Tow Vehicle Shopping Time

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by weebl

And this here, is exactly my line of thinking on the trucks. I know that, from a physical perspective, you can modify a 3/4 ton to be mechanically the same as a 1 ton, and this is with suspension upgrades.

BUT, and a very important but at that, is you CANNOT change the legal limitations, at least not in any practical way. The sticker is the sticker, and I understand insurers, lawyers, and the courts will all see this.

That said, being close, but within, the legal limits of a 3/4 ton, it would stand to reason that you physically have a lot of breathing room, especially if you do the required upgrades. And so long as I am within the legal limitations, I am not at risk from that perspective.

Am I missing anything else, should I be forced into a 3/4 ton due to what's available in the market for this particular trailer, that I need to be aware of?

In the preface of the Ford Owner's Manual it states that "NOTES" provide information about operation, "CAUTIONS" provide information that could cause equipment damage and "WARNINGS" provide information that could cause personal injury or death. Each is more serious than the previous, notes (least serious), cautions, warnings (most serious).

The Ford owner's manual stipulates in a WARNING, "Do not exceed the GVWR or the GAWR specified on the Safety Compliance Certification Label." and goes on to say, "Exceeding any vehicle weight rating limitation could result in serious damage to the vehicle and/or personal injury."

This is strictly my perspective on your question and others may not agree, Ford didn't make those statements in a WARNING to leave them open to interpretation by owners. They made those statements with the understanding that it's the owner's responsibility to maintain loading so that ALL weight (not a choice of either/or) must be maintained under ALL certification maximums. GVWR, RAWR, FAWR, GCWR, tire maximum loading and payload ALL must be maintained. It's not up to the owner to decide to only follow one or two and ignore the rest of the maximums. Since it's in a WARNING, if not followed, personal injury/death may result. (This is, I think, the part that lawyers are now starting to use in those overloaded RV lawsuits.)

From my perspective, as long as you "below" the maximum ratings in each of those categories, you're "golden" from a loading perspective. You do have other considerations in "safe operations" of your vehicle, CG, balance, speed, road conditions, safety belts, and all the other "owner responsibilities" to also consider. But, as for loading, as long as you're under all the maximums, you should be considered safe (and hopefully "legal")...

Now, my take on your last statement: "being close, but within, the legal limits of a 3/4 ton, it would stand to reason that you physically have a lot of breathing room" If you're comparing two vehicles that are identical, one with 3/4 ton badging and one with 1 ton badging, then with the lower ratings on the 3/4 ton vehicle, yes, you'd have a larger margin physically, but not legally. But, I don't know of any "required upgrades" that would make that truck "legally able to carry the 1 ton load".... It may be "physically capable" but without going through a "yellow sticker recertification" it will always be "legally" able to carry ONLY the 3/4 ton capacity no matter what you do in the way of "required upgrades". The next question then, "Can I recertify my truck at a higher payload?" and the answer is yes, there are some fabrication shops that have the authority to "recertify and change" the yellow sticker. You'll probably find that it would be more expensive to do that than to just "find and buy" a one ton truck....

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Outback 325BH

What is funny with yours (and others) posts on the matter is worrying about the legal aspect. Nobody has ever said the legalities of the sticker were being changed.

So your main concern is legalities. Fine, I get it. But that shouldn't concern you.

Then you make the (expected) leap to blood running through the highways. That is where the discussion gets off track... since it was already established that the physical abilities of the truck weren't over taxed.

I'm starting to see why the term "weight police " is used in such a derogatory manner. Gotta shake my head laughing at some of these discussions...


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Whatever makes you happy. I don't believe any "reasonable person" would accept your thoughts as "reasonable", especially when you resort to "blood running through the highways" as a point of contention.

As for the term "weight police", I spend a lot of time on forums, both RV and Truck, and here's what someone else said about "the weight police issue".

"I see people ask questions about weight and ask for opinions. I also know some like to try to help out with weight issues if they KNOW for a fact what they're talking about...I've not seen "weight police" pile on and bury people, but HAVE SEEN those who are probably towing well over their trucks RAWR pile on to the "so call" weight police, calling them names and being very obnoxious about the way they treat someone who is trying to give pertinent information. In other words, the "Golden Rule" is thrown out when it's "piling on time on the so called weight police."

I also have not witnessed the "weight police" resort to name calling or saying that "it's funny" or "laughable" to ignore the legal requirements for safe vehicle operation.

To me, it's not funny nor will you see me shake my head and laugh about the answers this forum provides to owners who are trying to get reliable information about the "SAFE AND LEGAL" operation of their RV. They deserve honest, reliable and accurate information, not some "I do it, you'll be OK opinion".

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Outback 325BH

What is funny with yours (and others) posts on the matter is worrying about the legal aspect. Nobody has ever said the legalities of the sticker were being changed.

So your main concern is legalities. Fine, I get it. But that shouldn't concern you.

Then you make the (expected) leap to blood running through the highways. That is where the discussion gets off track... since it was already established that the physical abilities of the truck weren't over taxed.

I'm starting to see why the term "weight police " is used in such a derogatory manner. Gotta shake my head laughing at some of these discussions...


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My thought after reading something like this is that life hasn't thrown a person many curves yet. When it does you will backtrack on what you've stated here or you didn't learn.

You obviously run overweight and are proud of it. Fine. The problem is trying to tell other new or unknowledgeable RV folks that it's fine....it's not. It's fine for you but that should never be encouraged with those that have no experience or may not even know what you talk about.

"Blood running through the highways"? That is a huge leap from anything I've read in these posts, but it can happen. Does it happen every day? No.
Can/will it happen? Yes. Will it be you? Maybe. How does one minimize the risk of something unfortunate happening to him, his family or others? They don't cut corners, make up facts to put themselves at ease etc. etc. You make every effort to cover every base, make sure that you are within all established weights/guidelines, new tires, etc. etc.

When you dismiss every established legal regulation; GVW, GVAW, GCVW et al because you have personally "modified" your vehicle based on your personal specs and your determination on what's legal or not then you have placed yourself in a place prudent people don't want to go.

When fate sticks his finger in your back, and it's your turn there you are; something, anything happens and suddenly you are swerving then sideways in the highway. It happens instantly....then it's over. The truck/trailer is on it's side across the highway, some unfortunate soul was hit/drove off the road/etc. due to the situation your combo caused. When it's said and done do you think law enforcement, insurance companies, families are going to be saying "wow, you did all that to that truck? There's no way it's your fault!!" No. That's not the way it will go. They will go to your truck and read the yellow sticker. Then they will do the same with the trailer....end of story. You probably think "there's no way, I'll explain it". What if you aren't there? Is that something you leave to your wife or kids to explain so they don't lose everything? The above is a perfect way for a person to go from having a "wonderful life" to living on welfare. If a person wants to live "out there" I guess that's fine but it's not something that should be encouraged.

I apologize to the site team but we have brand new folks asking weight/towing questions looking/hoping for honest and helpful advice on what to do. Encouraging them to break laws because "I do" or "I think they're wrong" isn't helpful to those asking and possibly harmful.

[Outback 325BH]

Originally Posted by sourdough

My thought after reading something like this is that life hasn't thrown a person many curves yet. When it does you will backtrack on what you've stated here or you didn't learn.



You obviously run overweight and are proud of it. Fine. The problem is trying to tell other new or unknowledgeable RV folks that it's fine....it's not. It's fine for you but that should never be encouraged with those that have no experience or may not even know what you talk about.



"Blood running through the highways"? That is a huge leap from anything I've read in these posts, but it can happen. Does it happen every day? No.

Can/will it happen? Yes. Will it be you? Maybe. How does one minimize the risk of something unfortunate happening to him, his family or others? They don't cut corners, make up facts to put themselves at ease etc. etc. You make every effort to cover every base, make sure that you are within all established weights/guidelines, new tires, etc. etc.



When you dismiss every established legal regulation; GVW, GVAW, GCVW et al because you have personally "modified" your vehicle based on your personal specs and your determination on what's legal or not then you have placed yourself in a place prudent people don't want to go.



When fate sticks his finger in your back, and it's your turn there you are; something, anything happens and suddenly you are swerving then sideways in the highway. It happens instantly....then it's over. The truck/trailer is on it's side across the highway, some unfortunate soul was hit/drove off the road/etc. due to the situation your combo caused. When it's said and done do you think law enforcement, insurance companies, families are going to be saying "wow, you did all that to that truck? There's no way it's your fault!!" No. That's not the way it will go. They will go to your truck and read the yellow sticker. Then they will do the same with the trailer....end of story. You probably think "there's no way, I'll explain it". What if you aren't there? Is that something you leave to your wife or kids to explain so they don't lose everything? The above is a perfect way for a person to go from having a "wonderful life" to living on welfare. If a person wants to live "out there" I guess that's fine but it's not something that should be encouraged.



I apologize to the site team but we have brand new folks asking weight/towing questions looking/hoping for honest and helpful advice on what to do. Encouraging them to break laws because "I do" or "I think they're wrong" isn't helpful to those asking and possibly harmful.

Guess you missed the "paper vs actual " points.

One is not unsafe when no engineered specs have been exceeded.

Thanks for the drama though.


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[Javi]

Unfortunately there is no penalty for stupid on the Internet, only in the real world. Too bad the stupid rarely actually pay the penalty, usually it's innocent bystanders.

Javi

[CaptnJohn]

Just wondering how tough a lawyer would find it to find posts of one he has filed a civil suit against where he states he knows he is towing above legal limits, suggests doing the same to others, and is proud of the fact? No question on what a judge or jury would think. Gross Negligence ~~ huge award.

[CWSWine]

When i ask the fleet manager of GMC about load over GVWR but staying under the GAWR this is the link he sent me. Looks like GMC got their posteriors covered. Here is the link he sent me...
http://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/how-to/u...ht-rating.html

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Outback 325BH

Guess you missed the "paper vs actual " points.

One is not unsafe when no engineered specs have been exceeded.

Thanks for the drama though.


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Didn't miss a thing. Do you have a new certification sticker on your truck indicating the new, higher weights you allude to?

[weebl]

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like we will be focusing on the 1 tons in our search, but could consider a 3/4 ton if the price/truck is right, or we are just not having luck finding a 1 ton.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by weebl

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like we will be focusing on the 1 tons in our search, but could consider a 3/4 ton if the price/truck is right, or we are just not having luck finding a 1 ton.

Buy a 1 ton. Install 5-point seat harnesses, a roll cage and wear a helmet and nomex coveralls, because there should be no limits to being safe. Anything less is irresponsible.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by weebl

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like we will be focusing on the 1 tons in our search, but could consider a 3/4 ton if the price/truck is right, or we are just not having luck finding a 1 ton.

http://www.sherwoodford.ca/new-ford-...erwood-park-ab

[SAABDOCTOR]

First off a 3/4 ton will never ever be a one ton. So please be safe. The edge is not a good place to be when towing. As they used to say at pratt&whitney "there ain't no replacement for displacement" get the 1 ton you will not regret that. Enjoy the adventures!

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by weebl

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like we will be focusing on the 1 tons in our search, but could consider a 3/4 ton if the price/truck is right, or we are just not having luck finding a 1 ton.

Yes the one ton is the best choice. It's lot better buying the wrong truck then defending your mistake by saying it really 1 ton.

[Outback 325BH]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

Yes the one ton is the best choice. It's lot better buying the wrong truck then defending your mistake by saying it really 1 ton.

LOL...


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[bsmith0404]

Be patient and look around. If you're willing to drive a short distance you will be able to find the right truck. It's much better to make the sacrifice of a road trip for the right truck than to settle for something local and constantly second guess. BTW, there are dealers all over the country who will deliver to you regardless of distance. Team Chevrolet in Scottsbluff NE is one of them.

[bagged123]

Originally Posted by weebl

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like we will be focusing on the 1 tons in our search, but could consider a 3/4 ton if the price/truck is right, or we are just not having luck finding a 1 ton.

be patient and look around, I bought a 2500 thinking we were done upgrading the TT to a fiver since we saw some nice motor coaches out there, however, after looking at some more 5'ers and talking about it we decided to upgrade to a fiver and not to a motorcoach which means I had to upgrade my 2500 to a 3500 after 7 months. So, be patient and shop around, you may have to go out a bit to find one, but they're out there, and now with 17's on the lots, see if any dealers have 16 leftovers, on their lot. Buy the 1 ton, it'll be worth it in the long run

[tech740]

I have the same camper but a 2011. I tow it with a 2010 2500 ram diesel. It does a fantastic job. It is close on ]eights but I have no reservations aboút going from Michigan to Tennessee. Happy camping. Our family loves the front bunk house floor plan.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by weebl

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like we will be focusing on the 1 tons in our search, but could consider a 3/4 ton if the price/truck is right, or we are just not having luck finding a 1 ton.

Just a little food for thought, used one tons are a rare beast, you might think about looking at all three makes. The years you are looking at you will need to be aware of the Ford 6.4 Liter.

The other thought is what is your budget???

Don't know what problems you would have taking a US vehicle into Canada, but if is not too much trouble there are some Dealers in the US that offer great pricing on new trucks. There are a couple the work out of Idaho, Dave Smith and Dennis Dillon dodge.

[66joej]

"weebl" If you are in Edmonton AB. (looking at your signature) a good low mileage 1 ton should be easy to find. With the precarious state of our oil patch I see there are a lot of good 3/4 and 1 tons in your area. Check out KIjiji.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by SAABDOCTOR

First off a 3/4 ton will never ever be a one ton. So please be safe. The edge is not a good place to be when towing. As they used to say at pratt&whitney "there ain't no replacement for displacement" get the 1 ton you will not regret that. Enjoy the adventures!

Well at least on paper and the VIN sticker. While I will never tell anyone to load over the 3/4 ton 10,000# GVRW, I do and it works because of the right truck. TV is 2001 Ram 2500 CTD with camper package and optional 265/75-16E tires. This is the 3500 SRW that Dodge/Ram didn't offer from 1994 to 2002.
Only suspension enhancement is a set of Bilstein 5100 shocks.

If I were looking to replace I would be getting a 3500, this just works very well.