If I would Have Known.

[dfb]

Last March we purchased a brand new Montana 3611rl with the Legacy package. If I would have known the Parent company was THOR I wold Have ran away! We have owned 6 previous 5th Wheel. We have had Skyline and Fleetwood Product and the last was a K-Z. NOT ONE time did we have issues like on this MONTANA.. Right from the Get Go the Toilet would not hold Water, the Water Heater did not work on electric, the black waste handle did not work and the fridge doors were dented. Front Cap was all chipped up. So, out of nearly 1 year of ownership we have had it for 3 months. The rest of the time it has been in the body shop, and now for the 2nd time back to the Dealer. This is for the Awning pulling out of the rail. The LED interior light burnt out. The BLACK WATER handle again!. The TOILET AGAIN not holding water. The siding support undone at the rear so the side metal bounces as you drive down the road.The carpet look old after 3 MONTHS! I pay for any damage I cause. However , KEYSTONE wants me to pay for their SCREWUP on the black water valve. The cable was originally routed wrong so the blade would not fully close. The first time it was brought in the dealer fixed the cable but did not check the blade valve for toilet paper. Now they want US to pay for this when if Keystone did their job RIGHT the first time, this would not be an issue.. STAY AWAY FROM ANY THOR PRODUCT!

[dcg9381]

My thoughts:
1) Toilet not holding water - isn't that a simple seal?
2) Front cap chipped and dents in the fridge - did you miss those at pick-up time? Sounds like this is likely delivery damage. Did you buy one sight unseen or buy one off the lot?
3) Sliding support - not sure what that is - my guess is that it's the side skirt support, which is a common problem (and easy fix) - exacerbated by lack of balanced wheels/tires from the factory.
4) Awning pulling out -not good.. Sounds like a legit problem.
5) LED light burnt out? Just one? Is it a big issue?
6) Dealer fixed cable routing, but apparently it couldn't close completely due to paper in the valve area... Again, not ideal, but hardly a huge problem.


Sorry you're having issues - but trust me, in the grand scheme of RV issues, most of these sound small or are the product of delivery issues...

Dealers not fixing things right the first time is definitely an issue.. I've run into that myself...

[dfb]

Originally Posted by dcg9381

My thoughts:
1) Toilet not holding water - isn't that a simple seal?
2) Front cap chipped and dents in the fridge - did you miss those at pick-up time? Sounds like this is likely delivery damage. Did you buy one sight unseen or buy one off the lot?
3) Sliding support - not sure what that is - my guess is that it's the side skirt support, which is a common problem (and easy fix) - exacerbated by lack of balanced wheels/tires from the factory.
4) Awning pulling out -not good.. Sounds like a legit problem.
5) LED light burnt out? Just one? Is it a big issue?
6) Dealer fixed cable routing, but apparently it couldn't close completely due to paper in the valve area... Again, not ideal, but hardly a huge problem.


Sorry you're having issues - but trust me, in the grand scheme of RV issues, most of these sound small or are the product of delivery issues...

Dealers not fixing things right the first time is definitely an issue.. I've run into that myself...

On things I break I FIX!. Like the fan globe. Or the unit got scuffed.. I buffed it out. the thing is is that THOR has ZERO quality Control. Why would an RV leave the factory with a toilet that won't hold water.. Dealer tried to fix it the first time by GREASING THE RUBBER SEAL.. It did not work. The water heater electric cable was not hooked up at the factory. The Black water valve was not correctly routed. I have owned 6 PREVIOUS 5th wheels and NEVER NEVER issues like this.. EVER.. Yes I am toasted. I can understand lights burning out. But stuff that should be tested before sold to the Dealers? I give NO slack there.. Back up camera had to be replaced because it was Always HOT. The company that built the camera said it needs to be an observation camera not backup since it is alway on.. I had ONE issue with another RV. It was the Convertor. I called the company and I fixed it for 2.40 cents.. The Dealer wanted 400.00 for a new converter... I am NOT impressed right now with the lack of quality in the Montana.. They must have looked hard and long for the CHEAPEST POS carpet on the Planet.. MY K_Z new vision ultra's carpet still looked like new after 12 years... This carpet looks worn at 3 months.. That is a BIG QUALITY ISSUE.. it tells me they don't give a damn about the people who put food on their table...I am thinking Of buying another 5th wheel from another company...as long as they aren't THOR...

[dfb]

about the toilet, do a search. Most folks throw the Thetfords out for the Dometic...Black water blade no big deal? no its not until you find POP RIVETS holding the under belly on...

and what is the CABLE SLIDES??? This is stupid... USE RACK AND PINION!! Cables stretch....
I would have fixed the LED rope lights myself.. But KEYSTONE would not tell me the name of the company who makes the rope lights!! Never heard of this.. I know the manufacturer of every other part on the coach... But they won't let you know??

[Javi]

good luck...

as a note.... everything except the carpet is a dealer PDI issue... Thor, and nearly everyone else pay their dealers to inspect and repair these items before the sale to the end user... Blame the dealer... probably for the pop rivets too..

[dfb]

Originally Posted by Javi

good luck...

as a note.... everything except the carpet is a dealer PDI issue... Thor, and nearly everyone else pay their dealers to inspect and repair these items before the sale to the end user... Blame the dealer... probably for the pop rivets too..

Thank You for the advice.. It will be a year next month and the rv has spent 9 months in the repair facilities.. a lot of things I can do myself.. Like the led rope light but Keystone refused to give the manufacturers name so I could do it myself. The Blade valve I have done before. 4 screws.. I guess I'm just very frustrated by the amount of time this has been in the shop....Plus I am recovering from open back surgery and still numb.. So that kinda wears on me too....

[dcg9381]

I'll agree with you there. Keystone isn't much for end-user support.. And as much as I know I'm about to hear "GM doesn't support buyer directly" - that's not necessarily true of all other RV manufacturers.

Generally these things are built the same. Keystone (Thor) cranks out more volume and may or may not have more quality issues. Other manufacturers are advertising post-manufacturer PDI (pre-dealer) and some dealers do some advanced PDI's - I've seen at least one advertisement for leak testing per-delivery. The lights on your Keystone likely to be shared with higher end models. Same thing with fridge, I suspect front caps, etc..


Like yours - mine spent some time in the shop. I don't know if any manufacturer you can avoid it (on most purchases) - at least that's the conclusion I've come to. You can buy used - and get a RV that's already been shaken down.. And you can buy RVs with better warranties and factory direct support, but they do cost more...

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by dfb

Last March we purchased a brand new Montana 3611rl with the Legacy package. If I would have known the Parent company was THOR I wold Have ran away! We have owned 6 previous 5th Wheel. We have had Skyline and Fleetwood Product and the last was a K-Z. NOT ONE time did we have issues like on this MONTANA.. STAY AWAY FROM ANY THOR PRODUCT!

dfb -
Your recommendation and probable future decision to "stay away from any Thor product" certainly reduces the makes and models that you would look at and perhaps buy.

You can scratch off any of these from your shopping list:
Airstream
Bison
Crossroads - including Sequoia, Cameo, Carriage, Zinger, Z-1, Redwood --
Cruiser - including Interra, Fun Finder, Radiance, Stryker
DRV - including Mobile Suites, Elite Suites -----
Dutchmen - Aerolite, Coleman, Denali, Voltage
Heartland - Big Horn, Big Country, Wilderness, Prowler
K-Z - Durango, Vision, ------
Thor - Motor Coach

You also stated your last RV was a K-Z that "did not have issues like we've had on our Montana" and yet K-Z is owned by Thor.

I'm sorry to read about the troubles you've had with the Montana (made by Keystone which is owned by Thor). As I indicated above, Thor owns numerous RV manufacturing companies but to paint all of Thor products with the same "Do not buy!" brush doesn't make any sense. It's akin to saying "Never buy a Ford product" because of a problem one person had with a Ford Focus.

[dfb]

K-Z was bought by Thor in 2014.. Ours was a 2003.. They were great. We also had a Tahoe by thor.. Not too bad, not too good.. It was filon and that sucker warped all over the place.. Don't care about cross roads, but Mobile Suites? That sux..no Dutchman either, Airstream was top drawer,,, I don't know now that the Cheap skated took over Airstream.. Lots of complaints on the Thor Motor coaches.Shoot,,, and I liked the Redwoods!

[SADLY]

I bought my Keyston in 2012 and haven't been back to the dealer yet....

Well except when I crunched a cabinet door with the slide out - but I'll chalk that up to my fault.

[dfb]

Originally Posted by SADLY

I bought my Keyston in 2012 and haven't been back to the dealer yet....

Well except when I crunched a cabinet door with the slide out - but I'll chalk that up to my fault.

Did the cabinet door too.. MY Fault.. door was open when closing slide... I just read the rules and I think I violated them by downing a product.. can I take it back..

[GaryWT]

Yes somethings should be fixed before it leaves the factory but it does not sound like the dealer is good. You should be able to get things fixed quicker. Send the list, have them get the parts and then bring it in. The 2 times I have brought the trailer in, the first time I dropped it off and told them my next trip was in 2 weeks and it was ready. The second time I waited for it to be fixed the same day. Good luck.

[jsmith948]

I do not understand 9 of 12 months at the dealer for repair?
Sounds like your anger/animosity should be directed toward the dealer - not the manufacturer?
My sister had a Monico class A. It was in the shop something over 4 months for a windshield wiper motor and then when she went to pick it up the automatic steps were broken and she had to pay for that!
I think some of these dealers don't concern themselves with repeat business - gouge 'em good one time and never look back!

[dcg9381]

It's pretty easy to eat 30 days per dealer drop off. Dealer won't submit a claim until they've got the unit, then Keystone has to approve it, find the parts, ship the parts, and the dealer has to receive the parts... After that some waiting period until the RV can actually be worked on. For bigger stuff, 60 days seems to be common - at least where I am. Better in the winter (slow season). Much worse in the summer.

[CaptnJohn]

My last was a TT by Heartland and had zero problems. Bought the Cougar in December and headed to FL in January. Had a problem with the furnace Atwood took care of at the CG. Had the dealer measure and order slide toppers to be installed when I get home. Wanted to be in it for over a month so warranty work can be included at the same time. Big job ~~ when the porch light is turned on the step light comes on but not the light over the door. If OP thinks the problems are huge they best stay away from Forest River products. Several have black water tank problems as they believe the tank is used like a trash bin during the build process. Complaints of sawdust and insulation found many months after purchase when traveling and even from ducts. I was close to buying a Rockwood and glad I opted for the Cougar. FR does have a very active owners group but nothing like Heartland. The number of Heartland rallies is unbelievable with factory and vendor reps and techs arriving at the larger ones. Really miss that about Heartland and wish they built a 5er to meet our needs when shopping last.

[chuckster57]

If you can find ANY brand of RV with perfect products straight out of the factory please let us know. I have dealt with $9,000.00 entry level up to $700,000.00 units. Haven't found one without issues from the factory.

Like others, I would be directing your concerns towards the dealer, not the builder. As far as the warranty process, yes it can be slow but that's all brands. Factory won't ship parts without proof of failure, and most often pictures including model and serial number. I understand your frustration, but again I think your upset at the wrong entity.

[BOWWOW]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

If you can find ANY brand of RV with perfect products straight out of the factory please let us know. I have dealt with $9,000.00 entry level up to $700,000.00 units. Haven't found one without issues from the factory.

Like others, I would be directing your concerns towards the dealer, not the builder. As far as the warranty process, yes it can be slow but that's all brands. Factory won't ship parts without proof of failure, and most often pictures including model and serial number. I understand your frustration, but again I think your upset at the wrong entity.

So are you implying that it is the dealers fault that the manufacturer's are building a POS ? IMO they are usually both trying to take the easiest way out! "Usually"

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by BOWWOW

So are you implying that it is the dealers fault that the manufacturer's are building a POS ? IMO they are usually both trying to take the easiest way out! "Usually"

I don't think Chuckster57 is "implying that anyone is at fault", nor do I see anywhere that he refers to anything produced by the "manufacturer" is a "POS"... He didn't use that term at all, so, no he didn't imply anything of the sort... Rather he is acknowledging that anyone can make a mistake. Manufacturers are not immune from that "human frailty" any more than the rest of us. It's "good business practice" for the dealer" to check the RV fully and identify any problem areas, contact the manufacturer and determine an acceptable repair solution. Sometimes, a dealer will "take the easy way out" and wait until the new owner "finds the mistakes" and then blame Keystone rather than acknowledge that they failed to even check the basic utilities before delivery... That's not a "responsible way to do business", at least not from my vantage point.

What is unfortunate about the OP's situation is the 9 months that he's been "jerked around" by the dealer. Yes, I say "dealer" because a "responsible dealership would have "taken the bull by the horns" and provided solutions for their customer rather than "slow leak" the problems while blaming "big bad Keystone".... Especially when you look at just how "inexpensive and fast" repairs would have been to the identified problems the OP illustrated. At most, all combined, they are less than a half day's work for a competent RV tech. So, to have "waited 9 months without resolution" doesn't reflect on Keystone nearly as much as it does on the dealership.....

I am in agreement with Chuckster, I've seen problems with $9000 entry level "junk" and I've seen problems with "million dollar diesel pushers". In fact, if you've ever watched the RV shows on TV, you've probably seen the "quick fixes" they do to those 3/4 million dollar "busses" so the new owner doesn't find the broken cabinet door or the scratched shower wall or the chipped granite counter... Unfortunately, that silicone, or furniture crayon "falls away" after a few months and the new owner is left with a chipped counter, often wondering, "How'd that happen???" It often seems the objective is: Get the money and run!!!

Bottom line, if it's made by humans, chances are that before it's all finished, there will be an error "somewhere"........... Too bad we all can't be perfect

Remember though, we've only read one side of a "two sided situation"... I'm sure that if the dealership and Keystone were as vocal as the OP, we'd hear another version, one that probably doesn't fall "perfectly into place".....

[chuckster57]

Exactly. Weather it's an entry level or luxury level coach, they are built by humans not robots.

I never did imply that any manufacturer purposely builds a POS. Being a tech and seeing numerous different brands, I do have my PERSONAL opinions on who builds a better unit, but that's not the subject of this thread.

[SADLY]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

...I never did imply that any manufacturer purposely builds a POS.....

They ALL do it accidentally.... On a consistent basis... LOL