Missing members

[wiredgeorge]

Disagree on the carb screw thing.... I spent all morning disassembling a set of Yamaha carburetors. One of the skills I had to learn was removing screws with stripped heads or galled (stuck). I have most all the motorcycle manuals a fella could want date ranging from the 60s to the turn of the century. Taking "before" pics of assemblies I am not all that familiar with is a must as the camera has a better memory than I. Do I use manuals? Hardly but I do look up specs a lot to set things to factory settings.

[sourdough]

Used to have stacks of OEM repair manuals, Haynes, Chiltons etc. Still have a stack for my CJ7 (since given away). Don't see folks use them much anymore.

Tore my first engine down on a '59 Ford F100 inline 6; needed rings due to....me. I was early teens and had a buddy that did a lot of work on his '57 Chevy 283 so we just jumped in with a manual. Worked out OK. Did the same on a Z28 and Vette (rebuild). On those I had the factory manuals and used a Polaroid "instant" camera to help me remember what the heck I took from where. The engine bays just kept getting more crowded making the job much less enjoyable. When I did the CJ7 it was like heaven; I could work on the engine, pull it and everything and sit on the wheel wells inside the engine compartment.....and my manual.

Back in the day when you started pulling things out you only had a couple of sensors (maybe) to worry about. Now there are so many computers, sensors and everything else, including the highly technical fuel injection and turbos, that just "jumping in" isn't advised. As complicated as they are now it's also not very conducive to making a person want to jump in and learn. Building materials, trees, woodworking, analog stuff and most other things are not an issue if a person wants to take the time to "learn"; those complicated engines/drivetrains these days? I leave that to a pro as I don't think my office has enough room for the amount of "books" I would need to muddle through those things.

[jxnbbl]

All of the last 6-8 posts are precious...as they are so true. I only know what I know since I've been exposed to it, made mistakes sure but gained knowledge... Pay it forward for friends/family with requests of - you are there learning while we fix it. You buy the beer or make the meal afterwards. Its worked for one of my brothers, my daughter, and a couple of nieces and nephews...as well as a couple of my tenants. It usually really hits home with car/house ownership....as they really don't figure out that percentage annual costs with those purchases.

[hankpage]

If Google had two good hands and a strong back it could replace neighbors and Clinton/Haynes manuals. Not there yet.

[flybouy]

"Bavk in the day" with a Chilton's book, a basic socket and wrench set you could just about fix anything. Now days you have to have tens of thousands of electrical diagnostic equipment and a tool box full of "specialized" tools to fix a blown fuse.

Many years ago I would asses the cost of the tool to fix a vehichle perhaps one time vs paying someone to fix it. Most times when making that assessment the cost savings wasn't worth the aggrevation to my busted up body and the resulting pain and recovery time. It took me a long time to relinquish my control and find a shop that I trusted. Used that repair shop for 25 years then the owner retired and his son didn’t want to continue. He made more money as a bouncer in a club. Sad sign of the times.

[Gkri]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Does anybody remember the "back couple of pages" in every vehicle owner's manual from years ago??? The pages where you could order "factory repair manuals" for the vehicle directly from the manufacturer? They cost somewhere around $50 for a complete set. I always bought them with every new car purchase, put them in 3 ring binders and after the 12 month/12000 mile warranty, if I had "car problems", even if I didn't intend to fix it myself, I'd use those manuals to help me determine if the mechanic was being honest and if he "sort of was on the right track" with what he was telling me...

Then there was the "Haynes repair manual" books that are still sold in most Auto Zone and O-Reilley's stores. They're available "in print or disc" versions and cover most of the "mechanical systems" on vehicles...

Used to be, as George was saying, we'd rely on books, do some reading, ask the neighbor, but a 6-pack and park the truck under the shade tree and go to work... Now, with computer controlled systems, there aren't any points, no carb adjustment screws, no timing lights and no "JC Whitney engine analyzer" on the shelf in most people's tool box....

Times have changed, but most of the information is still available, but most of us are "too busy to look for it" or "found a You-Tube video that'll work for now"....

Haynes Repair Manuals are still available: https://haynes.com/en-us/

I used the "Motors" general repair manual, purchased the 1-inch thick book for my '72 Opel GT, still have my timing light and Craftsman tune-up machine. Used to adjust valve lash, change/adjust points, plugs, cap, rotor, etc. Even timing chains on our Oldsmobile Custome Cruiser. Opened the hood of DW's GMC Acadia and could not even find the engine... On the plus side, most new vehicles go 100K or more on original plugs and wires.

[JRTJH]

If one is "industrious and curious" there are workarounds to having to buy the "tens of thousands of dollars" in computer equipment to diagnose today's complex vehicles....

Harbor Freight, most car parts stores sell "rudimentary engine diagnostic setups" that plug into the OBD port and give you "BASIC information"... Some will erase codes, some won't. Some will explain what the code means, some won't (and you need to then research the code somewhere else to find out what it means)...

Then there is "factory computer software" that the manufacturer uses to diagnose, maintain and repair" their vehicle computer systems... For Ford, that system is called, FORSCAN. It's "very expensive" to buy FORSCAN from Ford...

Fortunately, you can buy the system (the access cable) on Amazon for around $50 and download the software from the internet. With the tool and your laptop, you can "simulate what Ford has" in their service bay. Granted, if you just start rewriting programs, erasing things and changing things, it's pretty easy to "brick a new $80K truck". On the other hand, someone can spend less than $100 and have a OBD engine analyzer, a factory computer analyzer and with enough "knowledge/experience" do what Ford does in their "mega dollar service facility"...

Would I recommend that everyone "run out and buy the Ford system so they can fix everything that's not working on their new truck" ??? HECK NO !!!

But for some people, there are alternatives to paying the local Ford dealership $250 to turn off the check engine light or to turn on their "newly installed factory brake controller.

For most of today's vehicle management systems, there is a "daunting, complex unknown world" under the hood. But, objectively, maintaining and repairing that system (if you have the proper tools) is really requires less "remembering things mechanical" and is more "reading what the computer reveals and finding the correct exchange parts and how to remove/replace them on the vehicle"....

Having to rely on "secret knowledge on how to adjust a carb or how to set points and adjust timing " are skills no longer needed to maintain a "modern vehicle" all of those tasks are now "computer managed"... Maintaining them has become "integrated with parts replacement and computer adjustments"...

I think it's probably explained by the job description changes at dealerships.. No longer are there "mechanics" but they've been replaced by "technicians"...

RV dealerships are currently in the process of changing job descriptions from "RV mechanics" to "RV techs"... Just think back to the "control panel with mechanical switches and crank down stabilizers" and now, the "In-Command system" coupled with the KEY-TV, electronic leveling systems, CANBUS communication systems and the vast array of "micro circuitry" that controls everything from turning on the refrigerator to closing the awning when the wind blows.....

My "internal thoughts" revolve around, How much of this is an improvement in RV usability and how much is just a "gee-gaw" to appeal to a population that can't live without the latest I-phone or the most up to date "smart TV".... I wonder if it's centered on improving RV's or making them appear better than the competition's trailer.....

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

If one is "industrious and curious" there are workarounds to having to buy the "tens of thousands of dollars" in computer equipment to diagnose today's complex vehicles....

Harbor Freight, most car parts stores sell "rudimentary engine diagnostic setups" that plug into the OBD port and give you "BASIC information"... Some will erase codes, some won't. Some will explain what the code means, some won't (and you need to then research the code somewhere else to find out what it means)...

Then there is "factory computer software" that the manufacturer uses to diagnose, maintain and repair" their vehicle computer systems... For Ford, that system is called, FORSCAN. It's "very expensive" to buy FORSCAN from Ford...

Fortunately, you can buy the system (the access cable) on Amazon for around $50 and download the software from the internet. With the tool and your laptop, you can "simulate what Ford has" in their service bay. Granted, if you just start rewriting programs, erasing things and changing things, it's pretty easy to "brick a new $80K truck". On the other hand, someone can spend less than $100 and have a OBD engine analyzer, a factory computer analyzer and with enough "knowledge/experience" do what Ford does in their "mega dollar service facility"...

Would I recommend that everyone "run out and buy the Ford system so they can fix everything that's not working on their new truck" ??? HECK NO !!!

But for some people, there are alternatives to paying the local Ford dealership $250 to turn off the check engine light or to turn on their "newly installed factory brake controller.

For most of today's vehicle management systems, there is a "daunting, complex unknown world" under the hood. But, objectively, maintaining and repairing that system (if you have the proper tools) is really requires less "remembering things mechanical" and is more "reading what the computer reveals and finding the correct exchange parts and how to remove/replace them on the vehicle"....

Having to rely on "secret knowledge on how to adjust a carb or how to set points and adjust timing " are skills no longer needed to maintain a "modern vehicle" all of those tasks are now "computer managed"... Maintaining them has become "integrated with parts replacement and computer adjustments"...

I think it's probably explained by the job description changes at dealerships.. No longer are there "mechanics" but they've been replaced by "technicians"...

RV dealerships are currently in the process of changing job descriptions from "RV mechanics" to "RV techs"... Just think back to the "control panel with mechanical switches and crank down stabilizers" and now, the "In-Command system" coupled with the KEY-TV, electronic leveling systems, CANBUS communication systems and the vast array of "micro circuitry" that controls everything from turning on the refrigerator to closing the awning when the wind blows.....

My "internal thoughts" revolve around, How much of this is an improvement in RV usability and how much is just a "gee-gaw" to appeal to a population that can't live without the latest I-phone or the most up to date "smart TV".... I wonder if it's centered on improving RV's or making them appear better than the competition's trailer.....

Well John maybe that’s exactly what the rv dealers want…let’s make the systems so complicated that they will HAVE to bring them in for service..just like how John Deere doesn’t allow owners to access the computer systems to fix their own tractors that they pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for….

In command won’t work after 10 years? …well we have got just what you need …our techs will install a new updated control system designed to replace iN·command for just $5000….think of the value…nothing at all will work without it ….or pay someone a ton of money to rewire and add switches and relays to the entire rv…same $5000

Guess they were tired of seeing twenty year old rv’s still working as designed with basic tstats and light switches …no money there

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Well John maybe that’s exactly what the rv dealers want…let’s make the systems so complicated that they will HAVE to bring them in for service..just like how John Deere doesn’t allow owners to access the computer systems to fix their own tractors that they pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for….

In command won’t work after 10 years? …well we have got just what you need …our techs will install a new updated control system designed to replace iN·command for just $5000….think of the value…nothing at all will work without it ….or pay someone a ton of money to rewire and add switches and relays to the entire rv…same $5000

Guess they were tired of seeing twenty year old rv’s still working as designed with basic tstats and light switches …no money there

Yep...

As soon as you start negotiating in a "hostage situation" the prices for future ransom gets larger and larger.... No rest for the wicked, eh ??? <or those who try to deal with them>

[wiredgeorge]

An inexpensive code scanner that fits the OBD II port can be had for less than $10 at an autoparts store. I have about a dozen stashed in various places. These pull the generic codes and will erase the code to turn off a CEL. The code will likely reappear if the issue that caused it isn't corrected. All will give an idiot's explanation of the code but you can google it and get a more detailed explanation. A more comprehensive scanner that can deal with airbag and braking system CELs can be had for a bit more. To get the scanner needed to find manufacturer specific codes requires specialized scanners and one that can scan across manufacturers can cost a bucket of money. On a Ford, these type of errors are sometimes shown as a wrench icon on the dash. These require scanners that have Ford code reading capability. Often the codes the errors throw are extremely difficult to figure out as it might give you a bunch of error codes.

[Gkri]

From Autozone website:

"You can get to the bottom of your vehicle’s diagnostics by purchasing your own code reader, or you can bring your car to your local AutoZone and get it scanned as a part of our free Fix Finder service."

I believe a few other parts stores, maybe Pep Boys? offer the same free service, because they hope you will buy the replacement part from them, like an O2 sensor or sometimes something as simple as a new gas cap.

[notanlines]

Speaking about missing members, what came of 66Joe from British Columbia? Always had a fun post.

[flybouy]

Those "Auto parts store" free readings are the simplest of scanners. They will reveal a code for the check engine light. They will not reprogram (write to the computer program). So for the simple o2 sensor yes that works but to John's example of reprograming to turn on a replacement antilock brake module no that won't work.

To the subject of the more complex controls in a camper, I don’t think it's a grand conspiracy to drive dealer repairs. The additions are simply to drive sales. Folks see the apps to do simple things and think about convenience and about bragging rights around the campfire. Same reason the display screen in vehichles get larger with each model year and get filled with more icons for information that's basically useless after the original "gee look at this" wears off. JMHO

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

An inexpensive code scanner that fits the OBD II port can be had for less than $10 at an autoparts store. I have about a dozen stashed in various places. These pull the generic codes and will erase the code to turn off a CEL. The code will likely reappear if the issue that caused it isn't corrected. All will give an idiot's explanation of the code but you can google it and get a more detailed explanation. A more comprehensive scanner that can deal with airbag and braking system CELs can be had for a bit more. To get the scanner needed to find manufacturer specific codes requires specialized scanners and one that can scan across manufacturers can cost a bucket of money. On a Ford, these type of errors are sometimes shown as a wrench icon on the dash. These require scanners that have Ford code reading capability. Often the codes the errors throw are extremely difficult to figure out as it might give you a bunch of error codes.

I have a older obd2 scanner and recently bought a Bluetooth small module scanner…but this one I just picked up from harbor freight is great…it showed me which speed sensors were bad on my 04 Ram 1500 Hemi …abs light was on.
Now there is some hope because I just rebuilt this Hemi motor, took my 100k mile engine that dropped a valve and got a donor 300 k engine …just needed the block and one head and the intake…oh and all the pistons and connecting rods….used the crank and camshaft from the old engine and bought all new rings and rod and main bearings from Amazon .. new timing chain and oil pump. Engine runs great and sounds great (so far) …it won’t do a 10 second quarter mile but it’s fine for me …got quotes of up to $4000 to rebuild and over $2300 - $3000 for a used motor .

I probably have about 1 k invested …did it mostly for a winter learning project.
Bought a book on Amazon “new Hemi engines how to rebuild a Hemi 2003- present

Had to invest in a digital torque wrench because of torque to yield with torque to angle.
Have to buy all new head bolts as they stretch after torqued

It was mainly because I was bored and like to learn new things..did a Volvo diesel about 6 years ago and that was a nice project…all the volvo manuals were online but have since been removed.
You can still work on some newer engines but I watched a video where the Ford superduty with the 6.7 requires the COMPLETE CAB of the truck to be removed to replace the engine.
I might tackle my old beater jeep engine one of these days but it’s running pretty good right now.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Those "Auto parts store" free readings are the simplest of scanners. They will reveal a code for the check engine light. They will not reprogram (write to the computer program). So for the simple o2 sensor yes that works but to John's example of reprograming to turn on a replacement antilock brake module no that won't work.

To the subject of the more complex controls in a camper, I don’t think it's a grand conspiracy to drive dealer repairs. The additions are simply to drive sales. Folks see the apps to do simple things and think about convenience and about bragging rights around the campfire. Same reason the display screen in vehichles get larger with each model year and get filled with more icons for information that's basically useless after the original "gee look at this" wears off. JMHO

come on Marshall ..lol . A good conspiracy is always more interesting

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jasin1

come on Marshall ..lol . A good conspiracy is always more interesting

Once had a boss, he was VP of development that would often say "It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you".

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by hankpage

There aren't many members that have been around longer than I. (Wait, What was I going to say?) Oh, I know. I have a list of members that were active and just seemed to disappear. Others, as mentioned, get an answer or don't like the answer they get and never return.
The shared knowledge base of all our members is what makes this forum work. I have been camping since before many of our members were even born, but I have no knowledge about much of the new tech that is used on new trailers so I appreciate the input of our new members sharing their experience with these systems. I think that this is what makes our forum work. JM2¢, Hank

Is it possible to access the very first site posts on the forum? The actual member questions or threads that aren’t just introductions? I wondered when the forum started

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Is it possible to access the very first site posts on the forum? The actual member questions or threads that aren’t just introductions? I wondered when the forum started

Yes, you can access (but not search for) all threads.

First, you'll need to go to the User CP, scroll down to settings, then to Edit Options. Select that, then scroll down to Thread Display Options and then, in Default Thread Age Cut Off, select "show all threads". Don't forget to click "SAVE CHANGES" at the very bottom of the page.

That will give you access to all threads on the forum. Go to any section of the forum, select a category (for example, in Keystone Tech Forums, select "Keystone Questions". When that opens, just under the headers (near the top of the page), you'll see on the left, a tab for "New Thread"... To the right, you'll see "Page 1-95". Select "LAST" and it will open to the first threads in that category.

The first thread under Keystone Questions was dated 3-25-2009 and titled "Replacing Shades on 2006 Montana 3000RK"....

If you can't see that far back (moderators/administrators may have enhanced features, but I don't think so) let me know and I'll do some checking for you.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Yes, you can access (but not search for) all threads.

First, you'll need to go to the User CP, scroll down to settings, then to Edit Options. Select that, then scroll down to Thread Display Options and then, in Default Thread Age Cut Off, select "show all threads". Don't forget to click "SAVE CHANGES" at the very bottom of the page.

That will give you access to all threads on the forum. Go to any section of the forum, select a category (for example, in Keystone Tech Forums, select "Keystone Questions". When that opens, just under the headers (near the top of the page), you'll see on the left, a tab for "New Thread"... To the right, you'll see "Page 1-95". Select "LAST" and it will open to the first threads in that category.

The first thread under Keystone Questions was dated 3-25-2009 and titled "Replacing Shades on 2006 Montana 3000RK"....

If you can't see that far back (moderators/administrators may have enhanced features, but I don't think so) let me know and I'll do some checking for you.

Thanks John!
I’m a curious sort

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Yes, you can access (but not search for) all threads.

First, you'll need to go to the User CP, scroll down to settings, then to Edit Options. Select that, then scroll down to Thread Display Options and then, in Default Thread Age Cut Off, select "show all threads". Don't forget to click "SAVE CHANGES" at the very bottom of the page.

That will give you access to all threads on the forum. Go to any section of the forum, select a category (for example, in Keystone Tech Forums, select "Keystone Questions". When that opens, just under the headers (near the top of the page), you'll see on the left, a tab for "New Thread"... To the right, you'll see "Page 1-95". Select "LAST" and it will open to the first threads in that category.

The first thread under Keystone Questions was dated 3-25-2009 and titled "Replacing Shades on 2006 Montana 3000RK"....

If you can't see that far back (moderators/administrators may have enhanced features, but I don't think so) let me know and I'll do some checking for you.

Well John I don’t believe in coincidences…I did exactly as you said and then went to fifth wheels and clicked on last page


Well guess who posted the first question back in 2009…Festus2

It’s nice it came full circle…a member or a friend or family member is always remembered someway and somehow

I never interacted with Festus2 but for some reason his post came to mind when I started this thread…thanks