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Old 04-26-2020, 05:07 AM   #1
gearhead
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Covid vs. the flu

Yes covid is worse than the flu.
I'm watching the Sunday morning talk shows. On one of the local shows it was mentioned that we've had 79 covid deaths in Houston, but in 2018 we had 2,000 flu deaths.
This just ain't right.
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Old 04-26-2020, 05:19 AM   #2
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Quote:
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Yes covid is worse than the flu.
I'm watching the Sunday morning talk shows. On one of the local shows it was mentioned that we've had 79 covid deaths in Houston, but in 2018 we had 2,000 flu deaths.
This just ain't right.
Only if you watch the media is the covid-19 worse than the flu. If you do your own research you will find that in MOST of the country the number of deaths from china flu is less than the everyday versions of the flu. Most of the country does not live 30 stories on top of one another. Me thinks we are being played here.
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Old 04-26-2020, 05:21 AM   #3
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A week ago the entire state of Texas had just over 400 deaths. The number of deaths in the 2017-18 season from the flu was almost 10,000. This is from Houston Chronicle about 5 days ago. Hmmm... I'm just sayin'
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Old 04-26-2020, 05:39 AM   #4
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So, "They" are reporting Covid-19 deaths, been doing so since around February (THIS YEAR) till now. Has anyone seen actual numbers for Flu death during this same time period (THIS YEAR)? I know I have not. It's because "they" are attributing every death to Covid. Flu, heart attacks, pneumonia's, someone falling off the roof of their house! If someone stands in the middle of the street and gets hit by a dump truck and dies, THEY are blaming THAT on Covid also! This whole thing is so twisted it's ridiculous. Don't sheepishly blindly accept what you hear. I grew up in the middle 1950, 1960's, and survived high school in the early 1970's. I caught the tail end of that Woodstock generation that questioned everything! I still do. It's time the rest of us question what's going on too.

Stay safe... absolutely agree... but don't blindly accept every jot and tittle what you hear on the news.
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Old 04-26-2020, 06:04 AM   #5
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Think how deadly the flu would be if we didn't have a vaccine. It's pretty bad stuff but we don't treat the flu the same way we treat the Covid 19. If everybody stayed home, wore masks, washed hands, and coughed into their elbow, the flu wouldn't be as bad either.
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Old 04-26-2020, 06:13 AM   #6
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Thinking "rationally" (for me this is rational, maybe you don't agree and that's OK)….

We had a "flu epidemic in 1917 that killed hundreds of thousands)… we didn't shut down the economy.

We had leprosy in the 30's that killed thousands of people... we didn't shut down the economy.

We had tuberculosis in the 40's that killed thousands of people... we didn't shut down the economy.

We had Polio in the 50's that killed thousands of people... we didn't shut down the economy.

We had HIV in the 70's that killed thousands of people... we didn't shut down the economy.

We had swine flu in the 80's that killed thousands of people... we didn't shut down the economy.

We had bird flu in the 90's that reportedly could kill thousands of people... we didn't shut down the economy.

We had Ebola in the 2000's that killed thousands of people... we didn't shut down the economy.

We've got COVID-19 now that has killed (statistically) thousands of people... We link any possible death to COVID-19 whether it's the "real cause of death or not". We've destroyed our entire economy in an attempt to control a virus that's still active but will likely diminish "naturally" when the sunlight and warmer temperatures prevail.

We've solved the "other big health issues" in time with vaccines and treatments. None of them are a continued threat that shuts our economy, even though "flu" still kills more people annually in this country, even with the available vaccines, and we "live through flu season every year" without shutting down the economy.

Why didn't we react this way with any other "health threat" during the last century?

Hmmmmm
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Old 04-26-2020, 06:42 AM   #7
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JRTJH, you and me should have a beer together someday!

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Old 04-26-2020, 07:23 AM   #8
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JRTJH, you and me should have a beer together someday!

Just one now gents. Consider the danger of alcohol lowering your immune system.
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Old 04-26-2020, 07:27 AM   #9
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Just one now gents. Consider the danger of alcohol lowering your immune system.
Really? My copious amounts of FireBall intake is what I believe has prevented me from getting sick.
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:05 AM   #10
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I just finished a liter of Evan Williams that was 100 proof. I've been having a dull recurring headache the last few weeks. Can't decide if it's from looking at the internet and TV too much or just being cooped up with Betty for 6 weeks or the virus. I'm thinking that 100 proof should have some internal disinfecting properties.
I'm thinking we're being played.
There's an election this year right? Uh-huh.....
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:43 AM   #11
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I see a couple of issues with what's happening in the world today. First (and most impactful in my opinion) is the lack of trust in the media. I grew up when what Walter Cronkite said was taken as gospel. Living around Baltimore there used to be 2 newspapers (The Sun and The News American), one liberal one conservative. When the News American went out of business there was no competition and The Sun went down in flames by displaying their bias like Pravda. They ended up with almost all AP stories and no investigative reporting. This was pre internet. Once the internet proliferated they were done.

So today, with the widespread use of social media watching the "news networks" or the "national news" is much like reading the front page of The National Enquirer. Who can you really trust to give you the "straight scoop"?

Comparing Covid-19 to the "Spanish Flu" of 1918 (which killed 17 million) was a different time/world. In 1918 it took someone a week or more to go from Europe to NYC). Today, tens of thousands come to this country DAILY in a matter of hours from Europe, less than 1 day from anywhere in the world. So while you may think you're safe in your "east of nowhere" town who knows what the possibility is? In the county I live in the first Covid-19 death was a man in his 20's who had visited NYC (about 170 miles away, or a couple of hours at the most from anywhere in the lower 48).

As for an immunization don't hold you're breath. There still isn't any immunization or vaccines for AIDS 18 years later, or SARS, or most of the influenzas' that we've seen over the last 50 years.

To my thinking the most dangerous effect of this epidemic and the resultant shut down are:
1. The overreach of government powers in the most illogical measures, i.e. not allowing attending church services while in a car, not allowing WalMart to sell "non food items", not allowing gun stores to open, stopping interstate travel, and the list of offences to our Bill of Rights go on. Thomas Jefferson said "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". I shudder to think what the "new normal" is the politicians are talking about.

2. The delay of the millions of "elective surgery" and treatments will have. People are afraid to get dialysis treatments and chemotherapy. Telemedicine doesn't screen for hypertension or lung issues. The doctor on your phone isn't listening to your heart, lungs, or digestive sounds. No cardiac tests, no blood test for A1C and other diagnostics.

3. The economic impact. I believe this will affect the poorest, least educated the hardest as it typically does but it will have a severe impact on everyone. Look at the restaurant industry which has been devastated by this. If you're a cook or waitstaff and where you worked doesn't come back then what are your options? Same with many manufacturing jobs. You can't follow the work if there isn't any.

The economic effect will also have an impact on health. Stress, eating less healthy, unaffordable medicines. There are over 100 million diabetics in this country now. Everyday diabetics die because they can't afford insulin which cost's have increased over 1,000% in the last decade.

How will we pay for all of this? The government handing out Trillions (fIn the American system one billion is 1,000,000,000 and a trillion is 1,000,000,000,000 so one trillion is one thousand times one billion. In the British system one billion is 1,000,000,000,000 and one trillion is 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 so one trillion is one million times one billion.)
That's a lot to say the least but who pays for it? We do obviously. If the government just "prints more money" then the value of each dollar is less in a direct relation to how many dollars are printed (remember that big number? ). That leads to runaway inflation and a whole other can of worms. This "printing money" issue is a result of the Federal Reserve Note. It used to be the US was a "gold standard", a ten dollar bill was worth the equivalent of the weight of ten dollars worth of gold at current rate. The federal government confiscated those notes and issued the current note that is basically a promissory note by the Federal Reserve Bank that they will stand behind it. The Federal Reserve Bank doesn't have and endless supply so if the Government print's money they go to the bank and take out a loan but they sell their debt to remain solvent. For the last 4 decades or so the entity buying our debt has been China.

So as for the "lockdowns" of states that aren't as affected I think this was to prevent a mass exodus. Anyone remember seeing the images of the roads before Katrina hit NOLA? NOLA is a city of about 400K. Can you image the tens of millions trying to flee the North east?

This I know is a "bleak outlook" but it's how I see how things happen and why. I may be wrong and I pray that I am but nothing get's folks to comply like fear does, whether that's fear of a dictator's tyrannical actions or a fear of death from a disease. How rapidly the citizenry of this country to comply to the fear of this virus scares the hell out of me. There are some small pockets of resistance pocking up so how the response to that plays out I think will be an indicator of what "the new normal" will look like.

JMHO
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Old 04-26-2020, 07:00 PM   #12
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I have mentioned in the past about the "old" days and watching Walter Cronkite giving us the "news". It WAS the news. It wasn't twisted, convoluted and destroyed with personal agendas and political direction. That kind of news doesn't exist any longer. WE, the citizens, are now charged with actually having to think, watch and understand all the ulterior motives within the news articles and particularly the wording.

I am amazed on a daily basis in my discussions with people that they are completely unable to recognize inflection, misdirection and misleading comments....they are "news" and "gospel"....really? Forget rhetoric...everytime. Look at facts and stats - not "it could", "looks like", "possibly", "so and so organization thinks" etc. - it's ridiculous and assumes none of us has a functioning brain IMO. That's all beside the point.

The current damage done to our country, and millions of our citizens....which will be life altering for them, is not warranted by the facts...in any way. It has been generated by media, folks susceptible to "fear" and the "unknown". Even the government (all levels) attribute the panic buying to public "fear"....generated by what? The media. Facts? No. As has been pointed out, various entities have decided to track Covid and nothing else...it is THE horror of our time; stats don't even come close to showing that.

I am secure. Yes, I've lost a lot of money that will recover but even my "protected" money is making money. So many others are losing their lives, including my offspring....and they were relatively well off. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, the cure cannot be worse than the disease and so far the "cure" is killing millions that the disease would never touch. We have to find a way to stop digging in this rabbit hole - use common sense as we have in the past....it's unproductive, dangerous (civil liberties) and extremely damaging.
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Old 04-26-2020, 08:05 PM   #13
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Well said sourdough & flybouy
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Old 04-26-2020, 09:27 PM   #14
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Don’t know how ya’ll are doing numbers, but the flu season is all year. CV-19 didn’t establish in the US until February. In less than two months we are at 55,000 deaths. So, pretty close to 60,000 by the end of the month. Deaths won’t end April 30th. We don’t have a vaccine or an established medical treatment. Social distancing has slowed it down but won’t stop the spread. This isn’t fake news, it’s cold hard facts. Our medical system is far and away better than it was in 1918, but in the cities it’s stretched to the limit. Rural areas have escaped the worst of it, for now, but there are areas of the country where it’s got its claws in.
Hopefully we can keep the deaths in the 1% range because it seems about half the infections are asymptotic. That still leaves the possibility of up to 3 million American deaths. This is just getting started folks. I pray that I’m wrong. A couple more months won’t kill us, but the virus could. You want to take that risk? Fine, but think about it. How comfortable are with the possibility that someone you infect might die?
Rural areas don’t have the hospital beds cities do, nor access to many of the drugs or treatments. Best case? We keep deaths to just 50,000 a month until we get a good treatment or vaccine. A vaccine may take at best a year and a half to develop and a year after that, with the best of actions, to roll out to us. Of course we’ll connected will get it first. Again, I pray I’m wrong, but this is just the beginning.
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Old 04-26-2020, 09:49 PM   #15
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Good to read the common sense posts. You don't quarantine the healthy. You quarantine the sick. Immune systems get compromised if not exposed - that's how they work. If someone gets infected, blame mother nature...not those of us with common sense. 90% of those infected recover with no lingering effects. The more testing we do, the lower the death rate - think about that statement before replying.
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Old 04-27-2020, 02:45 AM   #16
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Some good discussion. I will point out that we will likely never know how many people around the county have actually contracted the virus because many have and didn't have sufficient symptoms to warrant testing or no testing is/was available and in most cases recovered. While it is easy to pan the government, either local, state or Federal about over reach on their attempt to contain the spread through somewhat draconian measures, the spread has been slowed down a lot by these measures. While many of us haven't seen the effect, if places like NYC had isolation in place, perhaps more would have made it that perished from the bug. While healthy people who hae been exposed and may be communicable or those with little evidence of the symptoms don't appear to be greatly at risk, mixing them with elderly and/or at risk seems like a poor idea to me and must be balanced with getting our economy back on its feet. In Texas, according to the state Dept of Heath Service there have only been three deaths in the 20-29 age range but 134 in the 80 year and plus range. The mortality rate for those with very advanced age is surely higher than that for the young but how many would have survived if there had been no attempt to isolate during this season of plague? I am glad I didn't have to make these decisions. Did government over reach? Dunno but I think lives were saved and does government have the wisdom to transition safely out of all the rules set up to isolate? Probably not but who does?
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Old 04-27-2020, 03:07 AM   #17
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Good to read the common sense posts. You don't quarantine the healthy. You quarantine the sick. Immune systems get compromised if not exposed - that's how they work. If someone gets infected, blame mother nature...not those of us with common sense. 90% of those infected recover with no lingering effects. The more testing we do, the lower the death rate - think about that statement before replying.
This is absolutely true. It is Natures way.
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Old 04-27-2020, 04:07 AM   #18
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I read an article this morning which indicated that As many as 1 in 3 cause of death on death certificates is incorrect. This is due to many reasons. The article also said that Medicare pays three times as much for COVID-19 patients as it does for regular flu deaths AND five times as much or about $15K if the patient goes on a ventilator! Sure would be easy just to make all deaths COVID related.....

I won’t suggest fraud on the part of hospitals but that certainly would provide an opportunity for additional income at a time when hospitals are supposedly losing money and several rural facilities have closed.
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Old 04-27-2020, 04:18 AM   #19
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Just had a good family friend die from kidney failure. Kidney problems for last 3 years. Death cert. had Covid listed as cause of death. Autopsy test were covid negitive. Family has contacted attorney.
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Old 04-27-2020, 04:51 AM   #20
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Remember they are now talking about tracking you if you get this crap. No way would i tell the government or my doctor who I came in contact with. if I had contact with a friend I would personally contact them. It's getting scary out there. How do you feel about getting a I'm immune? Not for me. I do my part but this is getting old. I feel sorry for those that die from this but I feel sorry for those that die from many other things.
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