Build & Price ???

[peanut]

Wife fell in love with the Cougar Half Ton 24RDS fifth wheel and I see it in our future very soon. We would be upgrading from a 21' TT.

Is there anywhere to "build & price" Keystone units online? I would like to get a ball park figure of what the different options cost.

I am particularly interested in the SolarFlex options. The dealer at the RV show quoted $1500 to upgrade to the 400i package (with 2 GC batteries) and it sounded good at the time. Once I got home and researched it on the Keystone website, I learned the 400i package DOES NOT include an inverted microwave outlet. Very disappointing. So the obvious question is how much more for the 600i-L package which does include the micro, a larger inverter AND a big lithium battery?

The other options listed for this model that we are interested in include:
slide-topper package
towing with Confidence package (Goodyear Endurance tires)
Theater Seats
(2) 100AH Lithium batteries (if we go with the 400i package)

Are there any price sheets anywhere for potential buyers?

[JRTJH]

From what I can tell, Keystone publishes a MSRP for each trailer. It is a "recommended MSRP" rather than a "window sticker like an automobile". There is, to my knowledge, no window sticker from the factory and every dealership "prints their own MSRP sticker" which is usually laid on the galley countertop or taped to a cupboard door. I've seen the same trailer with the same options at two or three dealerships and each of them had different MSRP stickers. Some vary by as much as $8000 to $15000, depending on the model trailer and the "price range" of the brand.

About the "best you can do" is talk to different dealerships and get "their itemized price" on the trailer and options you want. You'll probably find, if you search long enough, a trailer with an i-600 system sitting on a lot. If you do, and if it's been sitting there for a long time, that specific trailer will likely be "cheaper" than ordering one from that same dealer.... Pricing has a lot of factors that have to be considered. The interest on the "pack loan" (money borrowed for the dealer to buy the trailer from Keystone), the length of time it's been sitting (supply and demand), the popularity of that specific model, the time of year (spring demand is greater than fall/winter demand) and even the month (introduction of the next year models)....

But, as for finding an "online price listing of optional MSRP pricing"... I've never seen one anywhere.

Here's one "magazine article" on the solar-flex systems: https://www.rv.com/rv/trending-rvs/k...ard-equipment/

They report the i400 as a $2250 upgrade, the i-600 as a $12000 upgrade and the i-1200 (available only on the Montana line) as a $19000 upgrade... You can buy a Champion 2200 watt generator and a "bucketload of gas" for $12,000....

[wrvond]

Every 24RDS I could find (not many) had the SF 200 package. I figured I could simply upgrade my new camper to the SF 400i later but I found out some important facts.
1. to have the dealer (authorized service center) upgrade me to the 400i I was quoted $5018.40 - which doesn't include the two Firefly lithium batteries. Those batteries (the green topped Firefly) were listed at $999.00 each.
2. you can purchase the Battleborn (blue top)100 Ah batteries directly from the manufacturer for $799.00 each. They have the same 10 year warranty and are the exact same battery except for the color of the battery top.
3. if your camper comes from the factory with the 400i (or better) installed, the air conditioner is powered by the inverter. If the SF 200 is upgraded to 400i (or better) by an authorized service center (dealer) the air conditioner is not connected to the inverter circuit.
I don't believe the 400i provides power to the microwave. It does provide power to the air conditioner - perhaps that's what you are thinking of?

One of the great things about the Cougar Half Ton line is that there really aren't that many "options" to choose from.
Here are your options:
1. dual pane frameless windows
2. slide toppers
3. CSA construction and seal (don't even know what that does)
4. towing with confidence package (Goodyear tires and TPMS)
5. theater seating
6. electric fireplace (mine came with - didn't realize it was an option)
7. second air conditioner
8. 12V 10.4 cf refrigerator
9. SolarFlex 400i or 600i
10. batteries

I went with theater seating, 12v refrigerator and the electric fireplace. The dealer included one lead acid battery at no charge. I can use that on my pontoon boat and install a couple Battleborn batteries and save a couple hundred dollars.

Some thoughts on ordering a camper:
Right now dealers are quoting a minimum six month wait on custom orders. I've heard of them coming in sooner, but there's no guarantee of that. If you order a custom unit now, you'll likely end up with a 2022 model delivered in September, but the manufacturers shut down in July to retool for the new model year - the 2023's should start rolling out in August this year.
2023 models are certain to cost even more.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wrvond

Every 24RDS I could find (not many) had the SF 200 package. I figured I could simply upgrade my new camper to the SF 400i later but I found out some important facts.
1. to have the dealer (authorized service center) upgrade me to the 400i I was quoted $5018.40 - which doesn't include the two Firefly lithium batteries. Those batteries (the green topped Firefly) were listed at $999.00 each.
2. you can purchase the Battleborn (blue top)100 Ah batteries directly from the manufacturer for $799.00 each. They have the same 10 year warranty and are the exact same battery except for the color of the battery top.
3. if your camper comes from the factory with the 400i (or better) installed, the air conditioner is powered by the inverter. The 400i does not include the air conditioner or the microwave on solar power. There is a "second inverter loop in the wiring, but a soft start air conditioner and a second inverter are required for that to work. If the SF 200 is upgraded to 400i (or better) by an authorized service center (dealer) the air conditioner is not connected to the inverter circuit. Only if you purchase the soft start air conditioner and the second inverter.
I don't believe the 400i provides power to the microwave. (correct) It does provide power to the air conditioner (incorret) - perhaps that's what you are thinking of?

One of the great things about the Cougar Half Ton line is that there really aren't that many "options" to choose from.
Here are your options:
1. dual pane frameless windows
2. slide toppers
3. CSA construction and seal (don't even know what that does) In the US, RVIA certification and seal are provided. If the trailer is being exported to Canada, then CSA (short for CSA Z240 RV Series Standard) is an optional item for Canadian buyers
4. towing with confidence package (Goodyear tires and TPMS)
5. theater seating
6. electric fireplace (mine came with - didn't realize it was an option)
7. second air conditioner
8. 12V 10.4 cf refrigerator
9. SolarFlex 400i or 600i
10. batteries

I went with theater seating, 12v refrigerator and the electric fireplace. The dealer included one lead acid battery at no charge. I can use that on my pontoon boat and install a couple Battleborn batteries and save a couple hundred dollars.

Some thoughts on ordering a camper:
Right now dealers are quoting a minimum six month wait on custom orders. I've heard of them coming in sooner, but there's no guarantee of that. If you order a custom unit now, you'll likely end up with a 2022 model delivered in September, but the manufacturers shut down in July to retool for the new model year - the 2023's should start rolling out in August this year.
2023 models are certain to cost even more. Keystone doesn't "shut down to retool". What happens, sometime in April/May (depending on the brand line and orders) the assembly line will start applying 2023 VIN and weight stickers to trailers as they are built. ALL of the 2022 furniture, appliances and decor remaining will be used in what's called "mid year models".
Once those supplies are used, the new year components will start being phased into production. You may have a 2023 trailer with 2022 furniture, 2022 front cap, 2023 stove and 2022 refrigerator. Those trailers have caused a tremendous amount of "consternation" through the years from people who ordered a "new year trailer" but it doesn't look like the brochure...

I made some comments in red within your post to clarify some of the points you made.....

From the solarflex 400i information on the Keystone website:

SolarFlex 400i is the ultimate platform to grow with you. A second roof port, prep for an additional charge controller, as well as prep to invert the main air conditioner, gives owners the ability to enhance the system for serious boondocking adventures.**

*Microwave outlet is not included on the inverted circuit.

** Second inverter and compatible air conditioner required. See dealer for details.

https://www.keystonerv.com/solarflex-400i-overview

[travelin texans]

One thing you may want to consider, what tow vehicle do you have?
Typically those "1/2 ton" model 5th wheels have too heavy pin weight for a 1/2 ton truck, just a gimmicky cute name to sell rvs.
It may also be too heavy for a diesel 3/4 ton depending on options on both rv & truck.
No they are within the manufacturers max tow rating, but that number is totally meaningless in rv world, nor is the dry/shipping weight of a rv.

[wrvond]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I made some comments in red within your post to clarify some of the points you made.....

From the solarflex 400i information on the Keystone website:

SolarFlex 400i is the ultimate platform to grow with you. A second roof port, prep for an additional charge controller, as well as prep to invert the main air conditioner, gives owners the ability to enhance the system for serious boondocking adventures.**

*Microwave outlet is not included on the inverted circuit.

** Second inverter and compatible air conditioner required. See dealer for details.

https://www.keystonerv.com/solarflex-400i-overview

You’re right. What I should have said is that if you order the 400i from the factory you get the second soft start air inverter loop. That loop is not present if you upgrade the basic 200 to a 400i.

As for “shut down” all I know is in July there are precious few campers available to deliver. I simply repeated what I, as a driver, was told by people I thought knew what they were talking about. But what you are saying makes more sense to me.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wrvond

You’re right. What I should have said is that if you order the 400i from the factory you get the second soft start air inverter loop. That loop is not present if you upgrade the basic 200 to a 400i.

As for “shut down” all I know is in July there are precious few campers available to deliver. I simply repeated what I, as a driver, was told by people I thought knew what they were talking about. But what you are saying makes more sense to me.

This is from the company Human Resources employee website:

they have 2 shutdown periods per year. One week over the 4th of July & 2 weeks during Christmas/New Years and it is UNPAID.

Keystone doesn't allow employees to schedule their vacation time throughout the year. Their "management style" is that everybody takes the same vacation, the plant is "shut down" (except for skeleton security and maintenance crews). Everybody is "on vacation" during those times. Apparently Keystone's "corporate management" feels that it's better to have a "full crew every day" than to have a "couple of empty slots on the line with people on vacation while others take up that slack"....

But, in the next few weeks, the Keystone website will begin phasing in the 2023 brand line products and the "webpage downloads will start to show up as 2023 brochures/floorplans/features and at that time, the 2022 brochures will appear in the "brochure archive" link at the bottom of the website links.

It looks, to me anyway, that all of the RV manufacturers in the THOR group try to have the new model year "wrapped up and ready to start full production" when the plant reopens the monday after July 4th. Unless there's a "terrible mistake in the parts department" by that time, all of the 2022 materials, furniture, appliances and decor will have been used and the new product lines will be on the floor and being assembled. But, I've seen years when trailers being built in September still had "last year's sofa with this year's recliners".... And front caps with last years decals that don't match this years sidewall decals..... So......

Anyway, if I were buying a "new year trailer that isn't sitting on the dealer's lot for me to see, I'd wait until after summer vacation and then start looking at the dealership's new deliveries from Keystone for that brand. Once you see the "new look" on arrivals, it's pretty much "as safe as can be expected" that if you order one, it will have those features, not the previous year features..... Being as 'thrifty as they are", Keystone doesn't throw away or store 50 or 100 spare front caps or frames or sidewalls or range/ovens in a warehouse somewhere. They are sent to the line and used to build trailers...

If, in 2022, you need a 2020 front cap for an "insurance claim" (as an example) then your dealer will order it from Keystone and they will "have their contractor/supplier build one for the order"... Trekwood.com, which is the internet section of Tiara RV Sales parts department, is located in Elkhart, IN, and is who buys much of the "leftover parts" from Keystone. Other "RV salvage companies" around that area buy surplus RV equipment from all the RV plants in the area.

During the vacation shutdown, you will see trailerloads of spare parts being towed from Keystone and Dutchman by those surplus RV dealers.

[wrvond]

Great information! ������

[bgrhrdt]

Something else to consider. The steps to upstairs bed and bath are blocked by the slide when it's retracted. Sometimes when traveling this can be inconvenient as you have to open the slide (at least partially) to get access upstairs. Or if you have to keep it in storage and cannot open the slide.

[KeystoneKal]

I’ve done a search for specific RVs on rvtrader.com. Most dealers provide pricing and option information and photos of each unit. I’m surprised to see discounts on the pricing of many units. The shortage must be over. Local dealers appear to have lots of inventory.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by KeystoneKal

I’ve done a search for specific RVs on rvtrader.com. Most dealers provide pricing and option information and photos of each unit. I’m surprised to see discounts on the pricing of many units. The shortage must be over. Local dealers appear to have lots of inventory.

The shortage isn't over. What you see in many of those ads is a price for the trailer. When you inquire about an "out the door price" they typically add the delivery charge, prep charges, tax, registration and a handling charge if you're "instate" and a "processing charge" if you're an out of state buyer....

At most of those "internet dealerships, what you see listed is their MSRP (fictional numbers) and their "discount" (dollars off the fictional MSRP to make the deal look good to someone that's "tire kicking")...

If you email them asking for an "out the door price" don't be surprised if it's several thousand more than what you see in the online website listing...

Here's the "quote from the small print" from one RV Trader Cougar advertisement. I bolded the part that "gives them their out"... Note the very last sentence. I've heard of buyers who agree to purchase a specific trailer, get to the dealer's lot, it's been sold and they've substituted a similar trailer. Only problem is few, if any of the optional equipment is in the substituted trailer, but if you don't follow the last sentence below, you'll still be charged for everything the other trailer had on it that's missing from the one they're trying to sell you. BUYER BEWARE !!!!!

"We make every effort to present information that is accurate. However, it is based on data provided by the vehicle manufacturer and/or other sources and therefore exact configuration, color, specifications & accessories should be used as a guide only and are not guaranteed. We are not liable for any inaccuracies, claims or losses of any nature. Inventory is subject to prior sale and prices are subject to change without notice and cannot be combined with any other offer(s). The price for listed vehicles as equipped does not include other charges such as: License, Title, Registration Fees, State or Local Taxes, Smog Fees, Credit Investigation, Optional Credit Insurance, Physical Damage of Liability Insurance, Delivery Fees, Finance and/or Documentation Fees. Any and all differences must be addressed prior to the sale of this vehicle."

[MikesKeystone]

Originally Posted by peanut

I am particularly interested in the SolarFlex options. The dealer at the RV show quoted $1500 to upgrade to the 400i package (with 2 GC batteries) and it sounded good at the time.

That's well below the cost of the equipment. I'd love to pay that!

[jsb5717]

Have you looked at this site? It gives you some build options. I'm not sure how the prices translate into what you would actually pay at your dealer of choice

https://www.keystonerv.com/build-my-...h-wheels/24RDS

[MikesKeystone]

My dealer wants $5,000-$6,000 installed. The website price might be factory installed, where there's little additional labor on top of the 200w package?