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Old 08-10-2020, 08:31 PM   #1
Talleyman66
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Towing Toy hauler questions.

I have a 2018 Ram 2500, mega cab, short bed, diesel engine. 1609 lbs max payload. 16909 lbs max towing. 6500 lbs gawr rear. I have been trying to gather information on towing a 5th wheel toy hauler as far as how much total weight and how much pin weight. I have read to not exceed max payload and I have read to not exceed gawr. Here are the specs for the 5th wheel I am looking to purchase.

Length 39.25 ft. (471 in.)
Width 8.5 ft. (102 in.)
Height 13.42 ft. (161 in.)
Interior Height 6.33 ft. (76 in.)
Weight
Dry Weight 10,762 lbs.
Payload Capacity 3,274 lbs.
GVWR 14,036 lbs.
Hitch Weight 2,036 lbs..

Will my vehicle pull this safely? Any advice is appreciated. I am trying to gather as much info that I can so I can make a semi educated decision.

Thank You
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Old 08-10-2020, 08:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talleyman66 View Post
I have a 2018 Ram 2500, mega cab, short bed, diesel engine. 1609 lbs max payload. 16909 lbs max towing. 6500 lbs gawr rear. I have been trying to gather information on towing a 5th wheel toy hauler as far as how much total weight and how much pin weight. I have read to not exceed max payload and I have read to not exceed gawr. Here are the specs for the 5th wheel I am looking to purchase.

Length 39.25 ft. (471 in.)
Width 8.5 ft. (102 in.)
Height 13.42 ft. (161 in.)
Interior Height 6.33 ft. (76 in.)
Weight
Dry Weight 10,762 lbs.
Payload Capacity 3,274 lbs.
GVWR 14,036 lbs.
Hitch Weight 2,036 lbs..

Will my vehicle pull this safely? Any advice is appreciated. I am trying to gather as much info that I can so I can make a semi educated decision.

Thank You
Welcome to the forum. Nice to see you asking before you buy. The short answer is that is way to much trailer for that truck. The max payload for the truck of 1609 is how much weight you can carry with the truck. That includes passengers, cargo, hitch, and any options installed in or on the truck since it left the factory. When you figure out weights go off the GVWR of the trailer and figure about 20-25% for the actual hitch weight. In this case 2800-3500 hitch weight. So a truck that should carry that trailer would have a payload of at least 4,000lbs. Most likely a dually, but very top end of a single rear wheel.
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Old 08-10-2020, 08:52 PM   #3
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You need to look no further than that 1609 payload. That is actually low for a 1/2 ton. Max tow means nothing; purely a sales ploy and you don't own that "one off" truck. Your truck can't possible "carry" the weight of that trailer. Will the diesel pull it? Yes. Safely? No.

You have a sticker on your truck that gives gawr for front and rear. You need to know that.

At a 14k gvw, at 20% pin weight, you are at 2800 lbs. before you do anything vs a 1600 lb. payload. You need to be looking at a small travel trailer.

As an example; I had a 3/4 ton Ram, 3190 payload and pulled a 92-9300 lb. trailer. I was comfortable but didn't want anymore weight to be safe. Look at that vs what you are talking about. Another example: I have the truck and trailer in my signature. A 1 ton just shy of 4k payload and a trailer that will weigh less than what you are looking at - that's all it can carry.

In your situation, with a 1600 lb. payload, I would be looking at a bumper pull in the 7k gvw range. Nothing like 14k...that's just shouldn't happen by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old 08-11-2020, 02:00 AM   #4
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Tally, you've been given good info here from both Danny and RJ. The pin weight will approach 3000-3300 pounds when all is said and done. By the way, 5th wheels usually use the term 'pin weight,' and bumper pulls use the term 'hitch weight.' It kind of keeps conversations going in the same direction without you having to explain what you have.
Your RAM will pull the socks off a rooster, no doubt. Towing is not a problem torque-wise. Your truck simply shouldn't HAUL the kind of weight yours will see with that RV. Towing is what's behind your hitch, and haul is the weight in your truck and bed.
I also suggest a nice toy hauler travel trailer. Try to stay under 7-8K if you can.
And good on ya for asking BEFORE you buy!
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Old 08-11-2020, 03:20 AM   #5
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39 foot and dry weight of 10,700? I’d like to see the data sticker on that.
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Old 08-11-2020, 03:23 AM   #6
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Welcome to the board from Southeastern Connecticut!!

All of the above is excellent advise. Please follow it for your safety, and everybody else's, and thanks for asking first. You will have many enjoyable adventures ahead of you, if you are comfortable with your choices.

As a rule of thumb, dry weight is a useless figure. It doesn't have batteries, LPG tanks, spare tire, or any tools etc. Always use Gross weight and work down from there, for the trailer. It's amazing how fast the weight goes up when you add even things like the 40# bag of dog food.

Next critical figure is the GVRW of the tow vehicle. This includes your tow vehicle when ready to roll. Mom, Dad, kids, dog, pin weight, snacks, full tank of fuel... etc

Now we need to figure Gross Combined VW. I know it can seem overwhelming, but there is a major knowledge base here, and we're all willing to help.

Good Luck,
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Old 08-11-2020, 04:24 AM   #7
wiredgeorge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talleyman66 View Post
I have a 2018 Ram 2500, mega cab, short bed, diesel engine. 1609 lbs max payload. 16909 lbs max towing. 6500 lbs gawr rear. I have been trying to gather information on towing a 5th wheel toy hauler as far as how much total weight and how much pin weight. I have read to not exceed max payload and I have read to not exceed gawr. Here are the specs for the 5th wheel I am looking to purchase.

Length 39.25 ft. (471 in.)
Width 8.5 ft. (102 in.)
Height 13.42 ft. (161 in.)
Interior Height 6.33 ft. (76 in.)
Weight
Dry Weight 10,762 lbs.
Payload Capacity 3,274 lbs.
GVWR 14,036 lbs.
Hitch Weight 2,036 lbs..

Will my vehicle pull this safely? Any advice is appreciated. I am trying to gather as much info that I can so I can make a semi educated decision.

Thank You

Talleyman66, That payload you cited doesn't seem like much for a 3/4 ton truck. Where did you get this number from. Actual payload number can be seen on the yellow sticker in the door frame and says something like, "the combined weight of occupants and cargo" and lists payload in both KG and LBS. The payload you mentioned sounds like a half ton.
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Old 08-11-2020, 06:57 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Talleyman66, That payload you cited doesn't seem like much for a 3/4 ton truck. Where did you get this number from. Actual payload number can be seen on the yellow sticker in the door frame and says something like, "the combined weight of occupants and cargo" and lists payload in both KG and LBS. The payload you mentioned sounds like a half ton.
Well a loaded Mega Cab Diesel could weigh 8,391# with a 150# driver and full tank of fuel. That truck only has a 10,000# GVWR.
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Old 08-11-2020, 09:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
You need to look no further than that 1609 payload. That is actually low for a 1/2 ton. Max tow means nothing; purely a sales ploy and you don't own that "one off" truck. Your truck can't possible "carry" the weight of that trailer. Will the diesel pull it? Yes. Safely? No.

You have a sticker on your truck that gives gawr for front and rear. You need to know that.

At a 14k gvw, at 20% pin weight, you are at 2800 lbs. before you do anything vs a 1600 lb. payload. You need to be looking at a small travel trailer.

As an example; I had a 3/4 ton Ram, 3190 payload and pulled a 92-9300 lb. trailer. I was comfortable but didn't want anymore weight to be safe. Look at that vs what you are talking about. Another example: I have the truck and trailer in my signature. A 1 ton just shy of 4k payload and a trailer that will weigh less than what you are looking at - that's all it can carry.

In your situation, with a 1600 lb. payload, I would be looking at a bumper pull in the 7k gvw range. Nothing like 14k...that's just shouldn't happen by any stretch of the imagination.
I agree......even if the trailer is totally empty, as in the dry weight number, that, in and of itself will overload the truck. No reason to go any further.
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Old 08-11-2020, 12:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
You need to look no further than that 1609 payload. That is actually low for a 1/2 ton. Max tow means nothing; purely a sales ploy and you don't own that "one off" truck. Your truck can't possible "carry" the weight of that trailer. Will the diesel pull it? Yes. Safely? No.

You have a sticker on your truck that gives gawr for front and rear. You need to know that.

At a 14k gvw, at 20% pin weight, you are at 2800 lbs. before you do anything vs a 1600 lb. payload. You need to be looking at a small travel trailer.

As an example; I had a 3/4 ton Ram, 3190 payload and pulled a 92-9300 lb. trailer. I was comfortable but didn't want anymore weight to be safe. Look at that vs what you are talking about. Another example: I have the truck and trailer in my signature. A 1 ton just shy of 4k payload and a trailer that will weigh less than what you are looking at - that's all it can carry.

In your situation, with a 1600 lb. payload, I would be looking at a bumper pull in the 7k gvw range. Nothing like 14k...that's just shouldn't happen by any stretch of the imagination.
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I agree......even if the trailer is totally empty, as in the dry weight number, that, in and of itself will overload the truck. No reason to go any further.
LOL!
Are you two sure you did the math correctly???
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Old 08-11-2020, 01:54 PM   #11
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LOL!
Are you two sure you did the math correctly???
Uhh, Yep! I even took my shoes off for the calculation!
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Old 08-11-2020, 02:34 PM   #12
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Talleyman66 hasn't returned since last evening. Hope we didn't scare him off. I think it is sad that a 3/4 ton truck has about as much payload as a 1/2 ton. Why buy it?
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Old 08-11-2020, 03:06 PM   #13
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Talleyman66 hasn't returned since last evening. Hope we didn't scare him off. I think it is sad that a 3/4 ton truck has about as much payload as a 1/2 ton. Why buy it?
Because it is rated to TOW 16,909#!
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Old 08-11-2020, 04:29 PM   #14
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I was hoping I was wrong about all the info I was gathering. Is there any way I can make my vehicle have more load capacity? (Grasping for straws) Changing springs, adding air bags etc....... Thanks
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Old 08-11-2020, 05:11 PM   #15
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I am very sorry about your situation. It happens far too often. I bought my first full size travel trailer in 1985 and dropped it on a 1985 Ford single cab, long bed F150. Nary a thought of weight came to mind; it was a truck...that was a trailer...trucks pulled trailers. And away I went. Never mind the squirreling all over the road, trying to make the wdh hitch do things it couldn't do, adding all the sway control I could get to no avail...I just kept towing - and having a pretty good time of it. Did that for several years.

Camped in a campground one day and this gentleman and I struck a conversation and during that I mentioned all the issues I was having with towing. He looked at the truck, looked at the trailer and hitch and just said - you don't have enough truck. I'm thinking what? it's a truck for crying out loud. Then I began to learn about "trucks", trailers and weights.

To your question; no, there isn't any way to increase that payload or the ability of that truck to "carry" anymore weight than the sticker says is allowed. There will be another sticker that will give you the max gawr for front and rear that is worth knowing along with gvwr and gcvwr. I mentioned in an earlier post about what you could look at weight wise (gvw) in an rv. I know it is absolutely not what you wanted to hear nor expected. Many members, including myself, have experienced that revelation, and disappointment when confronted with numbers that won't work.

I know you are "grasping at straws" but there is no way to safely put a trailer of the size you mentioned on that truck. The payload of your truck is less than many of the newer 1/2 tons. As you try to figure out what to get to make the numbers work don't hesitate to ask questions - we all feel your pain.
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Old 08-11-2020, 05:38 PM   #16
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There is only one way that I know of to increase the GVW of that truck to something that can safely tow the trailer you're looking at...

That one way is to remove the license plate and put it on the rear of a heavier duty truck with the capacity to do the job you're expecting it to do... Your current truck simply can't tow a trailer of that size and there's no "cheap way" to modify it to make it do what you need it to do.... IMO, trying to modify it "properly" so it has that kind of capability would cost more than just buying a new truck.
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Old 08-11-2020, 07:54 PM   #17
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With a tow behind trailer, do I still go by the max capacity of 1609 or is there a different formula for towing with the receiver hitch? If I use a weight distribution hitch, how does that effect the tongue weight of trailer? I have attached a pic of the other sticker from my vehicle. How can i use that information for determining how much I can tow? Thank you again guys for all the information you are providing.
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Old 08-11-2020, 08:05 PM   #18
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Same formula but 10-15% hitch weight instead of the higher pin weight. The hitch is sully 100 lbs so you 1609 goes a little further. One thing to consider is if you compromise on the trailer now you will buy a larger truck soon then buy the trailer you wanted in the first place. (Experience speaking) If at all possible change the truck now and get the trailer you want. You will be happier in the long run.
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Old 08-11-2020, 09:58 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Talleyman66 View Post
With a tow behind trailer, do I still go by the max capacity of 1609 or is there a different formula for towing with the receiver hitch? If I use a weight distribution hitch, how does that effect the tongue weight of trailer? I have attached a pic of the other sticker from my vehicle. How can i use that information for determining how much I can tow? Thank you again guys for all the information you are providing.
With YOUR truck you're limited to about a 7000lb GVWR travel trailer, no 5th wheels. Even with the 7k TT you'll use half of your 1600lb payload on the tongue weight then add 100lb hitch plus whatever else is in/on that truck that it didn't have from the factory.
Sorry this isn't what you hoped to hear & unfortunately you are not the first nor will you be the last to fall into this mess after listening to salespeople, reading misleading literature & advertising about truck max tow weights & RV dry weights, both mean nothing when towing RVs. Not ALL trucks are designed/built to haul heavy long tall RVs regardless of what they've shown hauling in the advertisements.
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Old 08-12-2020, 05:17 AM   #20
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I was hoping I was wrong about all the info I was gathering. Is there any way I can make my vehicle have more load capacity? (Grasping for straws) Changing springs, adding air bags etc....... Thanks
The loaded mega cab is killing you, but ultimately it is up to you to decide if you want to take the risk and run at the RAWR. People are negligent every day just take a drive down the road, see how many people you see doing the speed limit. Even at RAWR the mega cab is still a thorn.
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