Auto slider hitch

[notanlines]

Originally Posted by Essvar

Maybe…. It’s the unsolicited advice you give to every single new member about their tow vehicle that creates this? This is a Keystone forum, it would be awesome if we could just answer the question a member asks, if you don’t know the answer don’t reply. If a member posts in the section specific to tow vehicles have at it…
I know you are trying to do the right thing and save the world… so if it helps I’m about to buy a fuzion 499 and tow it with a modified Tesla model y.

Momma won't let you buy the Plaid?

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by asherdav

Beg to differ with you but there's several fivers out there that can be towed wit f 150. Just do some research and see what is available

Not within all ratings. You might have a pin weight within the payload, but add hitch, passengers and anything carried in the TV, you are likely over GVWR, and over rear axle rating.

[Lindyn]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Here we go again!
The ultimate tow beast...... a F150!!
You may be able to order a F150 HDPP that'll carry a small 5er, but it's doubtful you'll find that truck sitting on a dealers lot in the past & sure won't find one without ordering it nowadays.
Any truck is limited by a few posted weights on it's door jamb. Typically the 1st to be exceeded is the payload especially with a 5er on a 1/2 ton pickup. Being able to "move/tow" a trailer isn't the same as being able to "carry" the load associated with that trailer.
Ford advertised a F150 "towing" a million pound train boxcar, but there was absolutely no load "on" that truck. They probably could've "towed" that same boxcar with a Ford Focus.

I agree, the F 150 should not be towing a 5th wheel. Most will pull the 5th wheel but stopping the 5th wheel, is another Issue. I feel the same way about a GM 1/2 ton's, they are not designed to tow 5he wheels, unless the weight is 5,000 lbs or less. This is my opinion, buy what you want. Saving you money! You will but a larger vehicle.

I might add also, I had a auto slide hitch. It didn't work for me. I had a massive failure, the hitch some how the king pin got half way of the the hitch. I have photo's some place. I will say this the hitch manufacture replaced the hitch after seeing the photo's.

The hitch was a Pullrite 20,000 lbs hitch.


Happy trails.

[wiredgeorge]

These threads seem to pop up now and again. Chum the water and the eco-boost crowd takes the bait. There may be a legit half ton with the payload to haul a light fifth wheel but in my limited experience, have NEVER seen one. Pretty much true for many 3/4 ton trucks as well but there likely are a certain percentage that are OK but NOT the 1/2 ton. People can talk about the magic packages that give them 2K payload but a 10K gross weight fifth wheel with one of those heavy hitches and people in the truck will be overloaded. The half ton guys coming out of the woodwork to scold experienced campers for pointing out OBVIOUS safety issues? Maybe we should start a forum area for the terminally overloaded aka half ton payload abuser folks.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Lindyn

I agree, the F 150 should not be towing a 5th wheel. Most will pull the 5th wheel but stopping the 5th wheel, is another Issue. I feel the same way about a GM 1/2 ton's, they are not designed to tow 5he wheels, unless the weight is 5,000 lbs or less. This is my opinion, buy what you want. Saving you money! You will but a larger vehicle.

I might add also, I had a auto slide hitch. It didn't work for me. I had a massive failure, the hitch some how the king pin got half way of the the hitch. I have photo's some place. I will say this the hitch manufacture replaced the hitch after seeing the photo's.

The hitch was a Pullrite 20,000 lbs hitch.


Happy trails.

Well the truck stops the truck the trailer should stop the trailer. That is all and good until the truck is over GVWR, now the truck is stopping more than it is rated for. Many F150’s start out life on “P” rated tires, not the best for carrying a 5er.

[LERD]

Just because I tow with an F150, doesn't mean I'm severely overloaded or wreckless, putting everyone in danger. That statement is not only false, it's insulting. I dug as deep as I could to educate myself about payload, pin weights etc. The DW and I were getting back into camping after an 8 year absence while we were boaters. Did I miss the fact that I couldn't use the Anderson hitch because of the short bed? Yes I did, and I also didn't realize that published pin weights can vary. My mistake. But when all was said and done, I was very close to being right on target. I'm 450lbs over my posted payload, but still 500 lbs under GCWR. That's 300 lbs of extra hitch, and the difference in the published pin weight. That's hardly what I call being wreckless. I never once assumed that I could tow whatever I wanted to with my truck. I'm not a fool, and I'm also not the one who is zooming by everyone in these lifted diesel trucks with their monster mud tires towing their 3 axle toy haulers at 80 mph. I also have had a class A CDL for the last 26 years, so I know how to drive and tow safely. But to help out my situation, I put a set of Timbrens on the truck and added a set of E rated tires. I know it doesn't change the numbers, but I have strengthened up my truck's weakest spots for now. Oh, and before you ask, YES, I ran our setup over a CAT scale. A new truck is forthcoming as soon as this availability and price stupidity ends.

[notanlines]

Lane, in following these forums I find many, many members picking and choosing numbers to make their particular weight 'in the envelope' if you will. I don't believe any members here were inferring that you are ignorant. Mistaken, yes. You being 450 pounds over cargo capacity on ANY F-150 is negligence. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't/cant haul that RV, I'm simply saying that you should be aware of how far out you are and that your practice is not a standard of the industry. You need to be aware that almost all performance features on your 'towing beast' as you were told by the truck salesman will be compromised. Good luck to you in your eventual search for a new truck. They will be coming, but not for a year or two, I'm sure.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by LERD

Just because I tow with an F150, doesn't mean I'm severely overloaded or wreckless, putting everyone in danger. That statement is not only false, it's insulting. I dug as deep as I could to educate myself about payload, pin weights etc. The DW and I were getting back into camping after an 8 year absence while we were boaters. Did I miss the fact that I couldn't use the Anderson hitch because of the short bed? Yes I did, and I also didn't realize that published pin weights can vary. My mistake. But when all was said and done, I was very close to being right on target. I'm 450lbs over my posted payload, but still 500 lbs under GCWR. That's 300 lbs of extra hitch, and the difference in the published pin weight. That's hardly what I call being wreckless. I never once assumed that I could tow whatever I wanted to with my truck. I'm not a fool, and I'm also not the one who is zooming by everyone in these lifted diesel trucks with their monster mud tires towing their 3 axle toy haulers at 80 mph. I also have had a class A CDL for the last 26 years, so I know how to drive and tow safely. But to help out my situation, I put a set of Timbrens on the truck and added a set of E rated tires. I know it doesn't change the numbers, but I have strengthened up my truck's weakest spots for now. Oh, and before you ask, YES, I ran our setup over a CAT scale. A new truck is forthcoming as soon as this availability and price stupidity ends.

I will only say this, what's the payload of your F150? They can vary quite a bit depending on trim level and options. The reason I ask is it will have a bearing on HOW MUCH you are overloaded. For instance, 450 lbs over a 1,200 payload is a much higher percentage thzn 450 lbs over a 2,200 lb. payload. Computing percentages can be edjucating in many ways. I recall when I was very young a traffic court judge doing this. He let one person go (probation before judgment) for going 10 mph over in a 70 mph zone. Next driver was cited going 10 over a 30 zone and found guilty. When the driver protestedbthe judge pointed aot he was exceeding the speed limit by 33% not just 10 mph. It put a new perspective on the numbers to me.

[LERD]

Payload is 1440 plus driver, so 1590. Based on what I originally calculated, I expected to be right at 1600 payload total. So I wasn't trying to quote "make it fit"

[wiredgeorge]

Lerd, the numbers you state have one problem. You have a 10,120 lb gross weight fifth wheel if fully loaded. Typically, the pin weight will be 23 percent of the gross weight or 2328 lbs. You may be a little lower than this if not fully loaded. Keep in mind published pin weights are not reality; they are a stripped trailer coming off the line. Add passengers and hitch and stuff in the truck and you are in the upper 2000s and WAY over your payload capacity. I have seen this issue too many times. Be safe as you are in legal hot water if involved in any sort of traffic issue. Any LEO or insurance adjuster/inspector will immediately notice a 5th wheel connected to a grossly inadequate 1/2 ton.

[JRTJH]

I honestly don't understand why payload, GVWR, GAWR and GCWR are so difficult to understand. Math is an "exact science". Weights are "scale measureable". Add and subtract the weights to get an "exact science answer"...

With that "exact science answer" go to the specific vehicle owner's manual and READ exactly what the manufacturer states. Typically it will have "do not exceed" statements that read something like:

Once you
have reached the maximum
payload of your vehicle, do not
add more cargo, even if there is
space available

The total load on each axle must
never exceed its Gross Axle
Weight Rating.

The gross vehicle weight must
never exceed the Gross Vehicle
Weight Rating.

The gross combined weight must
never exceed the Gross Combined
Weight Rating.


WARNING: Do not exceed
the GVWR or the GAWR
specified on the certification
label.

WARNING: Exceeding any
vehicle weight rating can
adversely affect the
performance and handling of
your vehicle, cause vehicle
damage and can result in the
loss of control of your vehicle,
serious personal injury or death.


The above are directly copied from the 2019 Ford F150 Owner's Manual.

To me, it seems simple. Use exact science to get exact results. If you're under by 1 pound, you're OK. If you're over by 1 pound, you're NOT OK.

Will your vehicle "self destruct" or will you "get brownie points" ??? NOPE. You may go a lifetime without ever having any "consequences" from your decisions. Then, you may, on your next trip, have something happen that exposes yourself and/or others to "consequences".... Being 1 pound over "can" (not will) result in those consequences rapidly turning from "in your favor" to "OMG, what did I do"....

I'd urge everyone to "use exact science". If you're under, that's great. If you're over, I'd first strongly recommend not "posting it on any forum" and secondly, make some "face in the mirror decisions" about the amount of exposure to risk you are taking. If that risk is acceptable, enjoy your RV travels. If that risk is not acceptable, then only you can do something to mitigate the risk.

Seems way too simple to me, and since it's "exact science" not "fudging and guessing", I just don't understand how someone can argue for days or weeks or months about something so simple as "what does the sticker say and what does the weight slip from the CAT Scale say".....

[Rebshots1953]

We have a B&W and have had zero problems. That said, we haul a 29RKS ( half ton rated) with an f250 diesel 4x4. I don’t think we could pull with an f150. The transmission would probably be the first to go. 🤷*♀️

[rlh1957]

A fifth wheel towable is a sales gimmick and rarely do all the real numbers of truck and fifth wheel fall with-in safe specs.
As said prior, subtract 200-300 lbs from your truck payload as the fifth wheel slider hitch will eat that up.
The factory sticker on truck and fifth wheel only reflect weight of unit as it rolled off the manufacturer scale.
You’ll want a full tank of fuel in the truck, maybe a set of tools or jack, cooler/fridge, fire extinguisher, the bed hitch for fifth wheel, and how many people and pets will climb onboard? Adding on running boards that aren’t from factory, a compressor?
The fifth wheel you’ll certainly add on or upgrade the batteries and all propane and tanks will be full. Clothes & groceries will add much more weight than prople think.
Just saying a 30’ fifth wheel that says half ton towable is a nice wish or very least operating at very near max capacity for both.
Stopping quickly is a whole new experience when bear max weight.

I had a half ton truck that could tow a 747 also!

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I honestly don't understand why payload, GVWR, GAWR and GCWR are so difficult to understand.

John, The reason payload is a mystery to some folks is that they purchased a camper and figured their tow vehicle was up to the task because of sales brochures, sales people who spoke with a forked tongue or were more ignorant than their customers, TV commercials that made claims that were totally exaggerated, etc. OK, the new camper owner gets camper home and is faced with folks telling him/her that their truck ain't up to task. Sometimes rationalization is a good thing as it keeps us from going nuts but in this case... well it leads a trip down De Nile. In other words, you just talked your SO into allowing you to spend a bucket of money and now need to tell that same SO you need a new tow vehicle? Easier to slip off into denial than face the wrath of SHE. It basically comes down to accepting the advice of forum members or deciding to believe a sales brochure or salesman (expert, of course).

[LERD]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Lerd, the numbers you state have one problem. You have a 10,120 lb gross weight fifth wheel if fully loaded. Typically, the pin weight will be 23 percent of the gross weight or 2328 lbs. You may be a little lower than this if not fully loaded. Keep in mind published pin weights are not reality; they are a stripped trailer coming off the line. Add passengers and hitch and stuff in the truck and you are in the upper 2000s and WAY over your payload capacity. I have seen this issue too many times. Be safe as you are in legal hot water if involved in any sort of traffic issue. Any LEO or insurance adjuster/inspector will immediately notice a 5th wheel connected to a grossly inadequate 1/2 ton.

Well I never expected published information on a camper to be unreliable. That was mistake one. I expected the pin weight ratio to always stay the same. In my case, I expected the 15% dry ratio to stay at 15% at gross weight. Again, published information. So fortunately while I am over weight, I'm not grossly inadequate. I have added modifications to offset that, 10ply tires and Timbrens. If this truck craziness ever ends, I will have a new F350 in the driveway. I do appreciate the concern, just know I take my time and use all of my CDL skills to stay safe.

[bigdave_185]

Originally Posted by LERD

Well I never expected published information on a camper to be unreliable. That was mistake one. I expected the pin weight ratio to always stay the same. In my case, I expected the 15% dry ratio to stay at 15% at gross weight. Again, published information. So fortunately while I am over weight, I'm not grossly inadequate. I have added modifications to offset that, 10ply tires and Timbrens. If this truck craziness ever ends, I will have a new F350 in the driveway. I do appreciate the concern, just know I take my time and use all of my CDL skills to stay safe.

You mention your cdl skills, you do know you will get hammered even harder because you have a class A and are towing over weight in your personal vehicle right?

[Laredo Tugger]

"These threads seem to pop up now and again. Chum the water and the eco-boost crowd takes the bait." Quote by wiredgeorge in post #24.
And like bigdave 185 said, the OP has not responded to any replies.
I guess the OP had a few friends over and they started a betting pool on how long a question (post) like that would post before someone hammered his F150 fifth wheel towing plans. Probably started the timer when he clicked "post".
You guy's always give sound and safe advice, that's not the problem. Falling on deaf ears seems to occur on a regular basis here. No matter how hard you try we all agree
"You can't fix stupid".
I hope who ever won the pool uses the money to start saving for a bigger truck.
RMc

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by LERD

Well I never expected published information on a camper to be unreliable. That was mistake one. I expected the pin weight ratio to always stay the same. In my case, I expected the 15% dry ratio to stay at 15% at gross weight. Again, published information. So fortunately while I am over weight, I'm not grossly inadequate. I have added modifications to offset that, 10ply tires and Timbrens. If this truck craziness ever ends, I will have a new F350 in the driveway. I do appreciate the concern, just know I take my time and use all of my CDL skills to stay safe.

I got this from another post.

Originally Posted by LERD

Well even though my next truck will be a F-350, I am currently towing an '07 Copper Canyon 5th wheel with a 2013 3.5l ecoboost. I ran it across the scales one trip. Fully loaded to our level of camping, full fresh tank and I just topped off the fuel. I was right at 14800. Under my GVWR, but over paylaod by 750lbs. I thought, not too bad. But my fuel economy was no where near 10-11 mpg going into Tennessee. More like 8-9 mpg. That engine is fantastic, but it's not eco! BTW, I have made adjustments like Timbrens and 10ply tires till I can get a newer TV to help with the added weight.

You can't be under GVWR and 750# over payload! You can be under GCWR, but that is a PULLING number not a CARRYING number, that is what the PAYLOAD number is. As a CDL holder you should understand these numbers.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by LERD

Well I never expected published information on a camper to be unreliable. That was mistake one. I expected the pin weight ratio to always stay the same. In my case, I expected the 15% dry ratio to stay at 15% at gross weight. Again, published information. So fortunately while I am over weight, I'm not grossly inadequate. I have added modifications to offset that, 10ply tires and Timbrens. If this truck craziness ever ends, I will have a new F350 in the driveway. I do appreciate the concern, just know I take my time and use all of my CDL skills to stay safe.

The "published information" is basically advertising and is like looking at the EPA estimated fuel milage on a new car. As a CDL driver J would think you would understand the basic principle of how a load in a trailer affects the weight of the pin and axles.

The "published weight" of a fiver is the weight of a trailer without LP in the tanks, no batteries and no spare tire. Those items are dealer installed. That weight also does NOT include any "options" even though those "options" are included in a package from the factory. That's a real issue if the bedroom a/c isn't includded as it sets very close to the pin as do the batteries and LP tanks. Then the owner loads up the trailer and where do the cloths, bed covers, mattress topper etc go? Right over the pin. Add a washer/dryer and that typically sets right over the pin. Obviously the pin weight percentage will not remain constant so the "accepted standard" is to use 23% of gross trailer weight is used until actual weights can be obtained.

[LERD]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I got this from another post.



You can't be under GVWR and 750# over payload! You can be under GCWR, but that is a PULLING number not a CARRYING number, that is what the PAYLOAD number is. As a CDL holder you should understand these numbers.

You might be right about the 750, I need to find that slip. I do know I was under my GCWR. I apologize if I didn't remember it accurately.