What's up with generators?

[Pmedic4]

Oddly, I have two generators now, one is a 5K watt monster, that weighs more than me, and that's saying a lot! Also have a 3K, that runs on propane, which is an absolute bear to start, but runs good.

Yet, I still yearn for the 2000 watt Honda, just cause it's easier to handle and expected longevity. The local 'Farm & Home' has them for the usual price of $999.00, and they often run a 10% off sale for Seniors/Veterans. So, I keep thinking about it, but always get back to just really do I need it?

Guess I'm waiting for something really special, or, I'll just go where they have power.

[nellie1289]

does anybody know the DB rating or have a audio clip of this champion running. may have to google it.


On edit, here is a pretty good demonstration video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHw1J_Yt-1E

[zuley]

There has been a fair amount of chatter the past couple of days on a couple of posts. Fantastic information shared by everyone. I ened up going out and purchasing the Champion 2000 watt inverter model last night. Canadian Tire has them advertized for 649. here in Canada. So, I'm reading the manual when I got home. It states not to start the gen up with anything plugged in or when shutting down to unplug the load and let it idle for a minute prior. For anyone using or owning this model how important is that? Generally I would plug the shore power cable from my TT into it when we arrive at our site and fire the gen up periodically as required. Now that brings something else to mind that I do not understand. Champion also has a 3100 watt with a remote start option that I considered purchasing. Too heavy I decided. By stating that there should not be anthing plugged into the unit at start up does that not defeat the purpose of the remote start? Certainly they do not expect you to push the start button from the confines of your trailer and then walk outside to plug in whatever.

[jsmith948]

According to the specs, the Champion 3100 invertor generator is rated at 58db.
Doesn't say if that is at 25% power. The fuel consumption is listed as 8hrs on a 1.6gal tank at 25% power, so, I'm guessing the db rating is at the lower rpm.

Added: Zuley - the online info indicates that the 3100 remote start can be started with the trailer plugged in - seems there is a 19sec (Not sure if memory serves) delay after start-up.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by zuley

There has been a fair amount of chatter the past couple of days on a couple of posts. Fantastic information shared by everyone. I ened up going out and purchasing the Champion 2000 watt inverter model last night. Canadian Tire has them advertized for 649. here in Canada. So, I'm reading the manual when I got home. It states not to start the gen up with anything plugged in or when shutting down to unplug the load and let it idle for a minute prior. For anyone using or owning this model how important is that? Generally I would plug the shore power cable from my TT into it when we arrive at our site and fire the gen up periodically as required. Now that brings something else to mind that I do not understand. Champion also has a 3100 watt with a remote start option that I considered purchasing. Too heavy I decided. By stating that there should not be anthing plugged into the unit at start up does that not defeat the purpose of the remote start? Certainly they do not expect you to push the start button from the confines of your trailer and then walk outside to plug in whatever.

To answer your question, it's important !!! If you think about how a "portable generator" performs its tasks, it is a gasoline powered motor coupled to a "wire wound generator head". As with any gasoline motor, it should be "warmed up" prior to placing a load on it. Since there's no way to uncouple the generator head, the only effective way to "reduce the load" (by unplugging the trailer) until the motor is warmed up and properly lubricated is to not place a load on the generator head so the unit can "turn easily until warm"...

As for shutdown, the "generator head" is nothing more than a series of "varnish coated copper wires" that are wound around a spindle and mounted inside a series of magnets. As the copper wire turns inside the magnets, they produce electric current. Production of that current causes heat. The varnish coated copper wires get hot. Shutting them down when hot will create "hot spots" on the winding and eventually "melt the varnish coating" causing the generator head windings to fail. By removing the load, you allow the copper windings to turn inside the magnets without a load, giving them time to cool down before they stop turning next to a hot magnet. That will "preserve" the varnish coating for a longer time, adding to the longevity of the generator head.

So, if you want your investment to last as long as possible, startup load should be removed to prevent "strain" on the cold engine and shutdown load should be removed to prevent "hot spots" on the generator head windings....

I hope this makes sense to you the way I described it....

[zuley]

Yes Sir, it does. Again thank you.

[jsmith948]

Good point/info regarding start-up and shut down. Based on this info, I suppose the remote start feature WOULD be of no use. The info from Cabela's ad on their website mentions the ability to remotely start this genset because of the delay feature. I suppose one could shut the main breaker off at the trailer control panel - remotely start the gen - allow sufficient warm up - then turn on the breaker (probably shortening the life of the breaker)
For my money, I can walk out and pull the cord and save the extra cost of the remote start and the problems/maint that the battery and starting motor will have/require.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jsmith948

Good point/info regarding start-up and shut down. Based on this info, I suppose the remote start feature WOULD be of no use. The info from Cabela's ad on their website mentions the ability to remotely start this genset because of the delay feature. I suppose one could shut the main breaker off at the trailer control panel - remotely start the gen - allow sufficient warm up - then turn on the breaker (probably shortening the life of the breaker)
For my money, I can walk out and pull the cord and save the extra cost of the remote start and the problems/maint that the battery and starting motor will have/require.

Keep in mind that what I'm about to post is "purely my speculation" and I don't have any "documentation to back it up", so here goes: I think that the 19 second delay is to "remove the generator load during startup" so the starter motor is able to turn the crankshaft on the generator gas motor. Think about trying to start a manual transmission truck without pushing in the clutch and it's a similar operation.

I'd guess (again speculation) that Champion's engineers have decided that the 19 second delay is sufficient time to crank the engine, get it running and "sling some oil" onto the connecting rod bearings/crankshaft"... If that's true, then that may be all the time that's needed.... But, putting the motor "under a load" before it's warmed up, could also cause unnecessary wear....

I've no doubt that Champion's engineers are concerned with reliability of their product, but I'd also surmise that their "primary consideration" for that engineering is to provide for "reliability during the warranty"..... Prolonging the life of any product includes some effort on the part of the operator, usually long after the warranty has expired. That operator maintenance/protective practices likely prolongs the reliability far more than the "engineering considerations for a 19 second delay"...

Just my thoughts on why Champion and Cabela's make the claims they make.....

ADDED: Like you, for my money (and peace of mind) I can walk outside, pull the rope, wait until it's warm and plug in the trailer. All that extra stuff: Battery, starter, wiring, remote control system, etc. is just "stuff to break"... The "KISS" concept has merit, at least with my way of thinking LOL

[SADLY]

If you choose to Plug-in and un-plug the generator.. You should STILL shut your RV's main breaker off... Plug in (or unplug).... And THEN turn main breaker on.

Reason is you don't want to plug your camper into a live circuit.. The immediate draw (converter, microwave clock, anything else that's "on") will cause a small arc each time. This will ultimately char/discolor the copper prongs on your plug or dog-bone.

I do the same when plugging in (or unplugging) from my garage plug or the camp site power pedestal. You don't want to hear a tiny "pop" when you plug it in.

[B-O-B'03]

Originally Posted by SADLY

If you choose to Plug-in and un-plug the generator.. You should STILL shut your RV's main breaker off... Plug in (or unplug).... And THEN turn main breaker on.

Reason is you don't want to plug your camper into a live circuit.. The immediate draw (converter, microwave clock, anything else that's "on") will cause a small arc each time. This will ultimately char/discolor the copper prongs on your plug or dog-bone.

I do the same when plugging in (or unplugging) from my garage plug or the camp site power pedestal. You don't want to hear a tiny "pop" when you plug it in.

+1

I always flip the main breaker off, in the camper, before plugging in or unplugging... shore power or generator.

-Brian

[Desert185]

As far as generator warmup prior to a load, if you have a surge protector there is a two minute delay (mine is 128 seconds) for sampling power before connection. This should be enough time for the generator to sufficiently warm up (during normal camping season temps) before creating a load.

[nellie1289]

Hey folks, so I borrowed my neighbors Honda EU 2000, and here is my Yamaha 4500(my main house backup and long trip generator for boondocking) and the new Champion 2800 Generator I just got. I am going to do some sound tests. the advertised DB levels are

Yamaha- 58db
Champion-58db
Honda- 53db

Gonna use my iPhone to test.

I will play around with them today and see what I learn and report back. I am surprised how small the champion is and its pretty easy to move around and lift. 30Amp pug on such a big generator is a great thing!

[nellie1289]

ok.... I tested them out and hear are the results using the following criteria:

I used a DB app for my iPhone, I positioned myself 2 feet with the muffler side facing me:

Yamaha 4500ise- Full load(smart throttle off) 58 db, smart throttle on with limited to no load 53db.

Champion 2800/3100 (Costco model). Full load (smart throttle off) 59 db, smart throttle on with limited load 53 db.

Honda EU 2000- Full load(smart throttle off) 54 db, smart throttle on with limited to no load. 47db*

*It is worth nothing we put synthetic oil in the Honda(10w 30 mobil 1), Yamalube 10W40 in the Yamaha, and Champion's own 10w30 oil that came with it in the box in the Champion. The Honda is noticeably 2db quieter with the synthetic vs previous dino oil.

I have not used this champion yet for duration. I can tell you I am super impressed with it so far, time will tell. it is a great value and will power your 13,500 btu(probably 15,000 btu based on reviews I have seen online).

Costco delivered the Champion in 3 days to my home from Los Angeles shipping point. it is very easy for me to lift an move myself.

Happy to answer any other questions people might have.

[mfifield01]

Originally Posted by nellie1289

ok.... I tested them out and hear are the results using the following criteria:

I used a DB app for my iPhone, I positioned myself 2 feet with the muffler side facing me:

Yamaha 4500ise- Full load(smart throttle off) 58 db, smart throttle on with limited to no load 53db.

Champion 2800/3100 (Costco model). Full load (smart throttle off) 59 db, smart throttle on with limited load 53 db.

Honda EU 2000- Full load(smart throttle off) 54 db, smart throttle on with limited to no load. 47db*

*It is worth nothing we put synthetic oil in the Honda(10w 30 mobil 1), Yamalube 10W40 in the Yamaha, and Champion's own 10w30 oil that came with it in the box in the Champion. The Honda is noticeably 2db quieter with the synthetic vs previous dino oil.

I have not used this champion yet for duration. I can tell you I am super impressed with it so far, time will tell. it is a great value and will power your 13,500 btu(probably 15,000 btu based on reviews I have seen online).

Costco delivered the Champion in 3 days to my home from Los Angeles shipping point. it is very easy for me to lift an move myself.

Happy to answer any other questions people might have.

Do you think the Champion would benefit from Synthetic oil (lower DB)?

I have the Champion 2000 and it's relatively quiet. Ran a 100' extension cord with it in some trees last weekend and could barely tell when it was running.

[hankaye]

nellie1289, Howdy;

Thanks for taking the time to do what you already have. However, how about
a comparison at a reasonable Boondock campsite distance of say 15 - 30 feet?
Should be more of what folks run into, even with regular ambient background levels...

hankaye

[nellie1289]

Originally Posted by hankaye

nellie1289, Howdy;

Thanks for taking the time to do what you already have. However, how about
a comparison at a reasonable Boondock campsite distance of say 15 - 30 feet?
Should be more of what folks run into, even with regular ambient background levels...

hankaye

Hi Hankaye

I did what you asked. from about 25 feet with the muffler pointing towards me all three gave similar results:

smart throttle on(no load)
Honda: 16 db
Yamaha: 18 db(keep in mind this is an 11 horsepower engine producing tons of power)
Champion: 18db

Full throttle(with load):
Honda: 20 db
Yamaha: 22db(see above about being a much more powerful gen)
Champion 23 db

All are very queit machines. This was in my culdesac so there is surely some house reverberation but these are all whisper quiet. you cant go wrong with any of them. I feel all three are premium machines, and the champion blows them out of the water on cost. Now then, reliability on that one still TBD. only 2 hours on it now!

Let me know if anyone else has questions.

[nellie1289]

Originally Posted by mfifield01

Do you think the Champion would benefit from Synthetic oil (lower DB)?

I have the Champion 2000 and it's relatively quiet. Ran a 100' extension cord with it in some trees last weekend and could barely tell when it was running.

Not sure, but I will be switching to synthetic at 5 hours when the first oil change is required. Will probably always run yamalube in the 4500ise.

[SADLY]

Like button

[nellie1289]

ha thanks, this is a pretty solid post if I do say so myself

[Weber]

Love all the data. Great job nellie1289. Now to pull the trigger on the champion. We don't boondock much but we may a bit more if there is a quiet option for power.


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