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Old 01-02-2021, 02:55 PM   #1
Carlene
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23 foot full time travel and living

I will be traveling and living in my 23 ft cougar fifth wheel. Have been reading some concerning reviews. Need suggestions re how to be sure it's road worthy and ready to go. Thx.
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Old 01-02-2021, 03:02 PM   #2
Ken / Claudia
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Is it new or used? If used did you have an expert check it out and give an opinion? Model number of unit might help. Do you have manuals for all the stuff Keystone put in it? Is this your 1st RV?
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Old 01-02-2021, 03:03 PM   #3
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I lived in a similar 2012 Sunnybrook bumper pull for quite awhile while undergoing med treatments. Each camper of that length will have ergonomic issues; mine was lack of counter space, the pantry was miserably inaccessible and the couch was uncomfortable. I figured these things out. We have a 28' camper now and run into the same type issues which could be solved by owning a 38' camper but you learn to work around them. Cougar is a fine product line and I have heard few negative comments; we have a 2002 and it is SOLID.
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Old 01-02-2021, 04:03 PM   #4
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We are kinda looking at 5th wheels.
I want a 1/2 ton that I'll haul with a 3/4 ton truck.
I like the size and weight of the 23 ft cougar fifth wheel but the deal breaker I see is I don't think the bathroom is accessible with the slide out in.
Having to open the slide out in crowded truck stops could become a major pain.
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Old 01-02-2021, 04:28 PM   #5
sourdough
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linux3 View Post
We are kinda looking at 5th wheels.
I want a 1/2 ton that I'll haul with a 3/4 ton truck.
I like the size and weight of the 23 ft cougar fifth wheel but the deal breaker I see is I don't think the bathroom is accessible with the slide out in.
Having to open the slide out in crowded truck stops could become a major pain.

Rob check those weights. A 23' 5th wheel will have a gvw in the 10k range; 2k pin minimum. Very few 1/2 tons are up for that and none safely IMO.
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Old 01-02-2021, 05:04 PM   #6
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My ‘12 Copper Canyon is 30’11”” overall. GVWR is 10240 and pin was listed at 1245.
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Old 01-03-2021, 05:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlene View Post
I will be traveling and living in my 23 ft cougar fifth wheel. Have been reading some concerning reviews. Need suggestions re how to be sure it's road worthy and ready to go. Thx.
Welcome to the forum.
If you post more info about you and your Cougar, you will get more info back.
I would start at the bottom and work up. How old are the tires? How long has it been since the the bearings and brakes have been inspected? Has the roof been inspected lately? Is your truck a good match and has it been inspected lately?
How mechanically inclined are you? Are you prepared to do some repairs roadside? Will you be traveling and living in cold temps?
Tell us more...
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:25 AM   #8
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[QUOTE=sourdough;428104]Rob check those weights. A 23' 5th wheel will have a gvw in the 10k range; 2k pin minimum. Very few 1/2 tons are up for that and none safely IMO.[/QUOT

Originally Posted by linux3
We are kinda looking at 5th wheels.
I want a 1/2 ton that I'll haul with a 3/4 ton truck.
I like the size and weight of the 23 ft cougar fifth wheel but the deal breaker I see is I don't think the bathroom is accessible with the slide out in.
Having to open the slide out in crowded truck stops could become a major pain.
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:56 AM   #9
CedarCreekWoody
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Linux3 is not the OP. Read post 1.
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Old 01-03-2021, 08:13 AM   #10
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[QUOTE=BrooksFam;428145]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Rob check those weights. A 23' 5th wheel will have a gvw in the 10k range; 2k pin minimum. Very few 1/2 tons are up for that and none safely IMO.[/QUOT

Originally Posted by linux3
We are kinda looking at 5th wheels.
I want a 1/2 ton that I'll haul with a 3/4 ton truck.
I like the size and weight of the 23 ft cougar fifth wheel but the deal breaker I see is I don't think the bathroom is accessible with the slide out in.
Having to open the slide out in crowded truck stops could become a major pain.
When you start looking at Keystone Cougar Half Ton Fifth Wheel Trailers and plan to tow with a 3/4 ton truck the "logical assumption" is that you'll be "well positioned with a much larger truck than required"......

NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH !!!!!

Depending on the specific truck, some diesel 3/4 ton trucks built within the past 5-10 years have less than 2000 pound payload capacity. And, to add insult to injury, some "half ton trailers" have empty pin weights in the 1900 pound range. Add cargo to the trailer and those "half ton trailers" can easily have pin weights in the 2700-3000 pound range.....

So, look, not at "generalizations" such as "half ton trailer" and "3/4 ton truck" to determine your family's safety margin.....

I've got a Cougar XLite 27RKS (similar weigh range as the half ton series) and tow with a 2015 3/4 ton diesel. My pin weight "approaches my payload" every time we hitch the truck. There are, the last time I counted, 11 Cougar Half Ton and other Keystone brand "ultra-light" trailers with pin weights heavier than my model.

So, my advice would be: Don't generalize with "catchy brochure quips"... Do the "REAL WORLD SCIENCE" of actually weighing the truck, adding in the hitch weight, and calculating an "estimated pin weight" of 20-25% of the trailer GVW. Only then will you be "reasonably close" with your estimates....

Bottom line: Those brochure pin weights are nothing more than FANTASY.... Do not believe any of them to fit "your truck capacity" and don't assume that a 3/4 ton truck is always going to be safe with a 1/2 ton trailer.........
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Old 01-03-2021, 09:09 AM   #11
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Keystone Cougar is a very popular camper that's traditionally been priced at an affordable amount. Traditionally, they are not "high end" campers, but they are well built as folks keep them for years and years. As with ANY new RV, NEW campers will have their round of issues and problems, and .... really ... takes about a year of use to flush out all the issues. Things aren't obvious, and things don't break when sitting at the dealer's lot and when you do your initial walk-through. It's only after they've been bounced down the road a few thousand miles that things start showing up.

With that said, after about a year, all that settles down and the many repairs and rebuilds and fixes and customization will be done in that first year of the campers life. After that, they turn out to be really good campers, provided the owner is meticulous with repairs immediately when something happens so small problems don't develop into larger problems.

If you are looking at a used unit, then INITIALLY you'll have the same unknowns as if purchasing a brand new one. You have no idea what the previous owner REALLY did to the camper or how well it's been maintained until you actually start using it yourself. And yes, people lie! That's a harsh reality.

So, if purchasing used, you really need to do your own self-inspection, educate yourself on everything RV possible. And definitely spend time actually visiting dealerships, looking a new and used so you can have something to compare with and against the unit you are actually considering purchasing. Spend time on these and other like minded forums and study out all the different issues current and past owners of RVs deal with. Here again, when you go and look at the unit you are considering to purchase, you'll be better informed and have a better idea of what to look for and if something is broken, can you live with it, or afford the time and money to fix it.

Just because a used camper is nice and clean inside and out does not mean there could be a leaky roof, bad tires, brakes that are inadequate or worn out, dead mice in the walls that will stink when it get's hot, sewer valves that don't work, poop pyramids in the black water tank, windows that don't seal tight and let in air and rain water, weak or bad battery, or any number of things that go way, way beyond a nice and clean looking camper that appears to be in "great shape". Don't let the apparent eye appeal fool you. Like I said, if buying used, previous owners will and do lie and will tell you just about anything to get rid of their problem and now their problem is your problem and you actually paid money to inherit it.

If you do your homework, do your own self-study, educate yourself, and do lots of comparisons with other campers, you'll be able to spot the problem-child campers and RUN! Once you find THE one that strikes your heart, examine it thoroughly, ask lots of question (either dealer or previous owner) and any hint of non-disclosers .... run! There will always be another camper somewhere.
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:03 AM   #12
linux3
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[QUOTE=JRTJH;428155]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooksFam View Post

When you start looking at Keystone Cougar Half Ton Fifth Wheel Trailers and plan to tow with a 3/4 ton truck the "logical assumption" is that you'll be "well positioned with a much larger truck than required"......

NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH !!!!!
.
A 5th wheel with a GVW of around 10k is not hard to find. 23% pin weight is 2300 lbs
A Silverado 2500 HD with the 6.6L gasser has a payload capacity in the 3680 to 3900 lbs range. Real world stickers on trucks I test drove.

I think I'm good.
I do kinda think if I buy a 5'er I'm not telling anyone here! LOL
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:26 AM   #13
sourdough
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[QUOTE=linux3;428184]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post

A 5th wheel with a GVW of around 10k is not hard to find. 23% pin weight is 2300 lbs
A Silverado 2500 HD with the 6.6L gasser has a payload capacity in the 3680 to 3900 lbs range. Real world stickers on trucks I test drove.

I think I'm good.
I do kinda think if I buy a 5'er I'm not telling anyone here! LOL

I wouldn't think there is any reason for not telling anyone here. You know that if the numbers work it's all well and good. I will say that I've not seen a 3/4 ton with payload numbers like you posted but then again I don't look at GM products particularly and not the new ones with the "inflated" numbers (from what I can tell) from years past. If the numbers work I would think you are good to go.
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Old 01-03-2021, 11:16 AM   #14
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I believe the OP was referring to a Cougar 1/2 Ton 23MLS which is actually closer to 27' and with the slide in, the steps up to the commode were not accessible. For us, not getting to the upper part of the camper with the slide in isn't much of an issue but may be for others. Looks like a decent floor plan for the size of the trailer. The television up high above the dinette would not be popular with my wife and I and the pantry is far away from the kitchen counter top. I also recall potential issues with the refrigerator in the slide out.
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Old 01-03-2021, 12:57 PM   #15
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I believe the OP was referring to a Cougar 1/2 Ton 23MLS which is actually closer to 27' and with the slide in, the steps up to the commode were not accessible. .
I do like the floor plan of the Cougar 23MLS but as I said I need bathroom access.
Actually, I don't but my bride of 41 years does.
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Old 01-03-2021, 12:59 PM   #16
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What about the Cougar 25RES?
Not all that much heavier and the door is in front of the slide out?
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:14 PM   #17
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Looks nice. If you're handy you could add shelves to the storage behind TV. Easy access to the washroom and bedroom like mine. Looks like it has a 2nd A/C prep plate beside the vent should you want to upgrade. Has all the creature comforts.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
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I will be traveling and living in my 23 ft cougar fifth wheel. Have been reading some concerning reviews. Need suggestions re how to be sure it's road worthy and ready to go. Thx.
A cougar is similar to a chevy while a Montana is similar to a Cadillac. That being said I know of full time RVers travelling 6 months a year for over 10 years now. keep in mind he has to be a very accomplished DIY guy and carry lot's of tools.
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Old 01-07-2021, 11:46 AM   #19
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Not to name the OP is this group, this a broad statement about being a DIY person. I cannot beleive how many take up RVing without having the basic DIY tools and know how. An RV is a real DIY project unless you: 1 do not care to have stuff fixed or working. 2 have plenty of money to pay someone else to fix it.
When we stayed in the RV for 27 nights in a row before current house was ready. I fixed or checked stuff daily. About half of those nights we were in a top class park. With about 300 spaces, almost daily there is 1 or more mobile RV repair vans in the park. Some I understood fully since the RV and or truck did not have license plates yet. These were the shake down trip in the brand new RV.
I asked about that to a park maintenance guy and said some people do not know or want to learn how to turn a screw much less fix a drippy water connection.
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Old 01-07-2021, 11:58 AM   #20
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Speaking of DIY projects, to "highlight a similar experience" that I had last year, we stopped at a KOA just of I-70 in the Colorado mountains for a couple of days. As we were setting up the trailer, I noticed that the hose to the trailer in the next site was dripping water and the ground around it (that I had to step in to connect my hose) was about 3" deep in "goopy mud" from the dripping hose.

I mentioned it to the owner of that trailer, who was sitting under his awning, watching me navigate the mud by taking off my shoes so I didn't ruin them. His comment: "Yeah, that mud's a mess, I reported it, but maintenance hasn't got around to fixing that yet."... After getting my hose connected, I tracked mud back to my trailer, got a hose washer, went back to the connection, disconnected HIS hose, replaced the washer and stopped the leak....

He wasn't really appreciative of my "help" and just said, "Thanks, I guess I need to let maintenance know it's not leaking.".....

So, DIY is a "mindset as much as a necessary evil" for RV owners.... It goes beyond the trailer walls and can affect not only YOUR RV, but also those who share the campground.....
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