We have a leak

[Englishman]

We have a leak on our new 2012 bullet 281bhs. while doing my weekly check on the camper and reaching in the overhead cabinet above the bed to get the keystone instruction book and was surprised to find a small puddle of water and Ice.
This lead to further investigate and I found another Puddle in the side locker which lead me to move the mattress which was wet. So we have spent the day move stuff out of the trailer and getting it ready for one more trip back to the dealership
as soon as I can get it booked it. I have look at the roof seam at the sealer appears to have three small cracks each about an 1" long would these be enough to cause the front of the trailer to leak?

[Outbackmel]

Yes it could. Water finds the weakest link and it is often VERY difficult to pinpoint the source. Point out all areas where you even "suspect" a possible entry point and have it resealed by the dealership. Being a 2012, do nothing which could remotely void your mfg warranty.

Ensure internally you do not have hidden damage as well. Small pockets of puddles can cause mold to develop. Get in there and inspect; inspect and make notes OR you may be going back to the dealer again. Do not expect someone at the dealership to do this on their initiative.

IF your mattress was wet, you may need it replaced.

Best of luck for a complete repair.

[Englishman]

The trailer has been booked into the dealship the bad news is that they are booked until December 9th. But they have given me permission to reseal the seam. Hopefully thet will keep the water out until it repaired by them.

[JRTJH]

That's bad news and good news. Bad that it will take 2 months to get service, good that you can protect your investment.

Remember: The more GOO you DO, the harder it will be for the dealer to clean it up (assuming he cleans it) or most likely, you'll wind up cleaning it up after he finishes his "repair"

maybe, for the two months, a temp repair that is easily removed may be the best option.

[wingmoto]

I am in a similar situation. I have a 2012 Keystone Premier 21BHPR and have had nothing but problems. While some of my problems have been shakedown problems, the quantity of issues and severity of some leaves me to question the overall quality of the unit and has shown significant issues in quality control of Keystone. This is my FIRST Keystone trailer and my 3rd new trailer in 13+ years and I have never had so many problems.
I discovered my leak about 2 weeks prior to closing my unit for the year. I had gone into the trailer on a Friday for a weekend of camping and was blown away by the smell. Upon further investigation, eyes were burning and I could hardly breathe. I noticed something on the outside of my dinette. Lifted the cushions and found mold and mildew all under the dinette, everything stored in there is ruined and the whole trailer smells awful.
To Keystone's credit, they have fixed every problem I have had so far. Mold however is a showstopper for me and I cannot be more displeased with this purchase and trailer. I dropped the trailer back off again to the dealer the weekend after Columbus Day and I am still waiting for a response from the dealer and I don't know what Keystone is planning on doing.
I did talk to the dealer last week and he said that I can only work through them and not directly through the manufacturer. I suspect this may quickly escalate into a legal issue and I am not sure what I should do from here. While I am glad to see I am not the only one to have these types of issues, it is certainly disheartening.
I would appreciate opionions on how I should deal with this. I have hardly used my trailer this year due to all the problems I have had... For a 2012, I'm finding the number of issues and severity unacceptable.

[smiller]

I have to say that while I'm satisfied overall with the value of my Keystone unit I am not impressed by the number of leaks I've had to fix, and two of them were both bad and inexcusable (incorporating poor design and/or poor assembly.) Luckily all were caught before any serious damage was done (at least as far as I can tell )

One thing is for sure, an owner must watch for leaks like a hawk no matter what the quality of the unit may be, they will always be there and that's just an unfortunate RV fact of life. Their existence may be frustrating but the costs of missing one for too long can be severe so you have to make a regular habit of being a detective and looking for any warning signs, new unit or old. But I agree that it all can be particularly disheartening on a new purchase and I hope that Keystone makes it right.

[Englishman]

The seam has been temporarily repaired and the trailer raised 3" at the front so the water runs away from the seam. I have one additional question on this topic. Should to top part of the front on the trailer have movement?

[JRTJH]

What do you mean by the "top part of the front" ? If you're talking about the fiberglass forward of the attaching point, yes, it will probably have some movement. It's a shell and there's not a lot of support under the fiberglass. However, it shouldn't be "wobbly" and feel like it's going to cave in. If you mean at the point where the EPDM meets the fiberglass cap, then NO there should be no movement in that area. The screws that go through the molding/fiberglass/EPDM/RV superstructure should be solid. There should be either a wooden or aluminum rafter under the molding to support the union and to give the screws something to "bite" into for security and structural rigidity. If you mean the roof structure under the EPDM, it's probably 3/8 OSB and it will flex between the rafters. They say it's a "walk on roof" but I've got 2 pieces of 1/2" OSB with carpet stapled to the bottom (about 2X2 ft square) that I use to walk on the roof. They help support and distribute my weight over a larger area. The last think I want to feel/hear is the crunch of a thin sheet of OSB under a rubber membrane as I step lightly...... YIKES !!!

[Englishman]

If you look a piture 3 it the peice coming down the front trailer. It feel firm but as some give just like the back outside wall of the trailer.

[JRTJH]

I think that is just the "nature of the beast" with a front sheet of fiberglass. They build the front structure, add luan inside, stick the wiring and insulation in and wrap the front with a sheet of fiberglass. Staple it in place, then further down the line, they put molding on the edges and slap a EPDM roof on it and run it through the "sealing/caulking gun" phase.

I've not been able to get my hands on any of the plans for structural members, but I'd be willing to guess there are aluminum studs on 16 or 24" centers with a couple of cross members where the angles/curves are located. So, with that type of construction, no, there won't be a lot of structural rigidity a foot or so in front of where you addressed between the studs, but you should feel a firm underlayment if you press over where a stud is located. There will probably be up to 1/4" of "play" as you push down on the fiberglass where a stud is located and a "spongy" feel between the studs. You shouldn't feel any "really soft spots" and the "spongy" areas should be consistent across the entire surface as you move from one area between the studs to the next, probably 16" away.

Check with the dealer when you take it in, maybe they have had the skin off the front of your type of trailer and can explain in better detail what is under there.

Your trailer front and rear "caps" are floating sheets of fiberglass, they're not vaccuum bonded/laminated, so they float freely on top of the wall members. You'll see some flexing between the studs, but it shouldn't be any more than you feel on the rear wall.

I've seen some brands of fifth wheels with molded fiberglass front caps going down the road with the front cap being pushed in (almost popped in) by air pressure. Once they stop, the cap "pops back out" and probably the owner is non the wiser. I don't think that enhances aerodynamics, and eventually it will probaby cause some "material fatigue" from the flexing and maybe start cracking or glazing along the areas of flex. The way your front is designed, I doubt you would face flexing to that extreme. Some flex is good, if it were too rigid, vibration and movement would elongate the holes where the screws go through and eventually cause looseness and leaks.

[Englishman]

Thank you for all of the feedback.

[karenkevinone]

Originally Posted by Englishman

We have a leak on our new 2012 bullet 281bhs. while doing my weekly check on the camper and reaching in the overhead cabinet above the bed to get the keystone instruction book and was surprised to find a small puddle of water and Ice.
This lead to further investigate and I found another Puddle in the side locker which lead me to move the mattress which was wet. So we have spent the day move stuff out of the trailer and getting it ready for one more trip back to the dealership
as soon as I can get it booked it. I have look at the roof seam at the sealer appears to have three small cracks each about an 1" long would these be enough to cause the front of the trailer to leak?

keystone is bad for leaks ,i bought a new 2011 321reshe cougar high country all three slides leaked major water damage ,dealer had unit for 3 months ,got it home bedroom slide still leaking.leveling jacks dot work,still fighting to have them replaced.heater dont work all the time,axles had to be replaced because they were 4000 pounds under rated.looking to start class action suit on cougar high country,shorts in electrical forgot to mention.keystone trys to blame you on all the things that go wrong,they are very snotty to deal with.will never buy a keystone again.bringing back in for condensate in all light fixtures,rep is coming out between june of this year and december ,unit has been at dealers 4 and a half months,had to cancel all trips,looking to be compensated or take back as lemon,total nightmare,sunybrook,and jayco are best deals for tt or 5th wheel.thor bought out keystone and they are all made like garbage.save your sanity and money and stay away from keystone.

[ftwildernessguy]

Originally Posted by karenkevinone

keystone is bad for leaks ,i bought a new 2011 321reshe cougar high country all three slides leaked major water damage ,dealer had unit for 3 months ,got it home bedroom slide still leaking.leveling jacks dot work,still fighting to have them replaced.heater dont work all the time,axles had to be replaced because they were 4000 pounds under rated.looking to start class action suit on cougar high country,shorts in electrical forgot to mention.keystone trys to blame you on all the things that go wrong,they are very snotty to deal with.will never buy a keystone again.bringing back in for condensate in all light fixtures,rep is coming out between june of this year and december ,unit has been at dealers 4 and a half months,had to cancel all trips,looking to be compensated or take back as lemon,total nightmare,sunybrook,and jayco are best deals for tt or 5th wheel.thor bought out keystone and they are all made like garbage.save your sanity and money and stay away from keystone.

Thanks for your helpful, if not entirely accurrate, post. Welcome to the group!

[jje1960]

Our view...Not good. We bought a brand new unit in 2007, RVision 27QBSS. This unit was perfect for us, layout with family of four was awesome, enough space to really enjoy a two week vacation. Within the first year, the water leaks were outrageous, both front windows, near the TV antenna, pouring in around the slide.... Dealer did their best to repair everything, replacing entire wall panels, sealing.... At the end of the year, "other" issues started to rear their ugly head, long story short, the unit had severe issues that required all tires being replaced due to axle misalignment and yes both axles replaced. Reason for relating all this?..... If the unit has severe water leak issues, that's what the FBI call a clue... quality control may be an issue on that unit or unit's that came off the line. We lost plenty of $ (how's swallowing 5k sound) getting out from under that unit, and in all fairness it was not a Keystone (which we are super happy proud owners now) but just wanted to relate that experience. Get the unit repaired as quickly as possible and look for every little thing that is not right, that's the best advise I can give after past experience.

[Englishman]

The trailer is currently at the dealer and should be repaired by the middle of next week.

[haffcke]

Originally Posted by wingmoto

I am in a similar situation. I have a 2012 Keystone Premier 21BHPR and have had nothing but problems. While some of my problems have been shakedown problems, the quantity of issues and severity of some leaves me to question the overall quality of the unit and has shown significant issues in quality control of Keystone. This is my FIRST Keystone trailer and my 3rd new trailer in 13+ years and I have never had so many problems.
I discovered my leak about 2 weeks prior to closing my unit for the year. I had gone into the trailer on a Friday for a weekend of camping and was blown away by the smell. Upon further investigation, eyes were burning and I could hardly breathe. I noticed something on the outside of my dinette. Lifted the cushions and found mold and mildew all under the dinette, everything stored in there is ruined and the whole trailer smells awful.
To Keystone's credit, they have fixed every problem I have had so far. Mold however is a showstopper for me and I cannot be more displeased with this purchase and trailer. I dropped the trailer back off again to the dealer the weekend after Columbus Day and I am still waiting for a response from the dealer and I don't know what Keystone is planning on doing.
I did talk to the dealer last week and he said that I can only work through them and not directly through the manufacturer. I suspect this may quickly escalate into a legal issue and I am not sure what I should do from here. While I am glad to see I am not the only one to have these types of issues, it is certainly disheartening.
I would appreciate opionions on how I should deal with this. I have hardly used my trailer this year due to all the problems I have had... For a 2012, I'm finding the number of issues and severity unacceptable.

i had some leak problems with my 2011 bullet and went to the keystone customer service site and they bent over backwards steering me to the right place to have it fixed, couldn't get back to my org. dealer i was away from home. give them a try, good folks. Phil

[Englishman]

The Trailer has returned from the Dealer. The roof leak was repaie look the removed the old sealer accross the from seam and replaced it so far no leak.
The slider was leaking because 3 of the 4 rubber washer on the wires had come loss they are now fixed in place. But we will have to wait until the spring to find out if that stops the water. The radio was also replace so hopefully that will stay off. I had also founf a leak on the slider outside locker so they replaced the whole seal. Now all we need is for the weather to warm up and the 2012 camping season to start.

[larrym]

Not knowing how much time is left on your initial warranty, if it was me and time was growing short, I'd have sprinklers all over the rig...if it's not freezing in your area that is.