Solar or generator?

[BendingBlue]

Hello all,
I'm a first-timer when it comes to 5th wheels. I plan on purchasing a Montana High Country 330. I have several questions regarding auxiliary power. Thanks in advance.


(1) Is it overkill to have both solar and a propane generator for boondocking?


(2) If so, does solar provide enough power provided the environmental conditions are favorable?


(3) The 5th wheel I'm looking at is an on-the-lot model and is "solar-ready". Can a fairly handy man install the panels and controller or is this best left up to a qualified technician?
__________________
Non nobis solum nati sumus - We are not born for ourselves alone.

Mark Edwards

[Keystoned]

Welcome to the forum...
1. depends on what you need to power
2. depends on the system you install
3. not sure what solar ready means, sometimes it's just a plug for a small suitcase style panel
For instance, we have a 200w system with 2 smallish AGM batteries which usually works fine for us the way we camp. Cloudy days or shady parking reduces the charging, so another 100w might be in order. Snow just kills the charging until it is removed.
You need to calculate your power requirements first and also decide if like the sound of a generator out in nature...

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by BendingBlue

Hello all,
I'm a first-timer when it comes to 5th wheels. I plan on purchasing a Montana High Country 330. I have several questions regarding auxiliary power. Thanks in advance.


(1) Is it overkill to have both solar and a propane generator for boondocking?
Not overkill but LP generators use a LOT of propane. Define "boon-docking", is that one night? one week? one month?

(2) If so, does solar provide enough power provided the environmental conditions are favorable?
Enough power for what? Define what you want to run and for how long. Run the air conditioner no, watch a little tv yes, you first need a lot more battery storage than the dealer gives you.

(3) The 5th wheel I'm looking at is an on-the-lot model and is "solar-ready". Can a fairly handy man install the panels and controller or is this best left up to a qualified technician? Depends on your definition of "handy" and again what you want to do as that will define the requirement for the install, i.e. one solar panel to charge your battery, or an array of solar panels to charge a bank of batteries and run some appliances. More info is needed before anyone can offer advice. .
__________________
Non nobis solum nati sumus - We are not born for ourselves alone.

Mark Edwards

See comments in red.

[LewisB]

^^^What the other guys have said.

We have 2 Group 24 batteries, a 190W solar system, a 2000W inverter and a 5500W Onan gasoline generator (built in, quiet). This combination works well for us. We can watch a movie at night, power all the needed lights, etc using our batteries and the inverter. Typically, I will run the generator an hour or so after dark in the evening. In the daytime on a good solar day, it will pretty much replenish the batteries.

On cold nights, not so much - the heater will pull the batteries down and, of course, solar does no good. I set the generator to auto-start based on battery voltage, and on a very cold night it may run for an hour.

So, we really like the combination of having all of this equipment. If we wanted to go more than a day without the generator, however, we would need a lot more battery and solar power. If you set reasonable expectations for your boon docking, are willing to use a generator some, and can afford the solar, I'd recommend you do it all. We had the dealer install the solar system on our trailer when it was new - I thought they would do a better job then me "learning" how to do it - and it was ready to go off the lot.

Lastly, I really like the solar system when the trailer is parked in our back yard - it keeps the batteries charged and I don't have to have it plugged in or worry about it. Worth it to me just for that!

[Canonman]

For us, we have 2, 6vdc batteries that we keep topped off with a 200w portable/suitcase solar kit. We also carry a 3kw generator (we had this prior to the solar kit) that we use if we need to run the A/C or during extended periods of cloudy/rainy weather. For the most part the solar kit is all we need. We run our lights as much as we want in the evening. Watch a movie, use the furnace if needed and the 200w solar keeps up just fine. Using a portable kit eliminates the installation question. Just "plug and play". We installed a small 750w inverter to run the TV and charge the cell phones and lap top. Everything else is 12vdc. Our typical outings are 5 to 10 days. I think last year we might have run the generator 3 or 4 times for a couple hours during the heat of the day.
https://www.zampsolar.com/portable-kits
https://www.renogy.com/200-watt-12-v...caAqmwEALw_wcB

[BendingBlue]

Thanks all for the info.


Propane generators: I thought they had a smaller carbon footprint but they are so expensive! I guess a gas generator will do.


Boon-docking: Don't really know yet how long that style of camping would occur. Probably a week or less.


Solar panels: I'm getting the idea that solar won't run everything so I'm probably looking at enough solar panels to charge a battery array and run some appliances. I'm considering Jaboni products: a 300 watt solar panel and a 30 amp MPPT Solar Charge controller. I don't know if batteries are included.


Handy: I try to 'measure twice and cut once' but it doesn't always work out that way. I have minimal electrical knowledge - just what I read in books.


Power requirement calculations: I filled out the Jaboni worksheet but clearly way overestimated the total amp hours per week.


Brad: good point about keeping the batteries charged. By the way, I lived in Tucson for about 10 years back in the late 70's, early 80's. Grad of the U of A. Love my time there and I hope to get back there soon with my 5th wheel in tow!

[BendingBlue]

Originally Posted by Canonman

For us, we have 2, 6vdc batteries that we keep topped off with a 200w portable/suitcase solar kit. We also carry a 3kw generator (we had this prior to the solar kit) that we use if we need to run the A/C or during extended periods of cloudy/rainy weather. For the most part the solar kit is all we need. We run our lights as much as we want in the evening. Watch a movie, use the furnace if needed and the 200w solar keeps up just fine. Using a portable kit eliminates the installation question. Just "plug and play". We installed a small 750w inverter to run the TV and charge the cell phones and lap top. Everything else is 12vdc. Our typical outings are 5 to 10 days. I think last year we might have run the generator 3 or 4 times for a couple hours during the heat of the day.
https://www.zampsolar.com/portable-kits
https://www.renogy.com/200-watt-12-v...caAqmwEALw_wcB

Thanks. Hadn't considered the portable but will check it out!

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by BendingBlue

Thanks all for the info.


Propane generators: I thought they had a smaller carbon footprint but they are so expensive! I guess a gas generator will do.


Boon-docking: Don't really know yet how long that style of camping would occur. Probably a week or less.


Solar panels: I'm getting the idea that solar won't run everything so I'm probably looking at enough solar panels to charge a battery array and run some appliances. I'm considering Jaboni products: a 300 watt solar panel and a 30 amp MPPT Solar Charge controller. I don't know if batteries are included.


Handy: I try to 'measure twice and cut once' but it doesn't always work out that way. I have minimal electrical knowledge - just what I read in books.


Power requirement calculations: I filled out the Jaboni worksheet but clearly way overestimated the total amp hours per week.


Brad: good point about keeping the batteries charged. By the way, I lived in Tucson for about 10 years back in the late 70's, early 80's. Grad of the U of A. Love my time there and I hope to get back there soon with my 5th wheel in tow!

Not trying to be a jerk but if your concerned about carbon foot print sell the rig, buy a Prius and back pack.

I would suggest you try boon-docking in the driveway first and do not use the bathroom in the house. That will give you a "feel" for how quickly the battery will be depleted,the water will be depleted, and the how quickly the tanks will fill. An inexpensive 300 watt inverter will power a tv and DVD player a few hours a night with using a few led interior lights. Replacing the battery with 2 6 vdc batteries and a 200 watt solar panel will work to keep the battery replenished with judicial use i.e. no furnace use.

If you want to "use everything" and play mountain cabin with all the comforts of home then you will be running a generator with a gas can nearby. If you like to read there is a plethora of information on solar, boon-docking, and the electrical requirements to support your desires on the internet and here.

[BendingBlue]

Marshall, good points. Thanks.

[Canonman]

We've not found running appliances like the coffee pot, toaster, electric griddle etc at all necessary. We percolate coffee on the stove top, toast bread and bagels on a griddle and basically do a lot of cooking outside on the bar-b-que. Not sure what appliances you are referring to, but there are usually work-arounds to make dry camping/boon-docking very comfortable.

[Big 417]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Not trying to be a jerk but if your concerned about carbon foot print sell the rig, buy a Prius and back pack.

I would suggest you try boon-docking in the driveway first and do not use the bathroom in the house. That will give you a "feel" for how quickly the battery will be depleted,the water will be depleted, and the how quickly the tanks will fill. An inexpensive 300 watt inverter will power a tv and DVD player a few hours a night with using a few led interior lights. Replacing the battery with 2 6 vdc batteries and a 200 watt solar panel will work to keep the battery replenished with judicial use i.e. no furnace use.

If you want to "use everything" and play mountain cabin with all the comforts of home then you will be running a generator with a gas can nearby. If you like to read there is a plethora of information on solar, boon-docking, and the electrical requirements to support your desires on the internet and here.

Nail on head!!!

[BendingBlue]

Canonman, I found your reply very helpful. I am beginning to have a more realistic expectation of what camping will be like with a 5th wheel. Based on your information I have decided to purchase a portable solar panel and an inverter generator, both just large enough to assist with the power needs of the 5th wheel, not completely substitute for them. I haven't landed on brand yet, but I will purchase a 200 watt Solar Panel and a 4KW - 6KW inverter generator.
Thanks again for your helpful information.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by BendingBlue

Canonman, I found your reply very helpful. I am beginning to have a more realistic expectation of what camping will be like with a 5th wheel. Based on your information I have decided to purchase a portable solar panel and an inverter generator, both just large enough to assist with the power needs of the 5th wheel, not completely substitute for them. I haven't landed on brand yet, but I will purchase a 200 watt Solar Panel and a 4KW - 6KW inverter generator.
Thanks again for your helpful information.

I think you're oversizing a "just large enough to assist with the power needs" objective. A 200 watt solar panel is not going to be "easy to handle, especially in windy conditions" and a 4KW-6KW inverter generator is going to be "way too heavy and bulky for one person to handle, not to mention carrying gas or propane to operate such a large generator.

If you're looking "to just assist power" get a 2KW inverter generator (if you don't need air conditioning or a 3.5KW if you do need air.

If you intend to "operate everything with no regard to others in the campground" you'll not be a "neighborly camper"... Portable generators, regardless of brand, are loud enough to have created "generator hours" at nearly all campgrounds, so even with "sufficient generator size" to power the entire trailer, you'll not be "permitted to use it" and, forget air conditioning with solar, that's just not a feasible power source without investing as much or more than the cost of the trailer you're installing it on.

For most people, giving up "some of the at home conveniences" is a part of "boondocking"....

[Canonman]

Glad I could help.
Zamp, Go Power and Renogy are solar brands I could recommend. All have 200w portable kits that include the controller. Any of these will recharge your batteries with a good days worth of sunshine. A plus for the portable set up is no installation issues. And, you can reposition them to follow the sun
A 3kw or 3.5kw generator will run the 13,500 BTU A/C units. Not sure if you have a 5k BTU A/C. These generators start getting a bit heavy, 70+ pounds if that's any issue for you.
We really enjoy dry camping/boon-docking rather than being limited to the "side-to-slide, nose-to-tail confines of the usual RV Park.
Enjoy!!

[bbells]

If you want AC solar won't be enough. Otherwise it is fine for boondocking. I have 250 watts on my ice fishing house and camper and have never run the batteries very far down. Anyone with a mechanical ability can install solar. IMHO, using the permabond roof tape with flexible panels is a better way to go if you are nervous about drilling holes in your roof.

[sonofcy]

Originally Posted by BendingBlue

Thanks all for the info.


Propane generators: I thought they had a smaller carbon footprint but they are so expensive! I guess a gas generator will do.


Boon-docking: Don't really know yet how long that style of camping would occur. Probably a week or less.


Solar panels: I'm getting the idea that solar won't run everything so I'm probably looking at enough solar panels to charge a battery array and run some appliances. I'm considering Jaboni products: a 300 watt solar panel and a 30 amp MPPT Solar Charge controller. I don't know if batteries are included.


Handy: I try to 'measure twice and cut once' but it doesn't always work out that way. I have minimal electrical knowledge - just what I read in books.


Power requirement calculations: I filled out the Jaboni worksheet but clearly way overestimated the total amp hours per week.


Brad: good point about keeping the batteries charged. By the way, I lived in Tucson for about 10 years back in the late 70's, early 80's. Grad of the U of A. Love my time there and I hope to get back there soon with my 5th wheel in tow!

There is a very handy website that your tax dollars pays for that records the solar power available all over the country and even in Canada.
If you are only using a 300w panel (a mistake by the way) then in Phoenix in July/August you will get 46-47 kWh of electricity per month. That is just enough to power one of those residential refrigerators if you have one, otherwise it will power your entire RV with very little generator backup. Of course NO AC so that might be a problem.
If you stay in the North East the solar drops to 43 to 38 kWh so more generator time needed and if the furnace runs that will deplete your batteries fast.
That 300W panel is a house panel. Finding a place for 2 of them without shadows is a possibility but not easy, switch to 5'x2' 170W panels and 4 of them along the south side of your roof will work great. Made in Bend OR.

[Sokcap48]

I had a propane gen In my first fifth wheel ever again, use to much propane, noisy, and vibrate. We spend time in the winter in AZ. I have both solar four 100 watt panels and can go up to 665 in panels, four 6 volt T 245 Trojan Batteries, I also have a portable gas gen, 3500 for times when there is not enough sun for a few days to run what we want. But use sparingly. Have auto transfer switch, 2000 watt inverter and a 60 amp controller both Renogy. Hope this helps.

[WJQ]

I prepared a detailed post but my PC crashed and I lost it. For now, start with a Honda 2200 watt generator. It is enough for everything but your air conditioner. Don't think about a solar system until you use your 5th he'll for a few trips or maybe a whole season.

Nearly all of the responses above are useful and valid. I have both and just finished my solar install on my second RV. The solar system is an elegant, quiet power solution but takes much more design thinking for a a good install. You can do it and if we can get in contact, I will offer my experience on two installs.

Enjoy camping and the Honda will be a good future backup and will provide all you need in the interim until you get a properly designed solar system installed.

You can have my experience if you are patient.

[chuckster57]

I have installed too many solar systems and gens to count, With some planning you can install solar, charger/inverter and the correct battery array to power everything except the AC for a LONG time. I installed a pair of 200W panels, and a 200W inverter/100W charger in a Class C motorhome with a pair of gp 27 batteries. Customer never ran the gen the whole season and actually ran the AC. I don't know how long it ran, but I wouldn't do it.