Unhappy with quality

[Bill Martocchio]

We recently purchased a 2020 Alpine 3651RL and have had several issues.
1- The pump for the slides and legs had to be replaced.
2- My dealer has been attempting to get a remote for my fireplace from Keystone for 6 months.
3- Had to have the AC serviced because the sensor that keeps the unit from icing up was not attached properly.
4- The gasket on one of the slam doors was not installed properly and water was getting past the gasket.
5- The latest issue is my furnace stopped working(furnace has been removed and is in the shop) for repair.

This is the 5th new unit we have purchased and I have not had this many issues with any trailer. We purchased the unit from Manns RV in Rutland MA and the have been great with making the necessary repairs. I am begining to think that purchasing a Keystone 5th wheel was a mistake.

[JRTJH]

I hate to say it this way, but every one of your "issues" is a problem with a component built by someone other than Keystone and "installed by Keystone on their trailer"...

While it "shouldn't happen" with components built by other manufacturers, you can "almost guarantee" that Jayco, Forest River, Winnebago, Artic Fox, and nearly every other RV manufacturer uses those same "by name manufacturers" to supply the identical components for their trailer....

There are some issues where Keystone does install a component incorrectly, damage a component during installation, or "lose" an accessory before delivery to the end user, it's also true that salesmen and even "lot lizards" that slam and twist every door, jump on slide floors to see if the trailer is sturdy, urinate in the toilet and yes, even rummage through cupboards and drawers to find something of value....

So, while your problems "might be a direct result of something Keystone did at the factory" there is also just as likely an issue with a defective component that was caused by the component manufacturer and/or the dealer and/or some JERK that stole the remote out of a drawer or actually damaged the trailer (intentionally or accidentally) while walking around the lot, waiting for his PDI appointment on his "new trailer" and thought it would be nice to have two fireplace remotes for his unit......

Granted, you "shouldn't have to deal with these issues" but is it really "all about "big, bad, uncaring Keystone" ?????

[chuckster57]

Sorry your having issues, but except for possibly the freeze sensor, all your problems are with components installed, not manufactured by Keystone. Component failure can and does happen in ALL brands of RV’s.

At least your dealer is taking care of them.

[gearhead]

Get the model number and serial off the fireplace and call the manufacturer for a remote. You will have to lift the face off the fireplace to find the numbers. I need to do the same thing. Our remotes have a way of hiding themselves. This is the kind of small details that will get lost in the dealer to Keystone to vendor communications.

[purebred]

I also agree with others about the component issues with Keystone rvs but our new Alpine definitely had problems that was just plain lousy workmanship by american workers. Had three electrical plug in plates that fell out of the mounting holes because they were made oversize, fixed them with oversize plates from lowes, the main slide leaked profusely because the screws along outer edge was not tapped or sealed, fixed them with tape and self leveling sealer. reattached bottom cover on trailer because half the screws were missing and holes drilled oversize, fixed them. The air duct systems on roof all had to be redone to allow for air to come through them, fixed that. And the list goes on and on. I know Keystone depends on outsourced appliances and items but their quality control also suffers. Some of the items are so blatant i don't know how the QC's missed them. As far as pre inspections are there is only so much the naked eye takes in during an inspection. I know quality suffers when you're behind the 8 ball and production is the only thing that matters. That's why when I hear buy American sometimes I just grin and bear it.

[ewbldavis]

Ah - welcome to the RV industry. Keystone isn't bad actually - they've generally had higher quality the others from what I understand.

The industry as a whole needs overhauled - but not going to happen soon.

You seem to have a good dealer - that's 75% of the battle. Hope you get everything addressed quickly and getting back on the road!

[travelin texans]

Sorry for your troubles!
I'd have to disagree with Eddy though, a good dealer is 95% of the battle. As long as they're willing to work with/for you it'll all get done eventually.
Owning a new rv for the 1st year, or til warranty runs out, is generally a hassle, afterwards you just fix it yourself & keep camping.

[sourdough]

As was mentioned, component failure is not a Keystone failure. If there is a stack of furnace units sitting in the warehouse and they are just picking one up and installing it, it is just bad luck that you got a defective one - most of the rest probably worked fine.

The gasket on the slam door can be from anything. The current trailer would not seal correctly which I found on PDI. They started to repair it right then but when I saw them attempt the job I told them to stop and I would do it - I knew I would be doing it anyway. The inner lip was all bent up keeping the weather seal from contacting the door and the latch from latching. How and when that happened I have no idea but I had to straighten it all out and realign the latch. I would FAR prefer to do that vs having them keep it and do it - and it's done the way I want it done.

As far as problems, I expect problems. I KNOW there will be problems with a new unit. How big or bad one has to determine up front and quickly. My first new trailer I thought it was just coincidence that my furnace was bad upon startup and I took it in stride. Next trailer I was a bit irritated at the list of problems. The next more irritated. As the issues grew the time in the shop grew, the more irritated/frustrated I grew until DW and I had a "meeting of the minds" on the RV thing. Was it worth it to us? Did it provide something that we wanted? The answers to all our questions was yes. Then it is a mental thing to accept the inevitable (poor quality) and minimize the impact it will have on you.

As I said, when I bought this trailer I KNEW it would have problems, just not what. I had to leave right after I got it with only the PDI before I left. I spent the first week or two going over the trailer from top to bottom while onsite in FL wondering what would be wrong yet knowing I would find something. I found several issues. That's how I found the darco torn up under the slides - 1 trip, new trailer. Loose screws? Yep. Water leaks? Yep. And the list goes on. I opt to fix the small things myself and don't fret about it because I knew and accept it will be that way. IMO that's what a person has to do to enjoy the RV to the fullest. Should it be that way? No. Do I wish there was better quality control on all RVs built? Yes. Do they care what I think? No. Are they going to change? No. So it gets back to the "meeting of the minds" DW and I had......it is what it is and we want an RV, and want to be happy about it - a mindset.

[Ken / Claudia]

A buddy bought a new motorhome that he said was close to 200,000 several years. His repair list was 2x the size of this poster. I agree those issues are not brand specific.

[ChuckS]

Sorry to see the issues you are having with your 2020 Alpine.. Looks like you have a good dealership that will get things right for you....

I also think many of the issues are from the OEM suppliers having such a backlog on products and service they are rushing a bit too much to meet demand and quality and customer suffer..

Also lately.. it seems... Keystone ...Alpine and Montana as well as their other lines is suffering a bit from trying to rush to meet demand for their products...

We’ve been very fortunate with our 2014 Alpine.. And I do all the routine yearly maintenance as well as fix what might need fixing while on the road. Mr repairs are all cosmetic so far. Did replace a few of the slide out wiper seals and resealed all 3 slide out roof to vertical wall edging with 4 inch eternabond tape over the screws...

Knock on wood but it’s been very good to us over the years...

[RoamingwiththeRamsays]

I feel your pain. Bought my Alpine in June had a couple decals starting to peel within 2 weeks. Took the first big trip to Yellowstone and the On Command hot water had a valve crack and pored water all night long. That was a great first morning in Yellowstone. There was no working Hot Water Bypass so had to go with no water the rest of the trip. Got in touch with the dealer and keystone, the part was not available. Luckily 3 weeks later the dealer pulled a brand new water heater from another new unit on the lot and placed it into mine. The dealership was a little slow but in the end they came through.

Unfortunately it's all part of RV Living.

[dutchmensport]

We have a 2019 Montana High Country 375FL fifth wheel we purchased in September 2018 and I have an ongoing list of things I've fixed in the 2 years we've owned it. It now has 83 different items on it. Some were fixed by warranty, like brakes that came apart and tore up the hub, springs, brakes and everything, slide out cable, and the Razor Antenna. But most I've fixed myself that were within my ability and availability of time, space, and the right tools.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RoamingwiththeRamsays

I feel your pain. Bought my Alpine in June had a couple decals starting to peel within 2 weeks. Took the first big trip to Yellowstone and the On Command hot water had a valve crack and pored water all night long. That was a great first morning in Yellowstone. There was no working Hot Water Bypass so had to go with no water the rest of the trip. Got in touch with the dealer and keystone, the part was not available. Luckily 3 weeks later the dealer pulled a brand new water heater from another new unit on the lot and placed it into mine. The dealership was a little slow but in the end they came through.

Unfortunately it's all part of RV Living.

To me the above is what separates a "regular" dealer from those that feel they need to take care of their customers. On our first trial trip the furnace quit working after the first night. Took it in the next day and they fixed it while I stood there....with a control board off another unit. Found a torn screen we didn't see....walked down the line to another unit like mine and came back with a new screen. IMO a good dealer knows how long it's going to take to go thru the hoops to get that warranty repaired; you are, or need to, use your RV and there's one sitting there that they're going to order warranty parts for anyway...makes sense to me vs letting my unit, which is paid for, sit out there so they can sell that new unit....but that is a dealership call.

[gearhead]

I have to disagree with some of you. Everything in those trailers Keystone owns. I don't care who made it. Keystone is 100% responsible for vetting their vendors. I can only imagine sitting across a conference table looking at a production manager who just lost a few million dollars of production because a rotating equipment failure that I just had overhauled failed. "uh well heck it's not my fault, Joes compressor shop did it, not me" Uh well start looking for a job.
You can't imagine the efforts I have gone through vetting vendors.
You gotta step up and accept 100% responsibility. Obviously Keystone don't.
Those components can be repaired at any authorized service shop. Call around.

[Roscommon48]

it's all about rving........

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by gearhead

I have to disagree with some of you. Everything in those trailers Keystone owns. I don't care who made it. Keystone is 100% responsible for vetting their vendors. I can only imagine sitting across a conference table looking at a production manager who just lost a few million dollars of production because a rotating equipment failure that I just had overhauled failed. "uh well heck it's not my fault, Joes compressor shop did it, not me" Uh well start looking for a job.
You can't imagine the efforts I have gone through vetting vendors.
You gotta step up and accept 100% responsibility. Obviously Keystone don't.
Those components can be repaired at any authorized service shop. Call around.

I agree 100% that it is their responsibility and the buck stops at their door....but;

If a, b, c, d, e and f RV manufacturers are all using xyz appliances because they are the cheapest and everyone is still buying the units as fast as they can build them Keystone is not going to look for the best, most reliable xyz out there because they would price themselves out of the market.

The stakes in your environment, and mine, including the consequences for failure, were too high. I don't believe that situation exists at any level in the RV world unfortunately.

[chuckster57]

Well said. As a tech that has seen thousands of units from hundreds of manufacturers, including $10,000 trailers to $450,000.00 motorhomes, I will stand by my original post.

Is it Tiffens fault, or Jayco’s fault that a Suburban water heater fails? Or a Norcold refer? The factories don’t TEST the appliances they install, and yes it seems like I am seeing an uptick in component failures.

As said earlier, it’s up to the manufacturer to make it right during the warranty period, but it’s also the DEALERSHIP’s responsibility to be the consumers advocate during this time. I can tell you that how a claim is handled, or worded can greatly influence the factories decision. It has become increasingly difficult to get ANY manufacturer to pay claims. Spend a month in my shoes and you’ll understand why lots of dealerships don’t do warranty work. It doesn’t pay very well and the time allotted for repair is based on what a worker at the factory takes to install the item.

We are allowed 1/2 hr to diagnose the issue, sometimes it takes that long to get to the component in question. Then there’s refers and the required worksheet by both Dometic and Norcold before they will even talk to you.

My hats off the the OP’s dealership for stepping up, they will surely LOSE money fixing his trailer, but IMO will gain in the long run with referrals. That’s the type of dealership I work at and why I left a couple.

[notanlines]

What Chuckster^^^^said. It took me 30 minutes yesterday to just FIND the water pump on this Salem so i could install the winterizing kit.
Want me to tell y’all about my failing to release the pressure In the water heater before the new element went in? The language was horrible,and the dried calcium deposits are from one end of this campsite to the other. Do most people NEVER change their anode rod? There was simply nothing left. But now we have hot water in the Salem.

[foldbak]

Originally Posted by Bill Martocchio

We recently purchased a 2020 Alpine 3651RL and have had several issues.
1- The pump for the slides and legs had to be replaced.
2- My dealer has been attempting to get a remote for my fireplace from Keystone for 6 months.
3- Had to have the AC serviced because the sensor that keeps the unit from icing up was not attached properly.
4- The gasket on one of the slam doors was not installed properly and water was getting past the gasket.
5- The latest issue is my furnace stopped working(furnace has been removed and is in the shop) for repair.

This is the 5th new unit we have purchased and I have not had this many issues with any trailer. We purchased the unit from Manns RV in Rutland MA and the have been great with making the necessary repairs. I am begining to think that purchasing a Keystone 5th wheel was a mistake.

That's it? You're lucky! I had a new roof and every window replaced on mine. Sounds to me like quality control is getting better or yours was built on a Wednesday

[ewbldavis]

Originally Posted by foldbak

That's it? You're lucky! I had a new roof and every window replaced on mine. Sounds to me like quality control is getting better or yours was built on a Wednesday

ha - no doubt. Appliance failure aside, quality of a Friday unit might be sub-par...though with paid-by-count manufacturing, not by much!