How capable is your 1/2 ton?

[busterbrown]

I came across this Canadian online publication that I thought was a good read. The author shines light on many of the "what tow vehicle should I buy" concerns that are discussed/debated on here and many other RV/truck forums. I don't promote or discount anything in the read. I will say that it emphasis's how far 1/2 ton's have come in the last 50 years, and if set up correctly, can be very capable and safe tow vehicles.

https://rvlifemag.com/towing-half-to...e-quarter-ton/

[Desert185]

A lot of fallacies in that article.

[notanlines]

Remember, this is from the same people who put Buick Enclave in the top ten tow vehicles of 2017. And also said "Three-quarter ton pickups generally have 6,000 – 7,000-pound capacity rear axles, so they can carry the 3,500 pounds of pin weight that these large fifth wheel trailers have." It would serve one well to read what this writer says very, very closely.

[Ken / Claudia]

All trucks have come along ways from 50 years ago. I still say every truck has it's limitations. 1/2 ton less than 3/4, 3/4 less than 1t etc.
What I do not like about the photos of the two vehicles making a turn while towing what appears to be the same trailer. We need details to compare, they do not have any. Details I mention are but, not limited to, same tires on both trucks, same PSI in tires, same hitch, exact same speed,. same wheelbase and the same driver. Just the speed in which a driver spins or turns the steering wheel will change the handling of any vehicle in a turn.
Beleive it or not. I went from a work truck, 2003 chev, 4x4 long bed 5.4? engine. mileage when turned in at about 95,000. 2nd set of front brakes, rear were replaced at 90,000. Boat had trailer brakes. Stopping was noted to be longer. Pulled a work boat (4800lbs), same boat with another truck.
Next work truck 2008, f250 4x4 short bed, v10 engine. Night and Day differences regarding towing the same boat. I retired with 40,000 on that truck, 2nd set of tires, tire guy said brakes almost like new. No noted stopping distance change with or without boat.
Now my vehicles and boat. F350 or 2002 trail blazer rated at 5,000 lb trailer. Yeah the TB pulls it, the F350 pulls it, faster up any grade, faster on the on ramps, easier backing, easier to see when backing, Stopping TB is longer to stop, F350 not. Both get around 12 mpg while towing 55-60. Until you pull a RV with a HD truck you will never know how difference they tow.

[sourdough]

Don't agree with much this writer says - sounds like he's hawking 1/2 tons, bigger tires and stiffer shocks. None do anything to increase any of the critical numbers. Most annoyingly, his statement; "Numbers matter to a certain degree, but not one spec at the expense of many other more important factors." The numbers matter to a "certain degree"? What degree is that? Some, a little, none? One spec can't matter at the expense of many other more important factors? Which spec? More important factors? Which are those?

Having driven a very capable 1/2 ton that was only 200 lbs over payload I can assure anyone that moving to a 3/4 ton drastically improved the handling and towing experience.

As for his thought that exceeding gvw, payload etc. is OK, all I do is refer to my owners manual, state laws etc. They all use words like "cannot", "must not", "do not" when referencing the possibility of exceeding ANY of those categories. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

I will agree that 1/2 ton trucks are light years improved compared to those from decades ago.....and I like them. That said, it does not make them a vehicle to tow big, heavy stuff - they are just a very versatile vehicle for most anything including towing up to 7k or so IMO. I guess to each his own and that probably explains some of the towing setups I've seen here in our little resort area over the July 4th week.

[JRTJH]

The writer of that article (according to the bio) is the owner of an RV sales facility in Canada. That means he's a salesman.... BUT, I'll give him the benefit of doubt on that. Where he loses my "respect for his expertise and judgment" is when he states: " So even though the truck was 640 pounds over its GVWR nothing was overloaded, and the truck was stable with plenty of leeway on any item that matters." If I'm reading the article correctly (and I know I am), what he's saying is to forget what the truck manufacturer states in the owner's manual, he knows better and what matters is what he thinks, not what the manufacturer engineered into the truck and documented in the owner's manual.

I say, "HOGWASH".... It's people like him who sell large fifth wheels to 3/4 ton truck owners and tell them "It's really the same truck as a one ton".... We've been through this so many times on the forum... Now we've got "evidence" to point to where all those rumors started. No, I won't blame Canada, just Mr. Thomson, who apparently hasn't learned much in his 25 years of selling RV's.

[Harleydodge]

[ctbruce]

Just for shucks and grins, someone should follow his advice, get in an accident, get hurt and then sue him for his statements. Then we could really see how firmly he stands behind his statements. The proof is always in the pudding, which when you think of it is a really dumb saying. Maybe instead, let him put his money where his mouth is? And please, don't take my suggestion and get hurt. If you do, you are on your own.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[xcntrk]

You just can't win. When I tow with my 1-ton F350, it's just barely enough truck for the job. When I drive it around empty, it's way overkill for basic daily driver duties. You simply can't have your cake and eat it too. People who buy a half-ton and think otherwise are in for a life lesson and an "I told you so"...

[bsmith0404]

I can't even finish reading the article. The guy knows nothing about trucks! I had to stop when I got to the part about the diesels being geared wrong just so they can tow in 6th gear. When he states that they are turning all those extra RPNs for so many solo miles. If he ever actually drove one before writing this article he would know that the diesels are not turning high RPMs when running solo and the only reason they can continue to run in 6th gear when towing is the boost put out by the turbo that generate enough power to maintain speed without having to downshift and increase RPMs. I've lost a lot of respect for RV Lifestyle for even publishing anything this guy writes.

[jmak]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I can't even finish reading the article. The guy knows nothing about trucks! I had to stop when I got to the part about the diesels being geared wrong just so they can tow in 6th gear. When he states that they are turning all those extra RPNs for so many solo miles. If he ever actually drove one before writing this article he would know that the diesels are not turning high RPMs when running solo and the only reason they can continue to run in 6th gear when towing is the boost put out by the turbo that generate enough power to maintain speed without having to downshift and increase RPMs. I've lost a lot of respect for RV Lifestyle for even publishing anything this guy writes.

You are correct. Turbo motors either gas or diesel are in high torque numbers at very low RPM vs a non turbo motor. Heck it why the ecoboost is such as great towing motor in the 1/2 ton with 90% torque at 1700rpm. I am surprised that they have not put in the F250 as a base motor or even low cost engine upgrade. I went from an F150 ecoboost to a Ram 2500 6.4. Having a 3/4 ton truck is night and day more stable however I will admit that little 3.5 twin turbo did much better power wise with much less of a need to downshift.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jmak

You are correct. Turbo motors either gas or diesel are in high torque numbers at very low RPM vs a non turbo motor. Heck it why the ecoboost is such as great towing motor in the 1/2 ton with 90% torque at 1700rpm. I am surprised that they have not put in the F250 as a base motor or even low cost engine upgrade. I went from an F150 ecoboost to a Ram 2500 6.4. Having a 3/4 ton truck is night and day more stable however I will admit that little 3.5 twin turbo did much better power wise with much less of a need to downshift.

This is just my "best guess" as to why Ford hasn't offered the 3.5 EcoBoost in the SuperDuty line. I'm guessing that since vehicles heavier than 8500 pound GVW are exempt from the same emissions standards as lighter vehicles and the costs of tooling the heavier trucks to adapt that engine to the current fleet is (or would be) greater than the amount of profit that Ford could generate from the projected sales of that power option (over the existing power options) does not put the expense into the "profit objective" that Ford needs to gain from the expense of offering the product.

In other words, Ford doesn't think that they can make enough money from it to offset the cost to build it. Now that Ford is using the same fenders, cab components and some bed components on both the F150 and SuperDuty trucks, they may be closer to using the same engines (like they did with the 5.4L as an optional V8 in the F150 and as "base power" in the SuperDuty in previous years.

[jmak]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

This is just my "best guess" as to why Ford hasn't offered the 3.5 EcoBoost in the SuperDuty line. I'm guessing that since vehicles heavier than 8500 pound GVW are exempt from the same emissions standards as lighter vehicles and the costs of tooling the heavier trucks to adapt that engine to the current fleet is (or would be) greater than the amount of profit that Ford could generate from the projected sales of that power option (over the existing power options) does not put the expense into the "profit objective" that Ford needs to gain from the expense of offering the product.

In other words, Ford doesn't think that they can make enough money from it to offset the cost to build it. Now that Ford is using the same fenders, cab components and some bed components on both the F150 and SuperDuty trucks, they may be closer to using the same engines (like they did with the 5.4L as an optional V8 in the F150 and as "base power" in the SuperDuty in previous years.

That would make sense. Just too bad as people like me that are towing less than 10,000 lbs that don't need or want to pay the 9-10k upgrade to the full diesel but would pay a few grand for a turbo gas motor.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jmak

That would make sense. Just too bad as people like me that are towing less than 10,000 lbs that don't need or want to pay the 9-10k upgrade to the full diesel but would pay a few grand for a turbo gas motor.

In 2018 that is "supposed to change" when Ford comes out with a diesel option in the F150 line. Nobody knows pricing yet, but my guess is that it'll be about the same cost as an upgrade to a SuperDuty gas truck. In other words, buy a F150 Lariat with a diesel and it will be "close to" the cost of a SuperDuty Lairat with the 6.2L gas engine. At least that's what I'm hearing people "hope will happen"... Of course with VW Fiat and now GM all facing lawsuits over allegations of cheating on "diesel emissions standards" who knows what's going to happen with the new offerings from any company.

[CWSWine]

I was told they don't put the 3.5 Ecco Boost in HD trucks because of duty cycle. He said they have contractors that will put 250,000 miles towing an equipment trailer close or over max payload/towing capacity and almost zero miles not towing something. The Ecco Boost just can not take that kind of duty cycle day after day and year after year.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

I was told they don't put the 3.5 Ecco Boost in HD trucks because of duty cycle. He said they have contractors that will we put 250,000 miles towing an equipment trailer close or over max payload/towing capacity and almost zero miles not towing something. The Ecco Boost just can not take that kind of duty cycle day after day and year after year.

For towing, there is just no substitute for a turbocharged diesel.

[busterbrown]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

I was told they don't put the 3.5 Ecco Boost in HD trucks because of duty cycle. He said they have contractors that will we put 250,000 miles towing an equipment trailer close or over max payload/towing capacity and almost zero miles not towing something. The Ecco Boost just can not take that kind of duty cycle day after day and year after year.

Probably the same reason GM has continued its iron block 6.0 gasser in the HD lineup as opposed to moving toward the higher output Ecotec3.

[Kemp716]

Originally Posted by jmak

You are correct. Turbo motors either gas or diesel are in high torque numbers at very low RPM vs a non turbo motor. Heck it why the ecoboost is such as great towing motor in the 1/2 ton with 90% torque at 1700rpm. I am surprised that they have not put in the F250 as a base motor or even low cost engine upgrade. I went from an F150 ecoboost to a Ram 2500 6.4. Having a 3/4 ton truck is night and day more stable however I will admit that little 3.5 twin turbo did much better power wise with much less of a need to downshift.

I did the same. I loved my ecoboost,, it had plenty of power but truck was to close to it's max payload capacity. I see more and more of them towing large trailers, and every time I wonder how close to or over capacity they are.