It's Just Growing Pains

[JRTJH]

I initially posted this in another thread, but thought it shouldn't be a "pirate post" in someone else's thread. So, I thought I'd move it to its own place and not change the flow of another poster's comments. I've seen a lot of comments about the new DEF requirements. Some people have commented on DEF both for and against it. I see many of those comments to be very much akin to what I heard (and what I said) on a number of new technologies that have been introduced along the course of my driving career. It all started with bias ply vs those things that look like they are flat all the time (radials). Now, try to find a car or light truck with bias ply tires on it.... So, here's what I had posted somewhere else, but moved here:

I don't want this to become an argument on whether we "need" or "don't need" emissions requirements, but rather it's simply my take on how we respond to changes in technology that impacts things we think are "good enough" like they are... So, with that in mind, here's my take:

This is just an observation from an "old fart" who's been through this a couple of times before..... We can start in 1968 with the seat belts we all swore we'd never wear because we'd drown if we ran off into a river....We went through times when the safety interlocks wouldn't allow the car to even start unless the seat belt was fastened in the proper sequence. We had those motorized things along the top of the windows that pushed us into places we didn't want to be. We tore them out, fastened them behind us, ignored them as much as possible, but now? Think about the last time you drove anywhere without a seat belt.... Then back in 1972/73, it was the "big front bumper" hanging out there that everyone complained was unnatural and "I won't drive one of those ugly things"... People were buying new cars, swapping out the bumper, doing strange things to mask that ugly front end. It took several years for "general acceptance" to become the norm. Now, designs are such that a car with a 1968 "flimsy bumper" looks odd......and really, how many of us still refuse to wear a seat belt????

Right on the heels of that came the "dreaded" catalytic converter and the unleaded gas requirement. I well remember the friends who cut their catalytic converters off, welded in a piece of exhaust pipe, ran leaded gas.... Because, if you don't have lead in the gas, it'll burn the valve seats......I've had friends who insisted "the old way is best" all the way through the mid 90's before they stopped adding lead additive to their new car engines with the catalytic converter removed and stored on a shelf.

Then along came the "Ethanol mandate" and we're all still "fussing about that" and what it does to small engines, carburetors and don't forget about the storage issues with separation of the fuel. Heaven forbid we forget to drain the gas in an engine that's going to be stored for a couple of months...

All of the above are "growing pains" of new technology. Like it or not, they are pretty much here to stay.

Now, along comes DEF and emission mandates for diesel engines. Right now, we're going through the "learning curve" with this new technology. DEF is "loved or hated" depending on which side of the fence you fall on. Some guys with new diesel trucks say, "Heck, it's OK, and no hassle at all" others say, "What, not on my truck, I'll cut the da*n thing off and throw it away"

Seems to me that we're going through the 70's "acceptance period" of gas engines and catalytic converters all over again, only this time with diesels.

If you've ever started a 7.3L engine on a cold, COLD morning inside the garage without opening the door first, you know how much carbon and "goop" can get spit out of the exhaust on a well maintained truck. Imagine how much more goop gets pushed out of an improperly maintained vehicle. I know diesel pickups are only a very small "insignificant" part of the emissions problem, and I won't take sides on that argument, but we're being mandated to clean up our act. I'd rather be able to buy and drive a diesel with DEF than to be forced to watch the diesel no longer be offered in pickup trucks because it can't meet the new emission standards.

I'd say, we're having growing pains, with the new technology and like it or not, DEF and catalytic converters are here to stay, at least with this round of "new technology"...

The major manufacturers are responding to emissions mandates and working within those requirements to keep the vehicles we want on the market. DEF is a small price to pay to be able to continue to buy a 400+ HP diesel that puts out 800 FTLB of torque. Otherwise, when the current trucks finally wear out, we'll all be trying to pull our trailers with a smaller gas engine that's also "choked down with emissions gear (assuming it meets the mileage criteria component)....

I well remember vacations when I was a kid. We seemed to never make it "there and back" without spending at least one day somewhere getting a water pump, a generator, a fan belt or a tire replaced. Vehicle reliability has grown leaps and bounds since then and we all benefit from the engineering that's gone into building today's new vehicle fleet. While they are not all completely problem free, they sure beat the heck out of the cars and trucks we drove "back when they were normal without all this stuff on them"

[Ken / Claudia]

Good post, I was saying the same thing to myself that you ended with before I read it. All those 60s, 70s vehicles I had were really falling into pieces at around 100000 miles. The new stuff, some changes I like, some I do not. They all seen to drive the cost up on vehicles. My little truck, 02 ranger has 176000 miles, just normal wore out stuff, I think it will pass DEQ next month. My 01 f350 165000 miles, replaced the tranny but, other than that only normal stuff that wears out. In the 70s no one I knew would believe you could keep vehicles on the road with that mileage without going thru engines, trannys, rear ends, major stuff etc. Up til about 15 years ago the police vehicles were junk at turn in around 85000 miles, they sold for hundreds, now they go to 100000 and resell them for thousands at auctions.

[jsmith948]

Great post - couldn't agree more.
Now you can follow or drive beside a newer diesel without your eyes burning.
Ever follow a 70's era Greyhound powered by an old 8V71 Jimmy?
As much as I complain about emissions requirements, it's nice to be able to see the mountains every now and again.
When I first started driving trucks (semi's in 1978), you couldn't see the mountains from the foothill fwy (I-210) in L.A. and they were about 3 miles away.

I can also remember my 1964 Buick Special (v-6, no air, vinyl bench, 3 sp. on the column). That car cost around $2350 and was worn out at 40,000 miles.
Those were the days????

[Hansel]

I'm all for cleaning up the air quality, please don't hate me I have a 7.3L Powerstroke that I keep very well maintained, first off mine doesn't fit in the garage anyway mine doesn't smoke on start up's unless it's really cold, I will say that my back bumper does get that black stain on it from the exhaust, so I know it's not as clean burning as a newer diesel, mine did not even come with a catalytic converter

My take on the newer trucks with the DEF and the additive in the exhaust system is that the exhaust looks like a small nuclear powerplant, I don't know about the Chevy or Dodge line of truck's but the Fords have in the past had engine failure's due too the new exhaust systems' and the regen cycle burning up the exhaust valve's I don't know if these new exhaust systems are the cure for our environment but it helps, but I believe that big industry is the main issue with our sky's being hazy and not as much as our diesel pickup truck. I'm not really interested in buying a truck right now with the current new design by Ford and the new exhaust systems, but I'm sure by the time I need to replace my 7.3L they will have these issue's hammered out.

But like some things we fear change, sometimes change is good sometimes it's bad, I think we are on the right path and it's in it's early phases of development and in a few years it will get even better. I'm really interested in how the new Dodge and Ford diesel's are going to do in the F-150 and Ram 1500

[JRTJH]

Jack,

In 1971/72 I was stationed at Edwards AFB and worked at the "skunk works" in Palmdale. I drove the back roads some 25 miles every morning heading southwest to Palmdale. Almost every morning for 2 years I'd watch that "big gray blob" rise over the mountains north of LA as the wind blew the smog out of LA and into the clean air northeast of the mountains that kept it "down there" and away from our desert paradise.

About three years ago, we were in Palmdale for a reunion of some of us "old ones" that were, back then the "kids" and somehow have become the "mentors" of today's "dreamers". In the mornings, we'd sit by the pool watching the mountains as the sun started to shine onto them. They look nearly the same from the north side, and one of the first things I noticed is that "big gray blob" wasn't showing its ugly head every morning, pushing the smog from the LA side up into the desert.

So, yes, I agree with you, people on the LA side of those mountains can, finally, see the foothills from most places on that side of the mountains. It's remarkable how much clearer the north side of those mountains is, compared to how I remember them from all those drives into Palmdale.

[SAABDOCTOR]

WELL Stated John! the only new fangeled thing i fight is the EPA approved fuel cans the leak and emmit more fumes in the air than our old style cans except when we lost the cap

[JRTJH]

Same with me Barney, I spill diesel on the ground every time I refill my tractor. One of these days I'm going to just go buy a transfer tank and stick it out beside the pole barn. After all, I've got the front end loader to pick it up and put it in the truck to go refill it when it's empty. But, between time and frustration levels, so far I'm still using 6 gallon plastic cans. One of these days I'll get tired of it, but till then, I guess I've got 15 of those nozzles with the "twist thingy" that won't twist any more.....

But hey, those caps still fit my old can that doesn't have the twist thingy on it. It's the only one I use to refill my lawn mower.....

[DJ85]

As I started reading this post I started to agree that as time changes so do people's thought process. I was young in the automotive field during some of those changes. I did and still feel that taking away someone freedom of choice is not acceptable to me in anyway. In the same way breaking the law is unacceptable as well. It has always been the American way " hey if you dont like it then fiind a way to change it" I agree change is good in some cases.