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Old 08-21-2014, 02:40 PM   #1
GMcKenzie
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I think my neighbour is nuts.

Staring out my door looking at a 3 axle Allstream over 30 feet being towed by a Buick Enclave. He has a Hensley, but no way is this setup safe.

Hope I am not on the highway when he is.
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Old 08-21-2014, 03:16 PM   #2
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You see it all the time and wonder how they make it to where they are going.
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Old 08-21-2014, 04:33 PM   #3
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The salesman told him it would be fine.
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Old 08-21-2014, 06:03 PM   #4
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"I will never be pulling it up hill or with full tanks" LOL
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Old 08-22-2014, 04:34 AM   #5
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Hey the load is spread out over 3 axles and I put everything in the back of the camper so my hitch weight is 50 pounds jeesh what are you all worried about? WELL YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID just hope no one gets hurt when the inevitable happens.
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:30 AM   #6
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Wish there were pics!
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:48 AM   #7
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Hope this link works:

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...lation-383778/
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:15 AM   #8
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Let me know which road he will be on as I will not...
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:27 AM   #9
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I would like to know where the legality lies in a situation such as this. I recall attending a show in our area a few years back. Our area Airstream delaer had a large Airstream hooked up the back of an Intrepid using a Hensley hitch assy. I purposely asked the dealer if in fact the car was rated to tow this particular TT. His responce was the car provides the pulling power, the hitch provides the stability and the trailer provides the braking power. I have a close lawyer friend who I questioned who would be at fault if in fact the person driving the car was to wipe out an on coming family in the event the Intrepid got away from the guy hauling the Airstream. His responce was something to the effect, "he would name everyone in the law suit starting from the driver of the car, the company who sold the trailer, the salesman who sold the hitch right down the kid who installed the hitch.
Food for thought.
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:06 PM   #10
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I think my neighbors are nuts ... and they don't even own a trailer.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:06 PM   #11
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If involved in a major crash the driver and others will hear words like, illegal, stupid, careless, reckless, negligent. Spoken by lawyers and judges and each word involves money. Those with the biggest pockets get to hear those words first.
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Old 08-23-2014, 04:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAD View Post
You can be totally lawful and still be negligent/stupid/careless etc....

But in what is described in the first post, what would be illegal?
Depends on where you live or even where it happens.

Not knowing anything about the trailer it is hard to tell but assumptions are it weighs a lot more then the tow rating of the car hauling it.

In Canada the insurance companies are starting to check this when an accident happens. Someone runs into you, their fault, their insurance company will ask to have your vehicle setup reviewed for safe operation. If you are over the weight limit, regardless of what additions for in Canada additions are not recognized to increase vehicle safety standards as set forth by the manufacturer. Over the weight limit the other insurance company will claim to your insurance company that it was dangerous operation of a motor vehicle on your part and will ask for you to be charged and placed at fault. Your insurance company will be more then happy to accept this as in your fine print you will find that dangerous operation of a motor vehicle voids your contract with them.

This is where it gets a little cloudy. Insurance companies at times will pay for the other vehicle involved and sometimes they will not. If they do pay they will sue you to recover all cost plus interest. If they do not pay you will be sued by the people who hit you backed with the information and support of their insurance company. The arguments have been the insurance company assumes the risk associated with you as a driver and therefore responsible. You would need to pay a lawyer to fight that for you though.

It's a world of what ifs and maybes, I do know if I am ever hit by a half ton hauling a fifth wheel, they best be legal in the terms set forth by their manufacture.
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Old 08-23-2014, 06:04 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x96mnn View Post
Depends on where you live or even where it happens.

Not knowing anything about the trailer it is hard to tell but assumptions are it weighs a lot more then the tow rating of the car hauling it.

In Canada the insurance companies are starting to check this when an accident happens. Someone runs into you, their fault, their insurance company will ask to have your vehicle setup reviewed for safe operation. If you are over the weight limit, regardless of what additions for in Canada additions are not recognized to increase vehicle safety standards as set forth by the manufacturer. Over the weight limit the other insurance company will claim to your insurance company that it was dangerous operation of a motor vehicle on your part and will ask for you to be charged and placed at fault. Your insurance company will be more then happy to accept this as in your fine print you will find that dangerous operation of a motor vehicle voids your contract with them.

This is where it gets a little cloudy. Insurance companies at times will pay for the other vehicle involved and sometimes they will not. If they do pay they will sue you to recover all cost plus interest. If they do not pay you will be sued by the people who hit you backed with the information and support of their insurance company. The arguments have been the insurance company assumes the risk associated with you as a driver and therefore responsible. You would need to pay a lawyer to fight that for you though.

It's a world of what ifs and maybes, I do know if I am ever hit by a half ton hauling a fifth wheel, they best be legal in the terms set forth by their manufacture.
While I agree with you in part, your last statement is a bit "out there". If you're hit by a half ton hauling a fifth wheel "out on the road" and he's operating unsafely, I agree with you. But, if by chance, he happens to hit your "PARKED" trailer in a storage lot while parking his fifth wheel next to yours, the size of the tow vehicle has little (if anything) to do with causing or being a part of the cause for the accident.

Many of us have been "preaching" adequate (properly rated) tow vehicles for a long, long time. With as much litigation as we've all seen in recent years, it's not surprising to hear of insurance companies suing their customers to "protect the profit".

I do, by the way, remember an Airstream advertisement from years ago that showed a 25+ foot long Airstream being towed by a Volkswagen bug. The "gist" of the ad was "how easy it can be towed." I don't think you'll find that kind of advertising in today's RV world, there's too many people who have "lost the art of using common sense" and might take the picture a bit too "literally" and try to emulate what they see, not the concept of what's being said.

Maybe more people should have paid attention in math class and learned how to apply that knowledge "in the real world" ???
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Old 08-23-2014, 06:16 AM   #14
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[QUOTE=JRTJH;141085]While I agree with you in part, your last statement is a bit "out there". If you're hit by a half ton hauling a fifth wheel "out on the road" and he's operating unsafely, I agree with you. But, if by chance, he happens to hit your "PARKED" trailer in a storage lot while parking his fifth wheel next to yours, the size of the tow vehicle has little (if anything) to do with causing or being a part of the cause for the accident.

JRTJH

In an example, I am loaded drunk and park my car in a lot, someone runs into me it is my fault. The fact I was there loaded drunk contributed to the cause of the accident. The same would apply, if they are parking their trailer and hit my parked trailer, the fact that they are there contributes to the accident would it not? You could say a 250 truck would be the same but maybe the bigger truck would have turned different or gave a better line of sight. That would be part of an argument that could be provided by insurance companies with lawyers on staff. They do not need to prove they are right at this point, they have already proved you were in the wrong.

I agree with you, been preached and harped on 1000s of times. The issue was always there but becoming more noticeable today as with the number of RVs on the road has increased the number of questionable set ups have increased. The incidents created have the attention of insurance agencies now and it is being flagged as a "way out"

Just like having a few beers and thinking your more then safe to drive, when a person is convinced they are right, safe and not doing anything wrong.....they will continue.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:50 AM   #15
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They look like they are leaving today. He has tow mirrors on the Buick. I will try to get a picture and put it up here. Just not sure how to post one from my tablet.

The more I look at the setup, the crazier I think he is. Every way out of this campsite is a decent hill. I am in Oliver, at the bottom of a valley. Glad he is leaving well before me.
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:48 AM   #16
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While he maybe nuts, and probably over his vehicles limitations. Insurance companies will not deny his claim. They may drop him for being a risk, and if he causes injury or damage to another person or their property they can certainly use that to take him to court, he may even get a citation for it,( although I doubt most law enforcement is going to take time and pickup all the pieces and weight it.) at most he will get the standard "reckless, to fast for conditions, failure to maintain control" variety.

Having been in a highway accident (other driver at fault) while towing my RV which resulted in vehicles being towed, not one person from the police to both insurance companies I dealt with asked for any information about my RV and tow vehicle other than value. (I was within allowed weights, but not by much)

The only place I have seen this argument about insurance claims being denied and DOT stopping RV's is on rv forums. Having travelled extensively I have yet to come across or here of any of this actually occurring. Maybe I've just not been to the right places.

I'm not condoning it, but the consequence's are of the injury/damage type, not the legal/insurance type. (The latter being the least of my worries if something would happen with a person like this.)


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Old 08-23-2014, 09:04 AM   #17
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SAd,
I was breaking one of my rules assuming the TV is grossy overloaded. My point is maybe some do not know the details that police go thru regarding a major crash involveing death or likey death by the offending vehicle/driver. All vehicles rolling on the roadways are required to stop within a certain distance, be able to be controlled by the driver to proceed on the road in a safe manor. So, cops will check brakes, tires, weights, sterring, lights, speeds etc etc. In the end the reports can read, the driver could not stop due to improper/overweight vehicle(listing all problems) . Vehicle should have stopped in (blank) amount of feet traveling at (blank) speed but, could not striking the car and drivng over it crushing it. Than the blame game starts in court. What was said about lawyers going after everone involved is very true, just listen to some of the big cases in the media, about who is being sued.
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:11 AM   #18
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Hoojs,

Things change over time, I recall when I was younger getting stopped with my parents in traffic stops when seat belts and open liquor would not have been questioned now they are. Insurance companies are starting to ask for waivers to be signed with trailer insurance that you will operate with in the standards set forth by the manufactures.

All I can state is I know if I had of run into you, my fault or not, your setup would have been checked and I think this will become more standard with education.

Here is my issue, be it a drunk driver failing to react to a turn due to being imparted slams into my family and kills my 9 month old, of some clown in a rv that gets pushed through the turn by their oversized load slams into us and kills my 9 month old....my pain and life will be change the same...I will fight for the same justice.

Again just my views...maybe the thread should read x96 is nuts
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x96mnn View Post
Hoojs,

Things change over time, I recall when I was younger getting stopped with my parents in traffic stops when seat belts and open liquor would not have been questioned now they are. Insurance companies are starting to ask for waivers to be signed with trailer insurance that you will operate with in the standards set forth by the manufactures.

All I can state is I know if I had of run into you, my fault or not, your setup would have been checked and I think this will become more standard with education.

Here is my issue, be it a drunk driver failing to react to a turn due to being imparted slams into my family and kills my 9 month old, of some clown in a rv that gets pushed through the turn by their oversized load slams into us and kills my 9 month old....my pain and life will be change the same...I will fight for the same justice.
Again just my views...maybe the thread should read x96 is nuts
In either of the above situations, no matter "how much you make him suffer financially" the unfortunate reality that your 9 month old is no longer in your arms is the reality that won't change. "After the fact" lawsuits can "reward" suffering and loss with money, but we've yet to realize that "money after the loss" is no "reward."

We've somehow got to come to grips with the realization that personal responsibility and common sense go far to "PREVENT" a loss. Prevention, not "lawsuits after the fact" are the solution. I've no idea how we can get there, but threats of a potential lawsuit won't stop irresponsibility.

Back to the situation the OP illustrated, the "foolish camper" apparently towed that Airstream to the campground with his Buick Enclave, so let's hope he doesn't get involved in an accident and hurt someone on his way home

As Forrest Gump said, "You can't fix stupid."
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:46 AM   #20
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Food for thought, true stories:

All the "talk" about weights and the cops aint gonna check? STAY OUT OF CALIFORNIA then.

1st story: My wifes sister has a daughter and son inlaw that go to a popular beach with lots of toy haulers. He is way under his limit but watched as CHP weighed a truck in front of him with a portable scale. He was OVER the rear axle rating, and YUP THEY TOOK his trailer. He had to pay impound, tow and storage fees. He wasn't allowed to retrieve it until he showed up with a TV that was rated for his trailer.

2nd story: a couple of months ago a customer pulled into the dealership with his fiver hooked onto a 3/4 ton SRW truck. He was clearly upset and when asked why, related his story. He was travelling down a road ( not designated a highway) and was pulled over. The LEO walked to the front of his trailer and after noting the GVWR asked him for his Travel Trailer endorsement ( anything over 10,000 and under 15,000). when he said he didn't have one, he was ordered to unhook and leave his trailer until he could produce the endorsement.

I've been towing fifth wheels since 1989, and yeah us RV's never even got a second look. Now that there seems to be lots of HEAVY trailers being towed by LIGHT vehicles we are coming under some serious looks. CHP does have a fleet of trucks with portable scales, and they DO randomly stop people. Point being, if your legal then no worries.......
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