lot. 7.3 is most dependable of the bunch but as much as I hate to admit it the scorpion in the new trucks is quite amazing and for a stock truck it tows very well. I am not a fan of all this epa @&&&. It drives me insane I look for the trucks with the least epa junk on them and make them the way I want them. Still it's cheaper to do that vs buying a 65000 truck

Buying brand new probably go dodge again. Best deals on those trucks and the cummins is my favorite




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[rnkburg]

I currently tow with a lb7 duramax dually and the only thing I wish it had was an exhaust brake which I will probably add soon. As far as sound goes. 12 valve has no muffler at all and duramax runs a mbrp system which makes it sound much better. Biggest complaint on Chevy is the electronics for creature comforts are very finicky and require attention a lot. Not to mention the brake lines rusting out.

Dodge is tranny and front end




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[Desert185]

Originally Posted by rnkburg

I'm a cummins guy all the way. I love the sound and yes I am the guy you all hate. I hate stock. We turn them all up some for towing some for playing. I have a 12 valve cummins that will make mustangs run back to the barn with there tail tucked. However Unless it's an aisin tranny get the manual. As far as duramax. I love the option of efi live for custom tunes. It is a towing beast with just a little tweaking and keeping the stock Allison safe. Ford. Well we tow them in a lot. 7.3 is most dependable of the bunch but as much as I hate to admit it the scorpion in the new trucks is quite amazing and for a stock truck it tows very well. I am not a fan of all this epa @&&&. It drives me insane I look for the trucks with the least epa junk on them and make them the way I want them. Still it's cheaper to do that vs buying a 65000 truck

Buying brand new probably go dodge again. Best deals on those trucks and the cummins is my favorite


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That pretty much nails my thoughts on this subject, except I haven't had problems with the front ends. The Dodges get it done simply with hardly any issues. My 24 valve never even had a cat. Put an exhaust brake and a mandrel bent Magnaflow 4" system on it and go from there.

Interesting to hear everyone's opinions on their ride preference. It speaks loudly for the kind of individual they are.

Desert185

Cherry '94 12 valve with Suncoast built 47RH (for sale) and signature 24 valve with FAST cooled NV5600 (except for MAYBE the Aisin, stock Chrysler trannies no bueno. Buy a used one with an aftermarket auto or put one in yourself...issues gone and money for diesel in your pocket vs buying new)

[Javi]

Had Dodge Ram/Cummins, had Chevy/GMC D'max, had Ford 7.3 now have Ford 6.7 and I'm happy..

first 4 Cummins ran great, trucks fell apart...

D'max ran great, just couldn't walk after I got out of the driver's seat.. traded it off the third day I had it for another Cummins

Got a used 7.3 Ford it ran great but had no bottom, went back to Cummins after a year.

Finally got a 6.7 in '12 ain't going no where from here except maybe a dually

I keep them stock... I had my hotrod days in my teens and if I need more truck I'll get a Kenworth W900

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by Javi

Had Dodge Ram/Cummins, had Chevy/GMC D'max, had Ford 7.3 now have Ford 6.7 and I'm happy..

first 4 Cummins ran great, trucks fell apart...

D'max ran great, just couldn't walk after I got out of the driver's seat.. traded it off the third day I had it for another Cummins

Got a used 7.3 Ford it ran great but had no bottom, went back to Cummins after a year.

Finally got a 6.7 in '12 ain't going no where from here except maybe a dually

I keep them stock... I had my hotrod days in my teens and if I need more truck I'll get a Kenworth W900

Javi,
You have to be the first person I've ever heard say the GM was a comfort issue for you so you went to a Cummins....Can you elaborate more on what the problem was/may have been?

Also it seems like you had plenty of Dodge's, but kept looking for something different. You say the "trucks fell apart" what kind of problems did you experience? The biggest complaints from people I know are the seats and front ends. Have a buddy who can change the front wheel bearings out in the parking lot in under an hour....he's had a lot of practice.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Javi,
You have to be the first person I've ever heard say the GM was a comfort issue for you so you went to a Cummins....Can you elaborate more on what the problem was/may have been?

Also it seems like you had plenty of Dodge's, but kept looking for something different. You say the "trucks fell apart" what kind of problems did you experience? The biggest complaints from people I know are the seats and front ends. Have a buddy who can change the front wheel bearings out in the parking lot in under an hour....he's had a lot of practice.

The Chevy, seat was a nightmare on my back. Understand I wasn't using the truck as a daily commuter to and from the office. My typical day was hauling heavy bumper pull or gooseneck trailers on back roads and washboard gravel country roads. My average mileage for a year was 90-100 K ..

After 5 or 6 hours in the seat I couldn't even stand up straight when I got out of the Chevy to fuel. After playing with the seat for 3 days trying to find a comfortable adjustment. Drove it into the nearest Dodge dealer and traded it on the spot, had hitches installed and hooked back up to the trailer and took off.. My back still hurts thinking about that Chevy.

The Dodges would start to wonder all over the road at about 50-60K and I'd have our mechanic rebuild the front end, but after about 80K the body started rattling and the doors started getting sloppy so I'd swap to another new one.. The first two were stick shift but the last two were automatics and I never had a single problem with the transmissions despite the fact that I regularly hauled 10K+ on an almost daily basis.

It really wasn't costing me much out of pocket anyway, the mileage paid for the trucks.

Now I'm footing the bill and I went and drove a new Dodge and a new Chevy then drove a Ford... bought the Ford and ain't looked back since..

[jsmith948]

1300 RPM @ 57 MPH. All day long getting 13.5 to 14 mpg towing our 282 RESWE & 20 MPG empty. Happy, Happy, Happy.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by Javi

The Dodges would start to wonder all over the road at about 50-60K and I'd have our mechanic rebuild the front end, but after about 80K the body started rattling and the doors started getting sloppy so I'd swap to another new one.. The first two were stick shift but the last two were automatics and I never had a single problem with the transmissions despite the fact that I regularly hauled 10K+ on an almost daily basis.

I have changed out a lot of ball joints, tie rod ends, and center links on mid-late 90's Dodges between 50-60k miles. Have also seen a few on the side of the road with a broken ball joint. Don't know if the new ones are any better. I do know Dodge finally did a recall on some of their vehicles for that problem back around 2003-04. Maybe they have fixed that problem on the newer ones.

[GaryWT]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Ahh one of those.....Don't forget about GMC. The combined numbers of Chevy and GMC actually outsold Ford F series in 2008/2009 (not sure how many years prior, the data I found only breaks down individual years back to 2008). Fords "best selling truck" is all hype, well kind of. Actual numbers for Ford and GM sales since 1998 are 11,931,954 and 11,906,396 respectively. That's an annual average of 745,747 and 744,150 respectively. I don't know how many trucks Dodge sells, but it has to be more that 2k per year.

Now with GMs "longest lasting trucks on the road" campaign, I guess that just means more Ford parts are available in the salvage yards. I'm sure your son is willing to go pick those up for you

Remember, thick skin folks.

Here we go, I make a general comment and now my truck is junk. That is the problem. Gam and Chevy are the same thing in my book and it is my sons truck repairs that will put me in the poor house. I do not really care that he has a Chevy, it iS just a fun family thing. As I said originally, I am just a Ford person.

[ncgrl1]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I'm not sure which year Dodge and Ford finally got the rattle traps to quiet down, but until the Dmax came out I think everyone just assumed if you wanted diesel you had to put up with the noise. If anyone has the info on the "quiet" year cutoffs for each, that would be good info to add. I know if I was searching for a used Dodge, it'd have to be after the noise reduction.

There has got to be more people than myself who actually like the "rattle trap" sound you refer to. To me, it sounds like a diesel is supposed to sound.
Yes, I would only buy a Ram truck, but I am not totally brand oriented. We also have 2 Volkswagen diesels...06 & 14.

[hankpage]

I told myself I was going to stay out of this ,BUT:

"Real Trucks Rattle"

I miss my 12 valve, but the power gains with the 24v common rail was just too tempting.

[therink]

For what it's worth, as I am in the market for a new truck and today test drove a 15 F350 Lariat Powerstroke Crew. Beautiful truck, loaded up, engine awesome. I did not like the seat or the way it handled. It was all over the road if not paying attention. The steering in the my 3500HD is much tighter and reponsive. It was also much rougher riding than the GM, which is likely due to solid front axle on the Super Duty.
Another thing I noticed was that the payload in the F350 SRW I drove was only 3400. Mine is 3950. Must be the added diesel weight and it was a long bed.
I guess I will be sticking with GM. Now need to drive a few Duramax.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by hankpage

I told myself I was going to stay out of this ,BUT:

"Real Trucks Rattle"

I miss my 12 valve, but the power gains with the 24v common rail was just too tempting.

My '94 IDI is quieter than my sons '98 12V...and it doesn't "chirp" when I shut it off.

[ncgrl1]

Originally Posted by hankpage

I told myself I was going to stay out of this ,BUT:

"Real Trucks Rattle"

I miss my 12 valve, but the power gains with the 24v common rail was just too tempting.

[denverpilot]

All of them do a great job. That said, I'll take the one that's paid off over any other.

We stumbled into a great deal on our 2001 Dodge 3500 DRW 4x4. We (nor the original owner) didn't know the turbo was upgraded incorrectly, and that eventually led to a head gasket blowout. It has the relatively rare NV5600 six speed manual, an older Edge box, and an exhaust brake add-on, amongst other things. It's set up to pull, and pull, and pull.

Long story is posted in another thread, but it towed the big 5er home to Colorado from Wisconsin without the help of the #1 cylinder, and did it well enough I could convince myself that the coolant leak was coming from the water pump.

I doubt something newer with more computers on board would have done as well. I can also smugly ignore the DEF pumps.

We didn't have to take very long to come to the decision, after finding a shop that does nothing but Dodge Diesels, and a great mechanic, to put the money into it to rebuild the top-half of the engine, and the notorious Dodge steering, from the ground up, including changing the way the turbo was set up and a new intake manifold, and studding the engine. Replaced the rear brakes completely also, and basically have a new truck, albeit with older tech and interior.

Next expected failure is the Bosch pump. Eventually. It has an AirDog feeding it which is cheap insurance along with a pressure gauge in the Edge.

We could just barely sell it today for what we have in it, maybe lose a bit of $ if it had to sell quick. But the truck matches our "mission" for it perfectly, and it's still 100% paid off. When I bought it, I had no plans to use it as a daily driver, but it's too much fun to leave parked.

Once in a while I peek at the new offerings from the manufacturers and see MSRP numbers pushing the underside of $70K and it reminds me that I enjoy having money in the savings account more than I need a new truck.

A friend has run multiple Duramax/Chevy trucks and loves them. He actually had an awful and non-normal problem with his Allison in his last one, but his dealer made him an offer he couldn't refuse to take the whole truck off his hands so they could work on it, putting him in new wheels a couple of years ago.

Another friend is a Ford fanatic. He likes his truck, too. He sticks with a personal rule that's interesting though, he'll only buy the trucks that are using the tech that Ford lists as "Fleet Duty". His gasser daily driver truck therefore, isn't a nifty new EcoBoost... He picked the 5.0L, for example. Easier done in the SuperDuty line and diesels, since they're all Fleet Duty, but his rule for that is never to buy new tech in the first couple of years. He avoided the 6.0 and 6.4 problems, and is hairy eyeballing the 6.7 now.

We live two miles off the pavement, and lots of horse and other livestock on property in the neighborhood. Seeing multiple diesel and a few gasser duallies going in and out all day long is commonplace.

I did get a chuckle at the young man who asked about my truck at the little country convenience store one day...

"What year is your Dodge?"

"2001."

"You have the six speed in it?"

"Yep. Love it. Upgraded turbo, exhaust brake, a little more power with an Edge box..."

"Dad has a 2003. I'm going to diesel mechanic school."

"Cool! I know a great shop if you like working on Dodge stuff. I don't know if he is doing much hiring, but you're probably headed for working on bigger stuff anyway, considering it's hard to find good mechanics these days."

"Probably. You know why diesel mechanics buy Dodge trucks, right?"

"Why?"

"We don't like working on those little diesels in other pickup trucks!"

Heh. Kid was pretty funny. The city kids rarely have goals like the kids out here do. I think he said he was a high school sophomore and already rebuilding engines on weekends with buddies. He said if I ever wanted to sell the Dodge to let him know. But he really wanted a 12V Cummins if he could find the right one. He said he'd use the 24V as "trade bait". Heh heh.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by ncgrl1

There has got to be more people than myself who actually like the "rattle trap" sound you refer to. To me, it sounds like a diesel is supposed to sound.
Yes, I would only buy a Ram truck, but I am not totally brand oriented. We also have 2 Volkswagen diesels...06 & 14.

Maybe I'm biased about the "rattle trap" because I grew up on a farm. If I wanted a tractor I'd buy Jon Deere not Dodge. I have a hearing loss as it is, don't need to listen to that all day. I prefer my truck to be a bit quieter.

The new trucks are all pretty close right now. I found a comparison test done on 2011s The decibels inside of each at idle, cruising, and wide open throttle respectively were: GM-67, 83, 85; Ford-72, 85, 86; Dodge-78, 84, 88. I found it interesting that the difference between all three at cruising speeds is a grand total of 2 dB, I thought it'd be more than that.

Comparison--60 dB is equivalent to background noise in a restaurant, 70 dB- vacuum cleaner, 80 dB- garbage disposal, 88 dB- blender

[vampress_me]

My $0.02.

Dodge - we had a 1999 2500 Cummins quad cab w/suicide doors with the 53 Brazil block and manual transmission. Loved the engine, ended up hating the truck around it. Truck had issues from the beginning with eating track bars and needing to be careful in 5th gear so as not to spin off the gear until TSB was out to fix that. Every couple of years would have to replace the track bar due to all the wandering around the road it would do, that got old. Seats and seatbelts were only ok for long trips, not great. But, it towed our trailers awesome with as much power as we wanted in the mountains. At about 100,000 miles the block cracked, Dodge told us to take a hike. I asked the Cummins guys I knew was if they knew of any way to get Dodge to stand up to their warranty for the block, being it was a known problem. They said Dodge was avoiding everyone with this issue, and they (Cummins) gave me a new block and rebuild kit. I was totally amazed, and Dad and I rebuilt the engine. Owned the truck for another few years, at 189,000 miles it was falling apart so bad and the track bars no longer fixed the wandering so we got rid of it. But, for many years that truck could tow to no end and almost keep up with my Mustang when MT speed limit was "reasonable and prudent".

Ford - currently have an F-350 crew cab. Now we have the opposite issue as the Dodge. Great truck wrapper around a diesel engine that is not an great as a Cummins. Part of that may be that it is an automatic, which I dislike. The seats are comfy, the step in the tailgate I like, there is a lot of room in the cab for all 4 of us on long trips. And, with 98,000 miles on it I haven't had to have anything fixed, it keeps running great (knock on wood now!). It also tows good: I can notice the camper back there, but it isn't like an anchor. Tows our other trailers as well as the Dodge did. It does not get as good of gas mileage as the Dodge did - it gets 16-17 highway, the Dodge got 18-19, both not towing.

When we went shopping for the new truck in 2009, we looked at Dodge first because of the Cummins. In my opinion, Dodge had come down in quality of the interior of the truck in the 10 years since we had bought our '99. The interior was all plastic and cheap looking, huge disappointment to me for the price they wanted. Also the interior was no larger than our quad cab, even in the crew cab. The kiddos were getting older and needed more knee room than the quad cab/ suicide doors could give on the old Dodge. So, we ended up with the Ford because of good customer service I have gotten from them in the past and a nicer quality truck "wrapper". But we miss that Cummins...and also the sound of a real diesel, which none have anymore...

I did like how with Dodge you could pick the options you wanted, and only those options, while with Ford to get the options you want you end up with a package that includes things you don't want.

[VegasBT]

I fell into a great deal without realizing it when my Dad sold me his 2000 Ford F-350 SRW with a six speed manual transmission. The truck had 195,000 miles on it, and I've put another 12K on it towing a bumper pull and my new Cougar 28SGS. The 7.3L turbo coupled with a manual transmission makes pulling a breeze, and I'm looking forward to putting a lot more miles on it! After all, I can pay for a lot of maintenance for the cost of a truck payment. It goes in next week to have the seats reupholstered. The truck runs fine, but a lot of miles on the seat shows!

[DirtyOil]

Ford sells as many trucks as Chevy and Dodge combined

I too was gonna stay out of this, have plenty of experience with all 3 makers, but... McDonald's sells a heck of lot of burgers... does that mean they make the best burgers?

[Ken / Claudia]

I certainly wasn't the first to buy a diesel pick up, it was a 1988 ford. Back than diesel was always less than regular grade gas. Than all you guys starting finding out they could pull a loaded trailer like nothing ever before and the price of diesel kept getting higher than gas due to all those wanting the best pickups. Please we got to stop saying how good they are and maybe the demand will lower along with fuel costs. Ha Ha