Purchase experience

[cb1000rider]

So below reflects my experience (from my perspective) and is largely a commentary on the RV purchase process. It is not a reflection on Keystone. It's meant to be a constructive report that may or may help other buyers in terms of what to expect.

Pre-purchase:
Sales isn't my favorite career, so I always start off somewhat skeptical of what any sales person says. My wife did initial shopping, as she's in charge of all things lifestyle practical. She found a floor plan that she liked with another brand. I researched that brand and found it to be stick framed, which I wasn't crazy about. Keystone provided largely the same features a bit higher price, but had steel framing that I was after.

The sales guy was actually pretty good. Not pushy. He answered most of my questions and provided information that I wasn't aware of - like that the lippert trailer frame could actually be aligned. He did provide one piece of misinformation - he indicated that 7k axles were mislabeled - covering for my question about 16.5k gross weight on 2 x 7k axles... He, like me, didn't consider distribution of the pin weight.

They provide a membership to "route 66" where the sales guy indicated that I'd get priority service and repair across the US. This this is how they address some of the marketing from places like RVDirect.com.

Price negotiation - it was end of the month, I really do think that played a factor. Searched RV trader and they immediately price matched another dealer.


Locking up the purchase:
A $1000 deposit was required to have the trailer prepped. That means no PDI and no real testing of anything that required electricity.

They were pretty pushy about the deposit - asking me to send CC information via email over the weekend. I told them to call me on Monday instead. They said the deposit would be refunded once it closed.


Pre-purchase inspection
So I *never* buy new. Not a new car, nothing. The toy hauler - I didn't see enough depreciation to justify used and 95% of all RVs are not cared for to my standards. As such, I had no experience with the purchase process and typical pre-buy qualification. I got educated on it late through this forum, printed a checklist, and emailed the dealer indicating that I needed several hours to walk through the RV, was going to take my time, and didn't require assistance. I was told "no problem".

We wired them a down payment. They were very concerned when that wire didn't arrive immediately. I asked if I could send wire confirmation and they said "no" and suggested that I immediately bring a cashers check in the same amount as the wire. I confirmed with my bank that the wire went out and didn't bring them another cashiers check. I contrast this to a car/truck purchase where they're pretty laid back about it and would even take a personal check. The wire showed up at 5pm - not sure why it transferred that late.

Arriving, they had a tech out who walked me through everything. He was absolutely great and I really appreciate the people that turn "wrenches" on these things for a living. I knew how everything worked, minus some surprises with the tanks (multiple gray) and with the electric water heater operation.

He did hover over me while I went through my inspection, including the roof. I'm quite sure that I wasn't to be allowed to inspect unsupervised. After 2 hours, I started getting pressure - finance manager was showing up, etc. I ignored it and told them that I'd be done when I was satisfied.

One ridiculous thing happened. I was pestered by the tech to have "winterization" service done. Mind you this is Texas in May. He asked me twice. I declined. I told him it was ridiculous, but he said he was required to ask.

All in all, I found two minor issues - one with garage door alignment and the other with adjustment of the garage bed. Neither could be fixed "that day" - which I was OK with and at this point, I had enough confidence to sign without those repairs.


Closing
Back to the back room. I had allowed them to run credit - but only if they were confident that they could beat my rate from a local credit union. And they did by .25%. Good enough.

I got the hard sell on a service plan. Actually 4 different service plans. I was told that they were "bumper to bumper" - but knew better. They were actually ALL inclusionary warranties with deductibles, far from bumper to bumper. He also tried to sell them by monthly payment increase. I told him that I wouldn't even discuss them in monthly payment form. When translated to dollars, a 5-year not-bumper-to-bumper warranty was $5000.

He told me that water pumps fail and would be covered by warranty. I pointed out that a water pump is under $100 and that it might be covered by warranty, but it'd still be subject to deductible. Bad example. He said the "stereo" might fail. I indicated that I could buy a lot of stereo for $5k.

The next press was the "mattress" sale - for only $1000. Declined.



They didn't refund the deposit, they applied it to close. I had an opportunity to catch it in supplied purchase documents prior, so it's really my fault and I think just a miscommunication. Wasn't a big deal to me.

The only real surprise was that their financing had a pre-payment penalty. It's 100% my fault that I didn't stipulate, but pre-paying is going to end up costing me a little bit of money. It wasn't enough to trigger a re-do. Minor. But watch out for it if you plan to pay off early.

Once signed, I inquired about Route 66 and was told that it wasn't a repair service, but a diagnosis service... So that's kinda a bummer. Different message after the sale.

I asked about appliance warranty and he indicated that I'd need to register each component separately, but my Keystone warranty would be done by them. Again, pressed for service plan.. Asked me what I'd be willing to pay. Declined. A service plan may very well be a good idea for those that aren't mechanically focused - so I'm not knocking it or being negative, it just doesn't work well for me, usually the hassle of transportation is in excess of what it costs to repair something in terms of time/trouble. He asked if I "self-insured" everything. I said no.

Last, I got a disclaimer about post-sale service. The dealer indicated that the do Keystone warranty work, but the do not provide the warranty. I think this translates into "if Keystone won't cover it, we're not covering it", which I understand. I asked about priority service within the next 30 days, as we've got a 3k trip coming up and he said "no promises" - so in retrospect, that's something that I'd get worked out before the sale next time...


Hope this helps someone. Not a bad experience, just different than buying a car...

[Javi]

Knowing who the dealer is might help some folks when they start looking..

[cb1000rider]

I can't do that, unfortunately. It might be perceived as "bashing" and I've already been warned.

I want to make sure that I'm not damaging the dealer... I'm not unhappy with the process, just wanted to inform others of what they *might* run into when shopping for an RV, so that they can be prepared. I didn't have any problem with saying "no" - but I think going in with information is a valuable asset, so I hope this helps someone.

And this forum is country wide, so likely that information isn't particularly relevant in most cases.. If you're in my state, I'm happy to talk about it by PM and will provide details.

[jtyphoid]

Thanks for the detailed explanation of the process.

[cb1000rider]

Two other things that I remembered:

1) I was told that the Carbon 327 (by sales) was "3/4 ton tow-able" and that I had no need to go buy a 1-ton truck. That may be true empty. However it's got a 2950 pin weight and a gross weight of 16500... Looking at the 2015 Dodge spec, I didn't find a single truck configuration that could would be OK by the book at gross... Make sure you consider your gross towing weight and pin weight and do the math yourself.

2) No one told me that by getting a 1-ton truck (over 10000lbs GVRW) and a 16500 gross 5th wheel, my state requires that I have a Class-A license. My guess is that it's a non-issue most of the time, but it's something to consider. I'm working on dealing with that requirement now. I didn't ask and didn't know.. Until today.. :-)

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by cb1000rider

2) No one told me that by getting a 1-ton truck (over 10000lbs GVRW) and a 16500 gross 5th wheel, my state requires that I have a Class-A license. My guess is that it's a non-issue most of the time, but it's something to consider. I'm working on dealing with that requirement now. I didn't ask and didn't know.. Until today.. :-)

In many cases, the dealer may not know what the licensing requirements are and can't tell folks what he "doesn't know". In some instances, the dealer might not bother telling you since he figures that it is your responsibility to find out.

It may be a "non-issue most of the time" but sure enough you may get pulled over and then it definitely will become one. It's possible that you may have to leave your rig by the roadside or take it to a compound where it is kept until you can show you have the proper endorsement to tow it.

In many instances, RVers don't even know that there are special licensing requirements for units in excess of 10k (depending upon state or provincial regulations) and go about their way in total ignorance.

But try telling the LEO that "you didn't know about the law".

[JRTJH]

There are several threads and more than a few members here who reside in Texas and have just recently tested for and received their "upgraded" DL. You might do a search for Texas Driver's License requirements to see what they had to say about the test, the driving test and what to expect. All of their information is within the past 2 months so it's current, up to date info.

[Face Down]

Originally Posted by cb1000rider

I knew how everything worked, minus some surprises with the tanks (multiple gray) and with the electric water heater operation.

Would you mind expanding on the operation of this? I never asked during my walk through and until now I assumed that we only had a gas unit. I just checked my spec sheet and it listed having a Elec/Gas water heater in my 357. I only have one switch on my control panel, flip it and the gas comes on. My last camper had elec/gas water heater and there was a switch for both. We ran a majority of the time on Gas only just because with 30A service, we kept most of the juice available for the AC unit. Now with 50A it will be nice to save some propane.

[cb1000rider]

If it's the same as the 327: Go outside the rig, pull the cover on the water heater. There is a switch. That's the "electric heat" switch. Why they put it on the unit and non-remote, I don't know...

It'd be easy to leave it on. And if you didn't happen to have water in the heater, that'd be bad...

[cb1000rider]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

There are several threads and more than a few members here who reside in Texas and have just recently tested for and received their "upgraded" DL. You might do a search for Texas Driver's License requirements to see what they had to say about the test, the driving test and what to expect. All of their information is within the past 2 months so it's current, up to date info.

I'll look into that. I know that the first part is to pass the written, so I've just pulled that section 14 of the CDL. Seems to have very little to do with owning/driving an RV. If anyone reads this has passed in Texas in the last 2 years - please PM, especially I'm looking for the "Austin contact number" in case they try to make me take the CDL.

I might be worth noting, when I was shopping for trucks I saw options to be able to "set" the tag for the GVRW. Simply ordering one with a 10k GVRW tag would have made this a non-issue. My understanding is that it doesn't change the configuration of the truck at all.

[sourdough]

Thanks for the detailed report on your experience. I'm sure there will be lots of interested buyers that will want to look it over.

Some points;

Buying an RV is most definitely not like buying a car. The experience is just not the same and a LOT of knowledge is required of the buyer to keep from making a mistake.

All buying experiences are not the same. In my experiences, and the ones I've read on RV forums, dealerships vary greatly in the way they approach sales and a potential buyer. Sounds like yours was mid road. Some places are just irritatingly pushy and won't allow a personal inspection and others, like mine, power up the unit, set it out and let you go over it.

I think all dealerships go thru the mandatory attempts at upselling this and that. My finance manager just asked; once, no push. Any more than that and I usually will get upset.

As I said, your detailed experience will at least hopefully help a potential new buyer on the forum to understand what it is that he is about to get involved in; appreciated.

[jtyphoid]

Originally Posted by cb1000rider

I might be worth noting, when I was shopping for trucks I saw options to be able to "set" the tag for the GVRW. Simply ordering one with a 10k GVRW tag would have made this a non-issue. My understanding is that it doesn't change the configuration of the truck at all.

But then you might end up being "technically" and possibly legally overloaded. Sometimes we can't win...

[Kojak]

If I have already signed the preliminary contract but not the final, can I still back out of the sale?
I also did a stop payment on my check so they have no money of mine.

[C130]

cb1000ruder, I think you have your "private messaging" turned off. I, along with a few others on here, recently took the Class A Exempt driving test here in Texas. Message me with any questions, there's a long thread about the entire process. I did my driving test in Bryan, written in Conroe.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by C130

cb1000ruder, I think you have your "private messaging" turned off.

That member had been banned so everything is turned off including PM's.