Keystone TT 260-RBS Insulation Project/ Under Trailer/ Pic heavy

[FullTimer]

I thought I would share my current project. Insulating under the trailer to keep holding tanks from freezing. Maybe the title should be "How to Turn a 3 seasons Trailer into a 4 Seasons One".

Ok Ready?, I decided to do the whole trailer length since the FW tank was separate from the two other tanks. It's a work in progress, so I will be adding cross supports from the front to the rear to support the foil board to make it road worthy.

I used duct tape at first on the seams, then removed it after it pretty much let go. Tried foil tape, same thing (disappointing). So I will probably be getting some underlayment tape or some Gorilla Tape. I will also be reworking the part directly underneath the rear tanks, I don't like the way the drain comes out, under frame, pushing down on the insulation, and will probably be using a black pipe wrap instead of the bulky insulation. I have since slid a heat tape underneath the black tank and wrapped around the drain pipes all the way to the connection flange for sub 0 weather. I have two 12 volt heating pads, peel and stick for the underside of the FW tank, and will be wiring them in, with a fuse and switch somewhere. Pads pull 1 amp @ approx 35 watts each, good for cold weather boondocking.

When I went to removed the black plastic shield from the FW tank, I found pieces of bent aluminium angle, looked like metal siding, originally bent to make angle braces, bent over flat, allowing the tank to slide from side to side inside the frame rail cross members, as well as bounce up and down about 2 inches, The screws also came down from the top, through the flat straps supporting the tank, nice lol.

I also found the fill hose torn, from the stretching caused by the tank sliding and bouncing around empty. Good thing it didn't break the tank neck. I'll be working on hooking up new fill hose and installing the 12 volt pads and insulating the FW tank today.

In some of the pics, at the rear of the trailer, I found a recessed space between the rear bottom edge of the trailer body and frame cross member, from side to side, where the bathroom water lines were ran, covered up with just a piece of fabric tape, pex tubing laying on the tape. Bathroom sink and tub ines were trying to freeze during a bad winter storm a month ago. So for the moment I cut a strip of insulation and shoved up in it, to help protect the water lines from cold. Looks ghetto, but I will probably be splitting the fabric tape, insulating right and resealing with a strip of Insulboard.

My goal is to not have to drip or run water at the faucets at all, be able to close the gate valves and hold liquid in tanks during extreme weather events. Also to cut down on how much I have to spend heating the trailer. Also to maintain ability to pull trailer without having to worry about it all coming down and dry boondock lol.

It's a work in progress, but I thought some might want to see where alot of my time is going lately lol, as well as other Honey Do projects. The wife says she can already tell a difference on the floor temps and how much heat we're having to use, compared to before. Sorry about all the narration lol.


6- 4X8 Sheets of 1 Inch InsulBoard (Stryofoam), cut to 68 inches (long) and dropped on inner frame rail flanges sideways. Light weight. Plywood would be heavier and make getting to under carriage harder.
3 1/2 X 24 inch Insulation. Cut to 4 foot lengths. laid longways and laid on top of the foil Insulboard. Covers from frame rail to frame rail.

Front of trailer, access cut for slide pump. Far left upper corner.



45 Gallon Freshwater tank nestled in the rails, with shield removed.


Screws going the wrong direction through straps

[FullTimer]

Rear of trailer with strip of insulation on left to protect water tubing, temporarily. Black and Grey tanks directly above. I'll be reworking where the drains drop below the frame, to get rid of the hump.

[shov]

looks great. i performed a similar project on my old TT out of necessity, lived in mine for a year in Montana


Sent from my iPad

[JRTJH]

Looks like you've been busy. Hopefully what you're doing will make a significant difference in cold weather livability. Two things I think you might want to consider:

1. Be sure to weigh your rig when you're done. Adding insulation might not look like it adds a lot of weight, but it can "creep up there" pretty quickly.

2. The screws in the straps that you say are "installed wrong" might not be installed wrong. As the tanks shift (or even expand/stretch when full) they will slide against those screws if they are installed with the heads on the bottom. That may cause them to cut into the tank and destroy it. We found a lot of those kinds of installation techniques in airplanes. It might not "look right" but it is done for a specific purpose that may not be readily apparent on first observation. Use caution if you decide to reverse the direction of those screws!!!!

Keep us posted as things progress.

[Mike L123]

Thank you for posting this "how to" along with pictures. This is indeed a massive undertaking and I wish you success with it. I have often wondered what is hidden by the coroplast and what kind of workmanship the factory puts into these things. Please remember that you should not wrap heat tape around the pipes - it has to travel in a straight line down one side, or both sides if you need to, of the pipes that you are heating. Wrapping around the pipes could result in unwanted/unexpected problems.

Cheers!

Mike

[FullTimer]

Thanks all, just finished putting the FW tank heating pads on, the new fill hose, slipping a section of 1 inch Styrofoam under the whole tank, and reinstalling the plastic shield under the whole mess lol, and of course the straps. Now I need to finish wiring the two pairs of heating pad wires into the battery leads or a 12 volt tap. I was wondering about a good tape for the seams of the foil board? Any suggestions? Would something like below work? I thought about the screws being that way for the tank puncturing reason. But I think I will use 1/4X1 inch bolts and nuts, with the threads facing down. Now that I have the Styrofoam in, raises the tank an inch, that gives me some buffer between the tank and bolt heads to avoid that. I know it's aways from being finished, but I was being assaulted by projects after the move in and hustling to beat the weather lol. Now I almost have things under control, hope lol. Thanks for the heat strip tip. These pads aren't thermostatic, but are very low wattage, so I will need a switch setup for sure. Then just use them for extreme weather.

Eternabond RV Rubber Roof Repair Tape

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eternabond-R...430e35&vxp=mtr

These are the two heating pads I used, sorry about screen shear.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331075322012...84.m1439.l2649
THESE CAN BE INSTALLED ON ANY PLASTIC PIPE THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO FREEZE. FOR RV, MARINE HOME OR TRUCK

MODEL SL-P712. MADE BY THERMAHEAT
13.5V DC 12 VOLT. 1.7 AMPS. FOR PIPES UP TO 3"
MEASURE 7.5" WIDE BY 12" LONG. 23 WATTS. 18" LEAD WIRE
THE PIPE HEATERS DO NOT OPERATE ON A THERMOSTAT.
JUST PEEL OF AND STICK TO TANK AND HOOK UP WIRING.
INSTRUCTIONS INCLUDED
YOU CAN ALSO HOOK MORE THAN ONE OF THESE UP.

[JRTJH]

The foam board you're using looks like it has an aluminum foil facing on it. Using any tape on that will fail when the foil surface separates from the foam. Every piece of aluminum construction board I've seen or used has separated if exposed to the elements. It takes time to happen, usually a year or two, but it has separated on every one I've used that was exposed. So taping the foil will eventually fail no matter what kind of tape you use.

You can tape it now with gorilla tape and then, in the spring when the weather is nicer, install a sheet of coroplast over the entire underside to protect the foam as well as all the joints. Coroplast comes in rolls and is 72" wide (perfect to fit between the frame rails). It's sold by the foot and the cost isn't that expensive, it's shipping that's the killer !!! If you can find a dealership that has some on hand or if you're near one of the bigger supply houses, you can pick it up to save the shipping.

I wouldn't count on any tape applied to aluminum foil to be a long term fix.

[BulletOwner1]

FullTimer,

I did a much less intense insulating project on my Bullet. What I wanted to relate to you was be careful screwing the coroplast back up. On my Bullet one end of the fresh water tank rests on the inboard edge of the I Beam frame rail. The manuf screwed the coroplast to the frame at that location with cut off screws. When I went back to install the coroplast I forgot that small fact and used a long screw. Needless to say I wasn't a happy camper at that point. I was able to repair the tank but it wouldn't have been necessary if I had paid attention!!!!

[FullTimer]

Thanks again guys. That's what I was wondering, if I was spinning my wheels on the longterm tape aspect. The zip ties are a temp thing, until I install cross supports of some type. Weather was barrelling down towards us, when I did the front. I had actually thought coroplast would be nice touch, to tie it all in neatly. I haven't drilled any under carriage holes yet, other than hanging a wall mount led TV in the bedroom , being very careful about that. I'll check around and see what pops up on it.

But I have done the exact same thing when I was doing HVAC repair decades ago. Coleman package unit, pierced one of the coils, grabbed the wrong screw, just nicked it. I was able to repair it, but I was very unhappy on a 100 degree day lol. What did you end up using to repair the hole?

[BulletOwner1]

I was able to get a small stick of material used in plastic welding from an RV dealer. Then I used a soldering iron with a flat tip. So far so good.

[sbmarks3]

Thanks for posting your progress on this project. I am in the middle of doing one myself. I have already run heat tape on the water lines, now I have to deal with the tanks, run some extra wiring for future circuits and install foam board like you are doing. I am considering putting the foam board foil side up to allow shedding of any water that may end up on it. I have coroplast going back on as a final covering. Please keep us posted on your progress, it looks great.

[FullTimer]

Thanks, I figured if nothing else, people could learn from my mistakes lol. I'll grab a few pics of the covered tank in the morning.

Without starting a new thread, any tips for getting a stuck dripping T&P valve out? I used a 14 inch pair of channel locks on it and it didn't budge. I'll try some PB Blaster in the next few days and see if that helps. I just thought someone might know that special trick lol.

[sbmarks3]

You might try this on the t&p valve. screw a 90 degree street elbow or a short nipple and a standard elbow into the valve snuggly. Then screw a piece of pipe 2 or 3 foot long into the elbow snug. It can work as a lever to break the valve free. Leaving it all just snug but able to move lets you avoid interferences. Good luck

[FullTimer]

Thanks, but my issue is room, it's a Suburban 6 gallon tank. The valve sits too deep to screw anything on. I dug around last night and found a socket for this. I think I'll go ahead and get one and try it. My only other option is call out a repair guy, on site. $$$$
Camco 10552 Universal Temperature Pressure Valve Remover Camper Trailer RV
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321285615218...84.m1438.l2649

[mguay]

Welcome to the Underbelly Club!

Another thought on the seams in the foam. A can of Great Stuff Window and Door (blue can minimal expansion) foam and run a bead on one side of the seam. Then mate the two pieces together and within 2 minutes they will be sealed together.

[FullTimer]

Originally Posted by mguay

Welcome to the Underbelly Club!

Another thought on the seams in the foam. A can of Great Stuff Window and Door (blue can minimal expansion) foam and run a bead on one side of the seam. Then mate the two pieces together and within 2 minutes they will be sealed together.

Hmm hadn't even thought of that. Thanks for the membership lol.

Here's a couple of quick shots I grabbed just now, it's about 15 or 20 degrees out there now . Yesterday it was around 70 lol.
You can see the area to the sides of the tank I need to cover yet. The tank now has a 1 inch piece of stryofoam foil board in between the plastic shield and the tank itself, full length. The two pairs of wires go to the dual 12 volt pads, placed about 2 feet apart in the center of the tank. I have the bolts for the straps, but that can wait until a warmer day lol.

You can see where I propped up a piece of foil board farther back, to make sure I had full coverage on the insulation. I filled the tank, checked for leaks, all good! and bleached it, oh and checked the pump, works great. Not much to see really. I'll try to grab one more piece of stryoofoam, and some wire to finish this up this next week.

[Steve S]

Great thread, thanks for the details and the pics

[FullTimer]

YVW Steve. Been a project for sure lol. I was able to work on it some more this afternoon.

I rerouted the pad wires inside the shield and ran them through the floor with the fill hose and pump feed lines. So the tank has pads, 3 1/2 inch insulation on each end, and foil Styrofoam to help insulate it. I forgot to take a picture of the covering all the way to the tank, front (rightside) finished now. I still need to install the anchor bolts.


Here's the three wires running up under the cabinet. A common ground for both pads, and each pad has it's own power feed. Then I will be able to run one or both. I'll be isolating the pump feet, sounds like a drum pounding when running lol.


The location I chose is behind the stove, where the tank level indicator and HW propane switch are at. I wanted to keep them all grouped together. The mark is a rough location. Once I feed the wires up, as well as a 12 volt feed wire, I will dremel the hole out for the two Illuminated switches. I'm having to be pretty careful here, there is a 120 volt outlet to the left and one mounted outside inline with the wire runs. When I fish them up, I will kill the power to the trailer for safety. I will also route a wire to the power center and use one of the empty 12volt fused points.

What the point of entries under the stove looked like when I chose this location. No, I didn't drill that empty hole lol. The wires will come from the left, then travel up the wall to the switch location.

[FullTimer]

Continued
Here's the pair of switches for the heaters.

Me checking for wiring behind the wall at the location above the stove top. Pen marks rough location, next to HW propane switch.


So guys, it's coming along, abeit it slowly . Until I get some choroplast, I grabbed some 1/2 inch metal conduit, cut it to length, and laid under the foil board every few feet and on top of the frame flanges. It supports the weight fine.

[FullTimer]

Well we got snow/ sleet last night, true test of all the work, current temp at 18F and windchill of 4F. We are snug and warm in our improved trailer. I turned the propane heater to 72 and it has yet to kick on. We're using two small little electrics for heat. No fears of tanks (FW still empty pending switches) or water lines freezing Yiipee! And NOT dripping water lol.