TT to 5th wheel

[alelka]

We are seriously thinking of trading in our TT and getting a 5th wheel. I hear that hooking up a 5th wheel and driving is much easier than a TT. Our tow vehicle is a 2015 F350 4X4 6.2 gasser. I believe we could tow a 5th @ 10,000 lbs. I do not know how to determine what our hitch/payload weight is, what is the formula?

Thanks!

[markcee]

Originally Posted by alelka

We are seriously thinking of trading in our TT and getting a 5th wheel. I hear that hooking up a 5th wheel and driving is much easier than a TT. Our tow vehicle is a 2015 F350 4X4 6.2 gasser. I believe we could tow a 5th @ 10,000 lbs. I do not know how to determine what our hitch/payload weight is, what is the formula?

Thanks!

- Figure 20-25% of trailer's GVWR as your pin weight. In your 10K trailer example that's 2000 - 2500 lbs.

- Your truck's payload is listed on the yellow/white/black sticker on the driver's door pillar.

Your calculated pin weight, as described above, plus you, all passengers, cargo, gear, tools, the hitch etc. in the cab/bed of the truck should not exceed the payload sticker value. NOTE: anything added to the truck by you after it left the factory will also need to be deducted from the door sticker's payload value. For example, if you added a 100 lb. toolbox, it needs to be deducted. If you really want an accurate value on what you have for payload you should load up the truck for camping, including all passengers, fill up the tank and head to a CAT scale and get weighed. Deduct the weight of the truck from the truck's GVWR - which you will find on the other sticker on the driver's door pillar. Since you probably don't have a 5th wheel hitch installed yet, you will still need to account for that (that is, add it's weight) to your truck's scaled weight.

I wouldn't guess you would have much problem with a 10K GVWR 5th wheel on an F350 gasser. You are probably close to or over 4K for payload.

[chuckster57]

Depending on bed length, you may need to factor in the weight of a sliding hitch.

[Northofu1]

Or buy an Anderson Ultimate /Pullrite gooseneck. Both are very light and short bed friendly.

[alelka]

It is a long bed.

[alelka]

Originally Posted by markcee

- Figure 20-25% of trailer's GVWR as your pin weight. In your 10K trailer example that's 2000 - 2500 lbs.

- Your truck's payload is listed on the yellow/white/black sticker on the driver's door pillar.

Your calculated pin weight, as described above, plus you, all passengers, cargo, gear, tools, the hitch etc. in the cab/bed of the truck should not exceed the payload sticker value. NOTE: anything added to the truck by you after it left the factory will also need to be deducted from the door sticker's payload value. For example, if you added a 100 lb. toolbox, it needs to be deducted. If you really want an accurate value on what you have for payload you should load up the truck for camping, including all passengers, fill up the tank and head to a CAT scale and get weighed. Deduct the weight of the truck from the truck's GVWR - which you will find on the other sticker on the driver's door pillar. Since you probably don't have a 5th wheel hitch installed yet, you will still need to account for that (that is, add it's weight) to your truck's scaled weight.

I wouldn't guess you would have much problem with a 10K GVWR 5th wheel on an F350 gasser. You are probably close to or over 4K for payload.

I hate to say it but I'm just not good with numbers. In school my ind would just wander off. Guess my husband is going to have to figure this one out. He is a retired truck driver. So, let me understand, look at the post on the truck. Add up the hitch (whatever brand) my husband and I and our two dogs. Take that number and subtract it from the number on the post?

[Northofu1]

Your Tow vehicle is more than capable of towing a 10k gvwr 5th wheel.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by alelka

I hate to say it but I'm just not good with numbers. In school my ind would just wander off. Guess my husband is going to have to figure this one out. He is a retired truck driver. So, let me understand, look at the post on the truck. Add up the hitch (whatever brand) my husband and I and our two dogs. Take that number and subtract it from the number on the post?

Definitely agree with Northofu1

But to answer your question....generally yes...what is left is what you will have for the 5th wheel's calculated (20-25% of GVWR) pin weight.

For example:

You, your husband, 2 dogs, and various gear, tools etc in the truck weigh 550 lbs

The hitch you select weighs 125 lbs

Your door sticker payload says 3,800 lbs

3,800 - 550 - 125 = 3,125 lbs

This is what you will have left to carry the 5th wheels pin (hitch) weight. In your 10K example trailer, let's go with 25% to be safe, that's 2,500 lbs.

3,125 - 2,500 gives you a cushion (excess payload) of 625 lbs.

This will give you a good ballpark estimate, but as mentioned in my first post, nothing beats loading up the truck for camping and getting it weighed at a CAT scale. You can then subtract this figure from the truck's GVWR (the other door sticker) to get your actual starting payload figure.

[sourdough]

Alelka, your 350 should be able to tow a 10k 5th wheel...but is that 10k listed dry weight or gvw? It needs to be gvw (the number used for calculations), not the advertised weight by the manufacturer.

Find the gvw of the prospective trailer, find the sticker in the driver door of your truck and post those numbers. The rest of the variables you should have a pretty good idea of and we can help with that. The 2 things that need to be known are the carrying capacity of your truck (payload) and the max weight of your trailer. You can sort of back into the numbers from there sans scale numbers.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

Or buy an Anderson Ultimate /Pullrite gooseneck. Both are very light and short bed friendly.

Even with an 8’ bed I’d still go with the Pullrite 2600 if you have a gooseneck ball. If you have rails, get the 2400. Same hitch just different connection to the truck. At 63 lbs and a small footprint, it’s easy in and out and easy to store. The Andersen is a nice light weight hitch as well, same concept and there’s a version for gooseneck or rails as well. I’ve had both and just prefer the Pullrite. Your 350 is more than capable of a 10,000 5th wheel. You should not have a payload issue.

[JRTJH]

As Danny (sourdough) posted, towing a 10,000 pound fifth wheel with most 1 ton trucks shouldn't be a problem...

THAT SAID, IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU DETERMINE THE 10,000 POUNDS !!!!!

If you're talking a 9,998 pound toyhauler (empty weight) with a 4200 pound payload capacity, you're NOT talking about a 10,000 pound fifth wheel, you're talking about a 14,000 pound fifth wheel and you may well run into some significant issues staying below your truck's capacity with "that kind of 10,000 pound trailer....

On the other hand, if you're talking about a 8200 pound trailer with an 1800 pound payload, with a 10,000 pound maximum GVW, then that's an entirely different situation....

So, as Danny indicated, it depends on where you get that figure of 10,000 pounds.

[ewbldavis]

As far as easier to tow/hookup - I'll chime in.

WAY better towing IMO. We went from a 34ft. TT to a 36ft. 5er. ABSOLUTELY love how it tows. I have the Andersen hitch, so no noise or rattling to speak of. I like how the Andersen is like hooking up a TT - dropping it on a ball per se.

As far as EASE, it's comparable. Camera is worthless since tailgate is down, but I can see the ball. It's challenging because you must be dead-on, or reasonably close. This seemed easier with hitch mounted ball/camera, but I'm getting hang of it.

You likely won't regret the upgrade. We love layout and tows awesome.

[bsmith0404]

5w is much easier to hook up. There’s no weight distribution hitch spring bars so you don’t have to run the jack up and down and go through all of the extra steps, just hook up, give a tug test if you have a traditional hitch, raise the legs and you’re done.

[RoadToad]

Originally Posted by alelka

We are seriously thinking of trading in our TT and getting a 5th wheel. I hear that hooking up a 5th wheel and driving is much easier than a TT. Our tow vehicle is a 2015 F350 4X4 6.2 gasser. I believe we could tow a 5th @ 10,000 lbs. I do not know how to determine what our hitch/payload weight is, what is the formula?

Thanks!

Great BIG yes... 5er is so much easier to handle.
And much safer too.
Not prone to "whipping: caused by air buffiting.
In our 60 tears of Rv ing, we have had literally every thing from tent to Diesel pusher.
A 5th whl and a Class B make up our stable now.

[Frank G]

I had a 2013 F250 extended cab 4x4 6.2 gas and could legally scale a 13K gvw 5th wheel, modestly loaded. About 12K loaded. Point of the post, you should be able to legally scale a 13K gvw 5th wheel with your F350 4x4 gasser. Moving to a 13K gvw opens up so many more choices of 5th wheel travel trailers. A 14k gvw would probably be on the edge, and the 6.2 would not like it without the proper gears. You need to reconsider everything if you load everything down with tons of stuff and people.

[DBinSD]

We Just sold our Ram 2500 and 28’ Airstream to get a Ram 3500 and Sprinter 3531FWDEN.
So far it is WAY easier to hitch / un hitch. We had a Hensley hitch on the Airstream so it towed fantastic. The 5th wheel tows just as good but wind affects it more obviously due to side wall size differences.
For what you can tow, here is an easy way to figure it.
PAYLOAD then subtract you, wife, kids, pets, fuel, hitch, gear etc weights = Max tongue weight it can support.
Then look up specs for the models you like and look at Pin weights or tongue weight.
Our 2500 was going to be MAXED with a 2300 lb pin weight so we went to a 3500.
Your F350 should have around 3900 lb payload and Max 5th wheel weight of 12,500 lbs. look up payload for your year f350.
Happy hunting !

[wiredgeorge]

The OP hasn't been back since posting her question so likely not seeing all this fine advice. Last login Oct 25th.

[dutchmensport]

I am going to be the Devil's Advocate here and say, after having no other experience towing and using trailers that were "bumper pull" and travel trailers (my parents had), plus my own (3 of them), at age 63, I purchased my first fifth wheel.

Now, everything, and everyone always said a 5er is soooooo much easier than a travel trailer. And after owning the 5er for 1 week, I was kicking myself for not getting another trailer.

I had a lot of problems. First and foremost, my truck is a long bed dually and there is no way on earth i could reach over the bed of the truck to reach the 5er hitch to hitch and unhitch, or reach the floor for the break away cable. And climbing on the tires was not an option. I was 63 now, not 36, and an artificial knee recently implanted.

Problem was solved by carrying a 4 foot step ladder that never leaves the bed of the truck now.

Next was aligning truck and trailer to hitch. Unlike a travel trailer, the truck and 5er have to be somewhat in line to hitch right. Yes, I could hitch at an angle, but with a trailer 41.5 feet long, when taking off, the rear swing of the trailer would hit everything in it's path. It just took practice, practice, practice to know the limitations of the angle both can be.

Next obstacle ... with a travel trailer, the trailer can lean one way, the tow vehicle the other at quite an angle. With a 5er, you run the risk of slamming into the bed-rails. With only about 6 inches of clearance, there's not much forgivness in how much angle the two can be from each other without making contact. And one day, it did happen, cracking the lower part of my front cap.

Then the Lippert 6 point leveling system was a beast to learn. All my previous travel trailers were always manually level with lumber under the tires. It took a year of constant stroke errors and figuring all that out before things started making sense.

Towing is absolutely NO different, and I cannot say the 5er tows better than any of my travel trailers. I always had 3500 dually's, always used weight distribution hitches with sway bars, and my last hitch was an Equal-i-zer 4 point. I never, never, never had issues towing the trailer. It was always stable, comfortable and rock solid. When towing the 5er, there is NO difference. It's rock solid too. Very comfortable towing.

Backing the 5er was a nightmare. Everyone made it sound so simple. Oh No! After 60 years of bumper pull trailer backing, a 41.5 foot 5er WAS WAY different. Again, it took a year before I had the "Ah-Ha" moment and it finally clicked!

For, both are an equal wash. With the right tow vehicle, both are equal.

In one situation, I had to handle weight distribution bars standing on the ground. In the other, I have to climb a ladder to reach the hitch to release the jaws, and attach the break away cable.

One IS NOT easier than the other. They are just different, and with the right tow vehicle and hitching equipment, they both tow equally as nice.

We've had our Montana Fifth Wheel for 2 years now. She's traveled thousands and thousands of miles now. And to say it's "better" than the travel trailers.... no... I cannot say that.

Now, differences in room, space, slide outs, storage, steps, comfort, the amount of propane to heat, residential refrigerator vs RV refrigerator, 50 amp vs 30 am, and stuff like that,.... oh, there's differences all right! But that's another book I'd have to write.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by dutchmensport

I am going to be the Devil's Advocate here and say, after having no other experience towing and using trailers that were "bumper pull" and travel trailers (my parents had), plus my own (3 of them), at age 63, I purchased my first fifth wheel.

Now, everything, and everyone always said a 5er is soooooo much easier than a travel trailer. And after owning the 5er for 1 week, I was kicking myself for not getting another trailer.

I had a lot of problems. First and foremost, my truck is a long bed dually and there is no way on earth i could reach over the bed of the truck to reach the 5er hitch to hitch and unhitch, or reach the floor for the break away cable. And climbing on the tires was not an option. I was 63 now, not 36, and an artificial knee recently implanted.

Problem was solved by carrying a 4 foot step ladder that never leaves the bed of the truck now.

Next was aligning truck and trailer to hitch. Unlike a travel trailer, the truck and 5er have to be somewhat in line to hitch right. Yes, I could hitch at an angle, but with a trailer 41.5 feet long, when taking off, the rear swing of the trailer would hit everything in it's path. It just took practice, practice, practice to know the limitations of the angle both can be.

Next obstacle ... with a travel trailer, the trailer can lean one way, the tow vehicle the other at quite an angle. With a 5er, you run the risk of slamming into the bed-rails. With only about 6 inches of clearance, there's not much forgivness in how much angle the two can be from each other without making contact. And one day, it did happen, cracking the lower part of my front cap.

Then the Lippert 6 point leveling system was a beast to learn. All my previous travel trailers were always manually level with lumber under the tires. It took a year of constant stroke errors and figuring all that out before things started making sense.

Towing is absolutely NO different, and I cannot say the 5er tows better than any of my travel trailers. I always had 3500 dually's, always used weight distribution hitches with sway bars, and my last hitch was an Equal-i-zer 4 point. I never, never, never had issues towing the trailer. It was always stable, comfortable and rock solid. When towing the 5er, there is NO difference. It's rock solid too. Very comfortable towing.

Backing the 5er was a nightmare. Everyone made it sound so simple. Oh No! After 60 years of bumper pull trailer backing, a 41.5 foot 5er WAS WAY different. Again, it took a year before I had the "Ah-Ha" moment and it finally clicked!

For, both are an equal wash. With the right tow vehicle, both are equal.

In one situation, I had to handle weight distribution bars standing on the ground. In the other, I have to climb a ladder to reach the hitch to release the jaws, and attach the break away cable.

One IS NOT easier than the other. They are just different, and with the right tow vehicle and hitching equipment, they both tow equally as nice.

We've had our Montana Fifth Wheel for 2 years now. She's traveled thousands and thousands of miles now. And to say it's "better" than the travel trailers.... no... I cannot say that.

Now, differences in room, space, slide outs, storage, steps, comfort, the amount of propane to heat, residential refrigerator vs RV refrigerator, 50 amp vs 30 am, and stuff like that,.... oh, there's differences all right! But that's another book I'd have to write.

Wow! You're comments echo the thoughts dw and I were having this morning (after we walked thru the new renovations at the park we always stay at). I loved my bumper pulls and never wanted a 5th wheel. With inadequate wdh/sway I had issues for some time but after landing on the Equalizer and getting it tuned in I can say that my last combo (tt/equalizer) towed just about as good as the rig I have now.

I think the bigger thing is although they tow pretty much the same (set up correctly and right combo) it's the "other" benefits a fiver offers. But I will say that backing the 5th wheel is not like a bumper pull. After towing boats for many years and my bumper pulls I had that down. The 5th wheel is a bit different and takes some adjustment.

[crowbar]

I've gone the opposite way of most of the guys on this forum. I went from towing a 5er with an F350 to towing a bumper pull with an F150. The reason was to have the ability to put my Harley in the box of my truck and take it with me. The 5er was nice to tow and back up but with the right hitch, I've gotten quite comfortable with my new setup. Whatever you choose, just give it some time and it'll work for you. Happy camping.