2017 Ram 3500 HP/Torque ratings

[sourdough]

I guess I'll just throw this out to see if anyone has any idea.

I'm looking at getting a new 1 ton diesel and a Ram 3500 is one of the options. When I try to pull one up at a dealer, or spec it, I keep getting some trucks with the 6.7 that show 350hp/660 torque or 370hp/800 torque. I called the sales guy and he had no idea why. I sent an email to Ram but they haven't responded. I'm not going to spend 9k to get 660 torque from a Ram so that will be a show stopper right off the bat. I asked the sales guy if trim levels had anything to do with it but he pulled two Laramies up the power ratings for each was different.

Any ideas? I've also submitted the question to the Cummins Diesel forum so I'm hoping I can figure it out.....since the dealership apparently has no idea

[chuckster57]

Seems like when I worked on a Ram truck, there was a "regular" engine and a "high output" engine. That was a couple of years ago, so it's just a WAG on my part.

[kfxgreenie]

350hp/660 torque = G56 6 Speed Manual Trans
370hp/800 torque = 68RFE 6 Speed Auto Trans
385hp/900 torque = AS69RC Aisin 6 Speed HD Auto Trans

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by kfxgreenie

350hp/660 torque = G56 6 Speed Manual Trans
370hp/800 torque = 68RFE 6 Speed Auto Trans
385hp/900 torque = AS69RC Aisin 6 Speed HD Auto Trans

Wow! That's what I thought it might be and asked the salesman that exact question. Also, in the ones I was trying to spec I always used an auto but the hp/torque specs changed. Is there a link or something that says that? At least I would have some idea what I was dealing with. Thanks!!

[PARAPTOR]

Here is a link that may help looks like different trans

http://www.cumminshub.com/67.html

Good reading Calling it a night

[kfxgreenie]

http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/performance/#heavy_duty

[JRTJH]

What Kfxgreenie said... Gearhead just went through this "dance" when he bought his RAM. The engine is derated to "protect' the clutch in the manual transmission (the only pickup that still has a manual transmission), it's is also derated (but not as much) for the "standard automatic" and is only "fully rated" for the Aisin transmission.

[kfxgreenie]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

What Kfxgreenie said... Gearhead just went through this "dance" when he bought his RAM. The engine is derated to "protect' the clutch in the manual transmission (the only pickup that still has a manual transmission), it's is also derated (but not as much) for the "standard automatic" and is only "fully rated" for the Aisin transmission.

And further more you won't really ever feel this massive power that much. It is only applied when the torque converter is locked and the trans is in 4th gear I believe. Pulling uphill heavy is when she will prevail and that is where the six in a row performs the best.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

What Kfxgreenie said... Gearhead just went through this "dance" when he bought his RAM. The engine is derated to "protect' the clutch in the manual transmission (the only pickup that still has a manual transmission), it's is also derated (but not as much) for the "standard automatic" and is only "fully rated" for the Aisin transmission.

I don't know why Ram doesn't offer or make standard a double disk clutch for the Cummins/G56?
I put one in my 2001, after I added a small chip, the DD has no holding issues, when pulling our 11,400#+/- 5er. It is smooth and not a real heavy pedal.

[bsmith0404]

Everyone already answered the reasons for the ratings. I will say that all of the HP and torque numbers on the new trucks are more than you will ever need for pulling an RV. Just about every transporter I know with a Dodge runs a manual transmission because they don't want the automatic that has been known to have problems. When the clutch goes out, they upgrade to a better clutch. The lower powered engine is probably more reliable as well. They don't want to spend the money on the Aisin trans in a truck that they put on 100k or more miles per year. IMO, if you want a Dodge, you have 2 choices, de-rated manual or full bore Aisin. Either one will pull your RV down the road without issues.

[Javi]

If I was gonna buy them goofy mirrors... it would be with an Aisin transmission... and the de-rated engine is plenty...

[hdxbonez]

I had a 2007 with 650 torque before the current 2013 with 800 torque. The newer trucks have torque management programming to prevent you from ripping the differential out at stop sign, so you can't feel any differences most of the time. I have the 68RFE tranny, it shifts smooth all the time, up or down. The guys that have the Aisin don't always say the same thing. The Aisin with 900 torque shines if you tow REALLY heavy ALL of the time, but its an extra couple of grand for something you'll never use unless you're tugging 20,000 pounds behind you...

[Barbell]

We pull with a 2016 version (3500 w/Aisin) because we tend to keep our vehicles a long time. This will probably be our last one. When I first drove the truck with the Aisin, I thought it was pretty sloppy shifting, but now with around 25,000 miles on it, don't notice it at all. This is by far the best truck we have ever had and that goes back quite a few years. In AZ, we can weigh up to 26,001 lbs without special truck or driver's license and we are just under that weight. I very rarely ever lock out overdrive (6th gear) because it just doesn't shift enough to heat up the transmission. I have not heard of any problems with the Aisin but we have a lifetime power train warranty anyway, just in case. 3.73 rear end and fuel mileage is not great; 16-18 empty and 12-13 pulling. Our old 5.9 did better but didn't have near the power. Don't believe the '17s are changed much if any; IMHO, can't go wrong with this truck.

[kfxgreenie]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Everyone already answered the reasons for the ratings. I will say that all of the HP and torque numbers on the new trucks are more than you will ever need for pulling an RV. Just about every transporter I know with a Dodge runs a manual transmission because they don't want the automatic that has been known to have problems. When the clutch goes out, they upgrade to a better clutch. The lower powered engine is probably more reliable as well. They don't want to spend the money on the Aisin trans in a truck that they put on 100k or more miles per year. IMO, if you want a Dodge, you have 2 choices, de-rated manual or full bore Aisin. Either one will pull your RV down the road without issues.

Here's a Ram transporter that has a 2500 and a 68RFE hauls 14k+ rigs from Indian to Texas. Well over 200k on the Ram and A: he hasn't had the 68RFE drop out of his truck, and B: he hasn't been parked by the DOT for hauling over his payload even though he obviously goes through scales with posted DOT #. Oh yeah he had a F250 before the ram so over 500K miles and a lot running over payload and never parked for being over payload.

http://s474.photobucket.com/user/Ltn...20run.jpg.html

68RFE's are not that problematic until the power is added to them. Then like anything baboom.

[larry337]

It's crazy how salespeople can be so ignorant about their own product. I'm a Ford guy but I could've answered that question for you. It seems I always know more about the truck I'm wanting to buy than the salesperson trying to sell it. Anyway, as other's have posted HP and torque ratings are for bragging rights. Truth is any late model diesel with more than 600 lbs/ft of torque will pull your RV with ease and put a smile on your face. Dont focus on power and just buy the one that suits you best. They all 3 will do a great job. However Ford will do it best.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I don't know why Ram doesn't offer or make standard a double disk clutch for the Cummins/G56?
I put one in my 2001, after I added a small chip, the DD has no holding issues, when pulling our 11,400#+/- 5er. It is smooth and not a real heavy pedal.

When my 600-650# torque, 24v Cummins with NV5600 6-speed begins to slip the clutch, I'm going with a South Bend clutch. They have clutches for any available HP/torque rating. Hydraulic clutch, so no heavy pedal.

[chuckster57]

I put a south bend in a Ram a few years ago. Guy pulled 24 60' telephone poles over the sierras. One tough clutch for sure. Did it more than once before health reasons made him retire.

[sourdough]

Thanks for all the responses, it is appreciated.

I thought it was the tranny as well but the confusion came when I was pulling up trucks, 2 Laramie models for example, both autos but one was rated at the manual HP/torque and the other was at 800 torque. Of course the salesman then said he had never heard of that and would check.....haven't heard back. Now, think of this though speaking of salesmen; when I was discussing why the one was rated at 660 lb. he was looking at the specs and said "hmmm, 660 lbs at 1800 rpm.....well, you know those things will scream. The rpm is just going to keep going up and so will the power"....?? He then looked at the one that put out 800 lb. at 1800 rpm as well (I think) and so I said "Man! 800 lbs. at 1800 rpm and those rpms will just keep climbing! Reckon it would make 1000 lbs at 4500 rpm??" He said "You know, it might....I bet it would!!) I was being facetious obviously and please don't think I don't understand engines, HP, torque, torque curves, rpm etc. because I've built, rebuilt, modified engines and vehicles for years....just have no experience with a diesel. He's also the guy that read the specs on one and said "it shows it has the optional 3.42 rear end but I thing the front is a 4.10...that will help pull a lot". Ok, enough of that.....yes, he had no clue.

I know all of the big 3 have great trucks and I'm not stuck on Dodge (although my last several have been Dodge/Ram) - I'm getting close to trying to make a decision on one (can't have a goofup on truck #3 or DW will probably.....well, you get the picture ) and you have to love those mirrors. I'm not really hung up on the power as long as it gets the job done but I have a hard time swallowing a 9k increase in price and just getting the 660 torque while the same premium will get the 800 lb.

Anyway, thanks for all the input. After driving the Ram I was extremely impressed with the diesel. It is nothing like the ones I used to drive years ago. Most impressive was the power it had (I didn't get to pull anything) at highway speeds and the acceleration without jumping up to 4000 + rpm. I've always hotrodded engines (gas-cars/bikes) and I associate ripping it up with "screaming/roaring" - high rpm....not so with the drive I made.


The search will continue, I suppose far and wide, because the 3500 Ram is proving hard to find around here. I then have to repeat the process for the other brands (or more likely run the searches concurrently). Thanks.

[ctbruce]

Where the inspiration for the Dodge mirrors came from:

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by ctbruce

Where the inspiration for the Dodge mirrors came from:

And they did a heck of a job imitating it!!!