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Old 12-20-2011, 05:08 PM   #1
Kanuk
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Question Towing 360 Fuzion

Have 2011 Dodge Ram 2500HD diesel Towing my Fuzion360 little bite on the high side of specs. Installing air bags to accept additional weight in bed, any one towing similiar would love feedback.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:39 PM   #2
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Hello and welcome to the forum. Just a reminder that installing air bags will not increase the towing capacity of your Dodge or any other truck. It may "level out" the two units - the TV and your toy hauler - and may give you a smoother ride but again, keep in mind that if you think that you are on the "high side of the specs", the airbags will do nothing to keep you within the safe towing guidelines.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:01 AM   #3
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towing

I have a very similar unit and truck that you have. I have the Raptor 365 LEV and a 2011 3500 SRW Dodge. I installed the Firestone airbags and love them, The truck tows very well, especially with the engine modifications. The airbags level it well, make the ride great, and overall handling nice. I agree with the above post about not changing the GVR, but with the truck leveled you will not "look" heavy and you will handle it well.the only difference between your truck and mine is the rear leaf springs...brakes are the same....Hope this helps. Dave
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Old 12-21-2011, 06:14 PM   #4
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Thanks for the response.
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanuk View Post
Have 2011 Dodge Ram 2500HD diesel Towing my Fuzion360 little bite on the high side of specs. Installing air bags to accept additional weight in bed, any one towing similiar would love feedback.
Is there any way that you can get pics posted of that set up, I just bought a ram 2500 and was thinking of getting the fuzion 322.....
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:28 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by 08ramguy View Post
Is there any way that you can get pics posted of that set up, I just bought a ram 2500 and was thinking of getting the fuzion 322.....
08ramguy, I know you didn't ask for any advice, but I wanted to bring a couple of things to your attention.

If you owned a new 2012 Ram 2500HD with diesel, the payload would be 2090 and the total tow limit of 12850lbs (with automatic trans, that goes to 15500 lbs). The Fuzion 322 has a hitch weight of 2845 and a GVW of 16000. That means the hitch weight is about 36% greater than your payload and the trailer weight (loaded) is about 25% greater than your max tow weight. If the 322 were towed empty without batteries or propane, you'd be 800 lbs over your max payload and within 1000 lbs of your max trailer weight, so essentially, if you loaded one 4wheeler in the toy compartment, you'd be almost at your max towing limit for the truck. Add a hitch for the trailer, 2 batteries and 60 lbs of propane and a coujple of passengers, and you'd be over your truck's payload limit by probably 1500 to 2000 lbs. With the pinweight of the trailer on the truck, there'd be no room for passengers or cargo, so theoretically, no gas for the 4wheeler, no passengers to travel with you, no other cargo could be added and you'd still be 800 lbs OVER your max load.

As an example, imagine someone owned a Ranger Supercab and posted that they were considering buying a Springdale 247 Fifth wheel that weighed 6415 lbs and had a tongue weight of 975 empty. What would be your "kneejerk" reaction about the safety of their proposal? They would be "within" the payload of their truck and as long as they only loaded about 500 lbs in the trailer, they'd be only about 25% overloaded on their max trailer weight. Could you imagine a Ranger towing a 28' fifth wheel down the highway and if you saw it travelling along at 65 MPH, would you think that the driver was operating the rig safely?

That example is roughly what you'd be doing to your 2500HD if you tried to tow a Fuzion 322. Will it do it? probably... Safely and without overloading your tow vehicle? Doubtful... Very VERY doubtful.

I'd urge you to reconsider either a larger TV or a smaller trailer.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:07 PM   #7
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I think that last post is a little over the top....
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:13 PM   #8
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No air bags required.......love my F-450. Even loaded with fire wood, no proplem





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Old 12-23-2011, 04:52 PM   #9
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NICE TRUCK, If you're going to tow something that big, your truck is the "way to go"
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Old 12-25-2011, 08:10 AM   #10
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Trailer is put away till spring.
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Old 12-25-2011, 09:32 AM   #11
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In spec or not...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigpuddie View Post
I think that last post is a little over the top....
There shouldn't need to be any guessing involved here, it's either in spec or it's not right? I've pushed the limits before, technically within spec, however was real unhappy and actually unsafe, white-knuckle driving is not exactly a way to spend a vacation.
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Old 12-25-2011, 10:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
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I think that last post is a little over the top....
The poster you are criticizing offered verifiable data in support of his position.

Do you have any factual information to offer to support your claim?
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Old 12-26-2011, 07:02 AM   #13
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If your are over your tire or axle rating max weight , you are in very dangerous and expensive territory. A single wheel rear with that kind of weight must be close?
Also remember that you must be licensed for the total weight of your combination, private use rv or not. If you get pulled and weighed, and you do not have license (fees) for your weight, it will cost you much more than the price of the weight. (In Ontario is about 400.00 for 21,000lb)
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:44 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
08ramguy, I know you didn't ask for any advice, but I wanted to bring a couple of things to your attention.

If you owned a new 2012 Ram 2500HD with diesel, the payload would be 2090 and the total tow limit of 12850lbs (with automatic trans, that goes to 15500 lbs). The Fuzion 322 has a hitch weight of 2845 and a GVW of 16000. That means the hitch weight is about 36% greater than your payload and the trailer weight (loaded) is about 25% greater than your max tow weight. If the 322 were towed empty without batteries or propane, you'd be 800 lbs over your max payload and within 1000 lbs of your max trailer weight, so essentially, if you loaded one 4wheeler in the toy compartment, you'd be almost at your max towing limit for the truck. Add a hitch for the trailer, 2 batteries and 60 lbs of propane and a coujple of passengers, and you'd be over your truck's payload limit by probably 1500 to 2000 lbs. With the pinweight of the trailer on the truck, there'd be no room for passengers or cargo, so theoretically, no gas for the 4wheeler, no passengers to travel with you, no other cargo could be added and you'd still be 800 lbs OVER your max load.

As an example, imagine someone owned a Ranger Supercab and posted that they were considering buying a Springdale 247 Fifth wheel that weighed 6415 lbs and had a tongue weight of 975 empty. What would be your "kneejerk" reaction about the safety of their proposal? They would be "within" the payload of their truck and as long as they only loaded about 500 lbs in the trailer, they'd be only about 25% overloaded on their max trailer weight. Could you imagine a Ranger towing a 28' fifth wheel down the highway and if you saw it travelling along at 65 MPH, would you think that the driver was operating the rig safely?

That example is roughly what you'd be doing to your 2500HD if you tried to tow a Fuzion 322. Will it do it? probably... Safely and without overloading your tow vehicle? Doubtful... Very VERY doubtful.

I'd urge you to reconsider either a larger TV or a smaller trailer.
Ok, first I have a 2011, payload 2300, towing is 12550, per my build sheet....I know with out a doubt this truck can handle the weight of the trailer loaded with no problems, I have been driving trucks (class a) at that, for long time.....my gcwr is 22000..so will I be over loaded maybe, is it unsafe, not to sure, as a ram 3500 has a higher payload, but to tell you the difference between a 2500 and 3500...ram that is, is the frame on a 3500 is a tad thicker, it isnt the leaf springs are different, that is fords issue, the brakes rear end axle its all the same.....that is what I got from the research i have done, I will not how ever buy this trailer if it turns out that I think it is unsafe for me to tow....I wasnt born yesterday, and will be more than happy to read all comments and concerns......if I am missing something or wrong please correct me, if your going to correct me please include where your information came from so that I may look into it...thanks....
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:32 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by 08ramguy View Post
Ok, first I have a 2011, payload 2300, towing is 12550, per my build sheet....I know with out a doubt this truck can handle the weight of the trailer loaded with no problems, I have been driving trucks (class a) at that, for long time.....my gcwr is 22000..so will I be over loaded maybe, is it unsafe, not to sure, as a ram 3500 has a higher payload, but to tell you the difference between a 2500 and 3500...ram that is, is the frame on a 3500 is a tad thicker, it isnt the leaf springs are different, that is fords issue, the brakes rear end axle its all the same.....that is what I got from the research i have done, I will not how ever buy this trailer if it turns out that I think it is unsafe for me to tow....I wasnt born yesterday, and will be more than happy to read all comments and concerns......if I am missing something or wrong please correct me, if your going to correct me please include where your information came from so that I may look into it...thanks....
You say your payload is 2300 lbs. Add your wife (150), a couple of kids (150), a generator (100), a couple of 5 gallon gas cans (for the generator) (80) a hitch (150) and you have added about 680 lbs to your truck. This reduces your payload by that amount, so now your payload for the trailer is 1670 lbs.

The pin weight for the Fuzion 322 is 2845 EMPTY (and will be significantly heavier loaded). If you hitched the trailer empty to your truck, you'd be overloaded by 1175 lbs. Remember, that's towing an EMPTY trailer. By the time you add a couple of 12V batteries and fill the propane tanks (which sit in the front compartment of the trailer) your pin weight is going to be over 3000 lbs (still with an empty trailer)

Now, the trailer weight EMPTY is 11,751. That's only 799 lbs less than your max tow weight. By the time you add a pack of lunch meat, a loaf of bread and a 6 pack of soft drinks, fill the fresh water tank, you're going to be at your max trailer tow weight. Realistically, expect to add about 1000 to 1500 lbs of cargo for most trips. Now, that's with the garage EMPTY. Add a 4 wheeler or a couple of dirt bikes and you're potentially 3 or 4 thousand pounds over your truck's max trailer weight and still below the 16000 lb GVW of the trailer.

Will it tow it? Heck yes, the Cummins engine is one of the strongest you can buy. It will get your rig up to speed and tow that trailer (in most towing environments) in 5th or 6th gear. Stopping it will be about the same. It'll stop the rig (in most towing environments) as well as a 3500 SRW truck.

The problem, as I construct the numbers is that even with a 3500 SRW, you'd still be overloaded (on payload) with an empty pinweight of 2900 lbs.

The Fuzion 322 is a nice rig, but realistically, it's designed for a 3500 DRW or bigger truck. To try to tow that size trailer with a 2500 is pushing all the numbers. Will it do it, again, Heck yeah. Will your insurance cover your rig in the event of an accident? Will a "good lawyer" take you to the cleaners if you are involved in an accident and the "injured party" realizes how overloaded your rig is? Will your family be safe in that combination in an "abnormal towing environment"? Is it worth the personal risk? Only you can answer those questions.

Again, it's not a matter of "obtaining operating speed". Your truck would likely tow the Fuzion 322 easily at 75 or 80 MPH, But the tires are only rated at 65MPH. Would it be "safe" to go faster because the truck "can do it"? Probably no safer than overloading the truck because the truck "can do it"

Please read this with an open mind and realize that I'm not telling you that "you can't do it" Heck, unless we happen to be alongside each other on the highway (highly unlikely) I've got no stake in your decision. The advice comes from my understanding of the engineering limits designed into a vehicle which are intended to allow adequate use for designed purpose while assuring reliability and safety for the operator. Go too far beyond the engineering limits and reliability and/or safety go down the tubes.

I'm sure others will comment on their opinions regarding your truck/RV considerations (and probably my comments as well).

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:46 AM   #16
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Very well said JRTJH! You make three very important points. 1. We have no stake in 08RamGuy's decision, we don't sell trucks nor do we sell trailers. Just an honest opinion based on the "numbers" and some personal experience. 2. When any of us tow overloaded we are risking the safety of our families and our fellow travelers. 3. In the event of an accident, regardless of fault, the overloaded vehicle driver has opened themselves up to be taken for all they are worth (present and future). I believe it is called "Willful negligence".
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:40 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Very well said JRTJH! You make three very important points. 1. We have no stake in 08RamGuy's decision, we don't sell trucks nor do we sell trailers. Just an honest opinion based on the "numbers" and some personal experience. 2. When any of us tow overloaded we are risking the safety of our families and our fellow travelers. 3. In the event of an accident, regardless of fault, the overloaded vehicle driver has opened themselves up to be taken for all they are worth (present and future). I believe it is called "Willful negligence".
Amen to that!
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:38 PM   #18
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We have a 360 and went from an 05' Dodge 3500 SRW, 5.9, 3:73 to a 2012 Ram 3500 DRW, 6.7, 4:10. I really would not have considered a 360 if I had less than a one ton truck without the proper towing specs. JMHO
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Old 12-29-2011, 03:33 PM   #19
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Overload....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 08ramguy View Post
Ok, first I have a 2011, payload 2300, towing is 12550, per my build sheet....I know with out a doubt this truck can handle the weight of the trailer loaded with no problems, I have been driving trucks (class a) at that, for long time.....my gcwr is 22000..so will I be over loaded maybe, is it unsafe, not to sure, as a ram 3500 has a higher payload, but to tell you the difference between a 2500 and 3500...ram that is, is the frame on a 3500 is a tad thicker, it isnt the leaf springs are different, that is fords issue, the brakes rear end axle its all the same.....that is what I got from the research i have done, I will not how ever buy this trailer if it turns out that I think it is unsafe for me to tow....I wasnt born yesterday, and will be more than happy to read all comments and concerns......if I am missing something or wrong please correct me, if your going to correct me please include where your information came from so that I may look into it...thanks....
Think you should have stopped here....."I know with out a doubt this truck can handle the weight of the trailer loaded with no problems, I have been driving trucks (class a) at that, for long time.....my gcwr is 22000..so will I be over loaded maybe..."
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
You say your payload is 2300 lbs. Add your wife (150), a couple of kids (150), a generator (100), a couple of 5 gallon gas cans (for the generator) (80) a hitch (150) and you have added about 680 lbs to your truck. This reduces your payload by that amount, so now your payload for the trailer is 1670 lbs.

The pin weight for the Fuzion 322 is 2845 EMPTY (and will be significantly heavier loaded). If you hitched the trailer empty to your truck, you'd be overloaded by 1175 lbs. Remember, that's towing an EMPTY trailer. By the time you add a couple of 12V batteries and fill the propane tanks (which sit in the front compartment of the trailer) your pin weight is going to be over 3000 lbs (still with an empty trailer)

Now, the trailer weight EMPTY is 11,751. That's only 799 lbs less than your max tow weight. By the time you add a pack of lunch meat, a loaf of bread and a 6 pack of soft drinks, fill the fresh water tank, you're going to be at your max trailer tow weight. Realistically, expect to add about 1000 to 1500 lbs of cargo for most trips. Now, that's with the garage EMPTY. Add a 4 wheeler or a couple of dirt bikes and you're potentially 3 or 4 thousand pounds over your truck's max trailer weight and still below the 16000 lb GVW of the trailer.

Will it tow it? Heck yes, the Cummins engine is one of the strongest you can buy. It will get your rig up to speed and tow that trailer (in most towing environments) in 5th or 6th gear. Stopping it will be about the same. It'll stop the rig (in most towing environments) as well as a 3500 SRW truck.

The problem, as I construct the numbers is that even with a 3500 SRW, you'd still be overloaded (on payload) with an empty pinweight of 2900 lbs.

The Fuzion 322 is a nice rig, but realistically, it's designed for a 3500 DRW or bigger truck. To try to tow that size trailer with a 2500 is pushing all the numbers. Will it do it, again, Heck yeah. Will your insurance cover your rig in the event of an accident? Will a "good lawyer" take you to the cleaners if you are involved in an accident and the "injured party" realizes how overloaded your rig is? Will your family be safe in that combination in an "abnormal towing environment"? Is it worth the personal risk? Only you can answer those questions.

Again, it's not a matter of "obtaining operating speed". Your truck would likely tow the Fuzion 322 easily at 75 or 80 MPH, But the tires are only rated at 65MPH. Would it be "safe" to go faster because the truck "can do it"? Probably no safer than overloading the truck because the truck "can do it"

Please read this with an open mind and realize that I'm not telling you that "you can't do it" Heck, unless we happen to be alongside each other on the highway (highly unlikely) I've got no stake in your decision. The advice comes from my understanding of the engineering limits designed into a vehicle which are intended to allow adequate use for designed purpose while assuring reliability and safety for the operator. Go too far beyond the engineering limits and reliability and/or safety go down the tubes.

I'm sure others will comment on their opinions regarding your truck/RV considerations (and probably my comments as well).

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
All very good points, and I agree something to think about, can not argue logic....
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