Towing Toy hauler questions.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Moonchaser

We have the same 2018 ram 2500 mega cab sb diesel truck but our payload capacity is 3890 lb. We tow a 2011 Keystone Raptor 35.5' dry wt 11335 lbs payload 5100 lbs GVWR16435 lbs. Other than Air Lift bags in rear it is stock & pulls/stops fine. Just went 2000 miles. We use an Anderson 5th wheel hitch & love it.

While I wouldn't be surprised that you pull a 16k+lb. trailer with a 3/4 (since I see those like that all the time) it doesn't make it right or safe - just makes you luck....so far.

I've looked at probably hundreds of Ram HD trucks and I find it strange that I've never seen a 3/4 approaching that payload on CC trucks much less mega cabs. In fact, Ram says that the max payload for 2018 Ram like yours would only be 2340 - bottom line, 2nd page;

https://www.ramtruck.ca/documents/ra...cations-en.pdf

Of course, maybe you have that one off prototype that was built that no one else got, if so a picture of the payload sticker would be in order. If not I think one could only refer to post #50.

[Laredo Tugger]

I guess a lot of the preceding arguments boil down to your integrity.
If the circumstances arose that required you to sell your TV and 5er (it does happen), would you feel comfortable selling both for someone else to drive off with a set up that "you made just as capable as a 3500" or would you sleep better splitting them apart.
If your'e not willing to sell the risk to someone else then why do you take it (towing over weighted)?
RMc

[K_N_L]

A few years back most every 3/4 ton truck I ran across was a 10K rated trunk, and that made no sense. Until you know that the fed's classify it as a class 2(b) truck which is the 10K limit. Cross over to 10,001 and most states charge you more in registration and taxes, especially if commercial use.


https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10380


So the majors built them and slap a 10k GVWR rating. So what is that 10k really capable of, dont know and not looking to find out. The pin weight on a ready to roll TH is likely to push the rear axle weight over the rating of the stock 3/4 tires and very close on most SRW 1 ton. My risk level was against losing (physically, financial, legally) should I be in an accident whether my fault or not. YMMV.

[Roscommon48]

it'll pull it but you really need a one ton

[MikeRP]

Originally Posted by Moonchaser

We have the same 2018 ram 2500 mega cab sb diesel truck but our payload capacity is 3890 lb. We tow a 2011 Keystone Raptor 35.5' dry wt 11335 lbs payload 5100 lbs GVWR16435 lbs. Other than Air Lift bags in rear it is stock & pulls/stops fine. Just went 2000 miles. We use an Anderson 5th wheel hitch & love it.

This is exactly what I’ve been saying folks. Ram and Ford both are starting to put the actual payload capacity on their 2500 trucks. My understanding is that one can still request the 10,000 GVWR. This has been a license tax etc issue for folks not a Capability issue. Sorry KNL you posted while I was trying to type.

It’s easy to see that’s 3500 SRW capability. So instead of assuming he or mostly me is fibbing, let’s work this through.

It gets back to the OP’s 2500 2018 Ram Mega Cab’s capability. Not it’s artificial limitation on the sticker.

If we set aside whether we believe the sticker = capability on a 2500 and then we say, can Moonchaser’s truck w his reported numbers safely haul the OP’s proposed trailer?

What would be the answer?

[xrated]

Originally Posted by MikeRP

This is exactly what I’ve been saying folks. Ram and Ford both are starting to put the actual payload capacity on their 2500 trucks. My understanding is that one can still request the 10,000 GVWR. This has been a license tax etc issue for folks not a Capability issue. Sorry KNL you posted while I was trying to type.

It’s easy to see that’s 3500 SRW capability. So instead of assuming he or mostly me is fibbing, let’s work this through.

It gets back to the OP’s 2500 2018 Ram Mega Cab’s capability. Not it’s artificial limitation on the sticker.

If we set aside whether we believe the sticker = capability on a 2500 and then we say, can Moonchaser’s truck w his reported numbers safely haul the OP’s proposed trailer?

What would be the answer?

One of the answers would be..."Moonchaser DOESN'T have 3890 on a 2018 SB, Megacab, diesel........it ain't happening. In fact, unless it's a 2WD model, I wouldn't even believe 2890. Upgraded payloads on the 3/4T and 1 Ton trucks for Ford and Chevy/GMC didn't start happening until the 2020 model year.

[CedarCreekWoody]

My 2019 Ram tradesman with 6.7 Cummins shows 2560 payload.

[MikeRP]

Originally Posted by xrated

One of the answers would be..."Moonchaser DOESN'T have 3890 on a 2018 SB, Megacab, diesel........it ain't happening. In fact, unless it's a 2WD model, I wouldn't even believe 2890. Upgraded payloads on the 3/4T and 1 Ton trucks for Ford and Chevy/GMC didn't start happening until the 2020 model year.

I know that Ram started this sooner than 2020. I again thought late 2018. I certainly wouldn’t call a member a fibber being nice.

And you didn’t answer my question. Me, I wouldn’t be afraid for any late model HD pickup to handle the fifth wheel the OP is looking at in the beginning. That’s my opinion. That is nothing for a properly equipped 2500.

In fact RV crashes are rarely related to being overweight. I saw at least 5 RV’s this last week pulled off the road with tire failures and I talked to one of them at my campground. Michelin.

The guy next to me this weekend flipped his truck and RV last winter. Totaled the works. Weather conditions.

It just points out to me, we as a group need less discussion about truck weights, not that this isn’t important, and more about safety and training in general. Fifth wheels, again in my opinion, are a steep learning curve for a new camping family.

We could all do more to help em out.

Peace

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by MikeRP

I know that Ram started this sooner than 2020. I again thought late 2018. I certainly wouldn’t call a member a fibber being nice.

And you didn’t answer my question. Me, I wouldn’t be afraid for any late model HD pickup to handle the fifth wheel the OP is looking at in the beginning. That’s my opinion. That is nothing for a properly equipped 2500.

In fact RV crashes are rarely related to being overweight. I saw at least 5 RV’s this last week pulled off the road with tire failures and I talked to one of them at my campground. Michelin.

The guy next to me this weekend flipped his truck and RV last winter. Totaled the works. Weather conditions.

It just points out to me, we as a group need less discussion about truck weights, not that this isn’t important, and more about safety and training in general. Fifth wheels, again in my opinion, are a steep learning curve for a new camping family.

We could all do more to help em out.

Peace

Here is a link to Ram's website for 2020 2500 trucks. I think those mythical 3800-4000lb payloads for a 2500 must be a....myth?

https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-guide.html

[xrated]

Originally Posted by MikeRP

I know that Ram started this sooner than 2020. I again thought late 2018. I certainly wouldn’t call a member a fibber being nice.

And you didn’t answer my question. Me, I wouldn’t be afraid for any late model HD pickup to handle the fifth wheel the OP is looking at in the beginning. That’s my opinion. That is nothing for a properly equipped 2500.

In fact RV crashes are rarely related to being overweight. I saw at least 5 RV’s this last week pulled off the road with tire failures and I talked to one of them at my campground. Michelin.

The guy next to me this weekend flipped his truck and RV last winter. Totaled the works. Weather conditions.

It just points out to me, we as a group need less discussion about truck weights, not that this isn’t important, and more about safety and training in general. Fifth wheels, again in my opinion, are a steep learning curve for a new camping family.

We could all do more to help em out.

Peace

Sorry, you can't preach about "more safety", AND suggest a truck that is going to be severely overloaded........be OK!

And as far as saying someone is "fibbing", that's not necessarily the case. There are lots and lot of folks that simply do not know how to get to the actual payload numbers for their truck. They read a brochure, look at a towing guide, or whatever their source is and they mistakenly see the part about Maximum payload for that model. Two things about that....1 They don't bother to look at the footnotes that are there with the "maximum payload number" that tells you "When properly equipped". In layman's terms, that means a Regular cab, 2 WD, base model or work truck with ZERO options, and many times the gas motor (vs. diesel) So they see max payload and automatically think that is their truck. 2 The actual payload number for the vehicle is clearly stated on the Government mandated sticker, usually on the door or more likely on the door post on the driver's side of the truck. That number is the gospel for the payload capacity of THAT truck, as it was built and came off of the assembly line. Anything that is done to the truck afterwards......tool box in the bed, a 5ver hitch added, spray in bedliner applied, tonneau cover installed........anything and everything added causes that sticker number to decrease by the amount of weight of the item(s) added to the truck. It's just that simple

[notanlines]

I believe xrated statement "There are lots and lot of folks that simply do not know how to get to the actual payload numbers for their truck. They read a brochure, look at a towing guide, or whatever their source is and they mistakenly see the part about Maximum payload for that model" says it all. I also believe the 'fibbers' aren't only hanging out on payload threads, but also on the MPG threads. I'm also convinced that a large number of RV'ers simply don't know HOW TO figure mileage on their vehicles. Imagine that same group trying to decipher their needs for a new TV....

[avalanchehd]

Maybe the payload sticker is misleading.
Fill the tank with fuel, add about 200lbs to the bed for hitch, load wife and child, go find cat scales. For 10 bucks you know what all of that weighs.
Then compare you front and rear gross axle weights (sticker) to actual axle weights, do a little math and see what is left for pin weight.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by avalanchehd

Maybe the payload sticker is misleading.
Fill the tank with fuel, add about 200lbs to the bed for hitch, load wife and child, go find cat scales. For 10 bucks you know what all of that weighs.
Then compare you front and rear gross axle weights (sticker) to actual axle weights, do a little math and see what is left for pin weight.

There are 2 schools of thoughts on your process I believe.

There is a payload listed on the truck, it's not misleading, it says MUST NOT EXCEED. Generally that number totals shy of the gawr ratings. Reason is to give the owner a cushion before he loads the truck up to all the axles can carry, then throws on another 500lbs. or more, hits a ditch and the axle tube breaks/falls out. So they leave a cushion because they know human nature and that by and large they will NOT adhere to the payload amount exactly.

When tallying up gawrs and then loading to that, the exact same thing is going to happen; overloading, but this time you are overloading over the mechanical limits of the vehicle. Some say the difference between what the payload allows vs the gawrs is "misleading", silly or a cya for the manufacturer. In fact, it is their way of giving the owner a safety cushion in the hopes they won't kill themselves or someone else by breaking a critical component.

[xrated]

The Payload number is simply a result....a result of all of the components of the truck/car/whatever. Drive train, springs, tires, wheels, brakes, and everything that goes into a safe number to load the vehicle to. And while towing capability is a result of engine, transmission, rearend gearing, hp and torque and probably some other things I'm not thinking of, the bottom line is that no matter what the towing capability is listed at, the other ratings cannot be exceeded. And with a 5th wheel camping type trailer, almost always the payload number will be exceeded before you reach the towing weight numbers.

I've had people ask me how that can be. The manufacturer says that it can tow xxxx amount, but I can't get there because the payload number will not let me tow a trailer that weighs xxxx amount without exceeding the payload rating on the truck. They must be lying about their numbers. Actually, no, they aren't. There is a huge difference between towing a 5ver camping trailer and towing a flat bed/utility trailer hauling cargo, etc. You might easily be able to tow a utility trailer that is loaded to the stated towing capacity because you have the option of placing the cargo on the trailer far enough back to not exceed the pin or gooseneck weight. With a 5ver camping type trailer, the storage space is where it is. It's not easy to move the heavy weight to the back in a camping trailer to lighten the pin weight (Toy Haulers excepted). And did anyone ever notice that when the manufacturers state the towing capacity for their trucks, not a SINGLE ONE OF THEM state "5th wheel camping trailer"..........they simply say "trailer".

So the bottom line is that the manufacturers provide numbers for their product's weight capacities and towing ratings, but it is up to all of us to understand and know how to use the numbers they provide....in other words, don't exceed any of the numbers. If you hit payload capacity before you reach towing capacity.........then don't exceed the payload. If you've reached the towing capacity rating for the truck and you haven't exceeded the payload via pin or gooseneck capacity or the GCVWR......you did good! Common sense should prevail! I know, it's not all that common anymore!

[NMRandy]

My 2012 GMC 2500HD crew cab, 4x4, Duramax, has a payload of 2413, (on the sticker). GVW is 10,000lbs. New GMC 2500HD, crew cab, 4x4, Duramax,
has GVW of 11,550, and a payload of 3563, (on the website). Looks like the new ones have more payload due to higher GVW. I checked parts catalogs for suspension and brake components and found they were the same for a 2500HD and a 3500HD SRW. Even the axle tube is the same. I am not sure what the difference between the two trucks are? Springs maybe? Tires?

[xrated]

It could be any number of things. The increase of the GVWR to 11,550 obviously allows for more payload capacity if the truck weight stays the same. At one time, the Ford F250 and F350 showed the same part number for the rear axles. But, the internal parts were larger/beefier on the F350 vs. the F250. If you needed parts (internal stuff) for the axle, they had to have the V.I.N. number so that they could order the correct parts.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by NMRandy

My 2012 GMC 2500HD crew cab, 4x4, Duramax, has a payload of 2413, (on the sticker). GVW is 10,000lbs. New GMC 2500HD, crew cab, 4x4, Duramax,
has GVW of 11,550, and a payload of 3563, (on the website). Looks like the new ones have more payload due to higher GVW. I checked parts catalogs for suspension and brake components and found they were the same for a 2500HD and a 3500HD SRW. Even the axle tube is the same. I am not sure what the difference between the two trucks are? Springs maybe? Tires?

It has been "rumored" that GM is moving toward eliminating the 1500/2500/3500 model series and producing only two truck lines, the LT and the HD series. Within those series there will be "specific GVW ratings" that will give the trucks a variety of payload capacities.... Ford and RAM have followed GM's lead by increasing the GVW ratings on their 3/4 ton trucks. I don't have any information on "when or how" that conversion (if the rumors are true) will occur, but it seems like a logical move to reorganize the truck lines just like GM reorganized and eliminated the Pontiac, Hummer and Oldsmobile lines.