Offended Members

[bsmith0404]

I just thought I’d share some observations. I was a member of a Grand Design owners group (joined that when I was selling them). They have recently banned posts about fuel prices because they tended to turn political and people were getting offended. Kinda makes me wonder if there are different types of people who buy different brands. For example, is Keystone the Ford/Chevy group and GD the Prius group? This is tongue in cheek, but I just found the difference between the two groups comical. BTW, left that group today, couldn’t deal with mods deleting posts and threatening to kick people out of the group because they can’t be adults.

[snoobler]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I just thought I’d share some observations. I was a member of a Grand Design owners group (joined that when I was selling them). They have recently banned posts about fuel prices because they tended to turn political and people were getting offended. Kinda makes me wonder if there are different types of people who buy different brands. For example, is Keystone the Ford/Chevy group and GD the Prius group? This is tongue in cheek, but I just found the difference between the two groups comical. BTW, left that group today, couldn’t deal with mods deleting posts and threatening to kick people out of the group because they can’t be adults.

Don't know what the GD is.

What's your take on someone with both a Keystone AND a Prius?

[Marinerjoe]

Originally Posted by snoobler

Don't know what the GD is.

I believe GD is the Grand Design that the OP referenced.

All I have to say is:

Can’t we all just get along?

[chuckster57]

GD is Grand Designs. I used worked for a GD dealer for 5 yrs, and I can’t say I found those buyers to be much different from Keystone buyers or even Forest River buyers. Political posts aren’t allowed here, and as a member of the site team, we try to keep it in check. I used to be an active member of a truck forum, and I got a glimce of the different “styles” of moderation after I got a 30 day timeout.

I would like to think that this forum is fair and the members as a whole do “get along” JMHO, YMMV.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I just thought I’d share some observations. I was a member of a Grand Design owners group (joined that when I was selling them). They have recently banned posts about fuel prices because they tended to turn political and people were getting offended. Kinda makes me wonder if there are different types of people who buy different brands. For example, is Keystone the Ford/Chevy group and GD the Prius group? This is tongue in cheek, but I just found the difference between the two groups comical. BTW, left that group today, couldn’t deal with mods deleting posts and threatening to kick people out of the group because they can’t be adults.

This is a post that can absolutly turn political quickly.. Preferencing a question with a story on politics, then asking about "different types of people" is asking for this turn in to a political "us vs them" dialog. It won't be tolerated here either.

If this thread makes that turn it will be stopped and members participating in such rhetoric will face consequences for their decision. I'd urge everyone to review the forum rules and if you have any questions or need clarification on these rules please send a PM to a site team member.

[JRTJH]

Members typically don't see the tremendous amount of "behind the scenes" discussions that the entire site team does, almost on a daily basis. Unless you and your posts are involved, you probably would never even know about posts that are deleted, edited, monitored for future discussions and threads that have been closed or removed. The GD forum is, IMO, not significantly different from how this site is managed.

As for "Ford/Chevy types" or "Prius types", there's ABSOLUTELY no need to attempt to divide forums (or members) into an "us or them"... To me, it shows more of a "troll to get people "stirred up" and try to divide the membership" rather than anything significant having to do with RVing, which is the ONE thing that we all share in common.....

Look for things we all have in common, not things that we can use to divide us and cause us to feel separate or superior/inferior to others.

We've got a "fuel prices are rising" thread that is currently active and there have been several posts in other threads related to rising costs of RVing in general. The site team monitors them, usually on an hourly basis and at least several times daily.


The bottom line is that people are people, there's NO NEED to attempt to divide "us and them".... After all, we all will probably be sharing a campground with people from all walks and who own all types of RV's this summer, even if plans change to "we're only camping locally this year due to costs going up".....

I'd urge everyone to take a "refresher look" at the Community Rules on posting standards, https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ork&page=rules

If you're rushed and don't have time to read the rules before posting a "gotta do it now post", a short substitute version might be: Play nice, or don't play

[bsmith0404]

As I mentioned in my post, it was tongue in cheek. The real point of the post is how there are different group dynamics. Gas prices are something that is a concern for many people in the RV lifestyle. Each group seems to have people discussing about if/how they should modify their plans. The purpose of forums is to allow people who share the lifestyle to discuss things that are of a concern to them, be it tow vehicles, hitches, water leaks, finding campgrounds, fuel prices or whatever. For example, the thread on this forum about “who has changed their plans” would be banned there. I just found it ironic that the group banned discussion of a major impact on the lifestyle. I hope this group never goes to that extreme.

[Badbart56]

I'll say it.

I've never understood the concerns over using our first amendment rights on a forum, any forum. Especially since no one is going to get their teeth knocked out when disagreements occur. We all have differing view points but none of us are obligated to respond unless we want to. On another post here a "truck driver" made what I interpret to be a stupid statement but I felt no need to point that out. It can certainly be entertaining at times, at least from my perspective. But, whatever, if this is deemed offensive feel free to remove it. Makes me shake my head though. Americans used to be tougher than this.

This statement is not meant to be offensive or singling out anyone, here on the forum or anywhere else. Just my observation from my point of view.

[roadglide]

Thinking about the average person buying a big rv when fuel prices where $2.50 Per gallon or lower not long ago, They’re thinking oh heaven sake what did I just do .

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by roadglide

Thinking about the average person buying a big rv when fuel prices where $2.50 Per gallon or lower not long ago, They’re thinking oh heaven sake what did I just do .

Yeah, if you're on the bubble or bought as much RV as you thought you could afford that will put a crimp in your plans for sure.

I feel for the many folks that are living paycheck to paycheck. And all the trickle down effects. I have two sons that are active duty and the one that's living stateside with his wife and daughter just had their landlord bump the rent by $300 a month. And I know we're not done.....

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

Yeah, if you're on the bubble or bought as much RV as you thought you could afford that will put a crimp in your plans for sure.

I feel for the many folks that are living paycheck to paycheck. And all the trickle down effects. I have two sons that are active duty and the one that's living stateside with his wife and daughter just had their landlord bump the rent by $300 a month. And I know we're not done.....

Not meaning to "meddle" but if he is living on the local economy, the base housing office has specific standards for housing that must be met. Those standards, during the time I was coordinating lease approvals, included a maximum rental increase that could not be exceeded. You might suggest to your son that he talk to the base housing officer. Things might have changed and there may be nothing they can do to help, but always worth checking to be sure.....

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

Yeah, if you're on the bubble or bought as much RV as you thought you could afford that will put a crimp in your plans for sure..

When I was selling RVs there were many people buying who probably shouldn’t have. I’ll give them credit, the majority had intentions of building family memories while their children were still small. Although I doubt the price increases of everything will have as much impact on people who were in positions to buy luxury RVs, I see this as a much greater issue for those scraping by. I hope they can all still find ways to make those memories.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Not meaning to "meddle" but if he is living on the local economy, the base housing office has specific standards for housing that must be met. Those standards, during the time I was coordinating lease approvals, included a maximum rental increase that could not be exceeded. You might suggest to your son that he talk to the base housing officer. Things might have changed and there may be nothing they can do to help, but always worth checking to be sure.....

Things have changed a lot. When you live on the economy and did your own housing, the housing office doesn’t get involved. Maybe part of cutbacks over the years. It’s different if you’re overseas, they will adjust BAH based on market. When I was in England there was a terrible housing shortage due to influx of personnel after other base closures. We were told to just find a place and they’ll pay us whatever the rent is. Hopefully, the BAH rates will adjust state side to account for rent increases in the area, but that probably won’t happen until next Jan.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Not meaning to "meddle" but if he is living on the local economy, the base housing office has specific standards for housing that must be met. Those standards, during the time I was coordinating lease approvals, included a maximum rental increase that could not be exceeded. You might suggest to your son that he talk to the base housing officer. Things might have changed and there may be nothing they can do to help, but always worth checking to be sure.....

Thanks for the heads up. Things have changed since I was in but apparently they get a certain amount for rent and another amount for utilities and if they don't use the total allotment they can use the rest for whatever purpose the want. So my son was renting a house that was lower than his allotment and using some of the excess to pay other bills. The increase was within expectations so no foul there. He just wasn't anticipating the increase before his lease was renewed.

All is good now though, Daddy just helped him buy a house! He should close by the end of the month.

[dutchmensport]

Phew! What a thread topic! I think this one is all over the charts?

I'll try to keep on topic. Well, the OP stated several things and I suppose all of then are "on topic" so I'll pick the most logical one to address: putting user types into categories.

When it comes to any type of RV and the tow vehicle, I really do not think there is a specific pattern of combinations. Ford guys tow just as many Keystone Springdales as Chevy guys. And just as many Ram guys tow as many AirStreams as Lexus guys.

The biggest controversy when it comes to combination of tow vehicle and trailer (if that be a travel trailer or a fifth wheel or a pop-up), is not the combination of make and model, its not an issues between Ford and Chevy or Ram. No, no. The controversy and often times the much heated argument, that really gets heated up sometimes on these forums, is, "Do I have enough truck to tow this." Then the war starts on these forums about 1 ton vs 3/4 ton vs 1500/150 and single axle vs dual. THAT my friend is where the real heated arguments arise!

All folks are concerned about is personal safety on the road (theirs and yours). If the truck is under rated for the trailer, it raises a lot of concerns by those who have experienced problems, who also had the same attitude that, in the beginning, a 1500 could easily tow a 20,000 pound fifth wheel! (exaggeration on purpose here).

Grand Design trailers have traditionally been a higher end, better built, more reliable trailer, maybe second to an AirStream. And maybe this is the perception that Grand Design owners have too. Those who have higher scale "toys" have a way of feeling superior sometimes. Some folks let it go to their head and they become snobbish. Oh, they say they are not snobbish, but they really are. So on forum web sites some folks resound their air of superiority, and all the end up doing is getting themselves blocked or tossed off the forum sites.

It might not be the type of RV you have, it might be your air of superiority because of your religion, your politics, your job, your income, the fact you own a multi million dollar race horse, you drive a certain vehicle, you live in a certain neighborhood, you own an RV AND a Boat! Any number of materialistic possessions can make a person feel superior over someone else who they think has less. This also is, far too often, reflected in forum conversation and get's people in trouble.

The reality is, each of us are born naked. Every single one of us. When we die, we can take absolutely nothing form this earth with us. The reality is, none of us are superior over anyone else, especially because of the possessions you own or the life style you lead.

Trailer and tow vehicle combination? It's all in the eye of the beholder. No rhyme or reason or pattern there. We each do what we think is best for us. It's just that simple.

[bsmith0404]

I can say things got very nasty which is probably what led to moderators going overboard IMO. Whatever the reason for it, feeling of superiority or whatever, I hope it never happens on this forum. People can have disagreements, maybe need to be reeled back in from time to time, but I hope we don’t get to the point of banning discussions about topics that legitimately affect all of us, even if there is t much we can do about it.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I can say things got very nasty which is probably what led to moderators going overboard IMO. Whatever the reason for it, feeling of superiority or whatever, I hope it never happens on this forum. People can have disagreements, maybe need to be reeled back in from time to time, but I hope we don’t get to the point of banning discussions about topics that legitimately affect all of us, even if there is t much we can do about it.

As I’m sure you are aware, there are subjects that are not allowed, and result in immediate action when discovered. This is a PUBLIC forum but it is PRIVATELY owned and they make the rules. Site team members are charged with enforcing them and if the offense/offender warrant a ban then it can/will happen.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

I'll say it.

I've never understood the concerns over using our first amendment rights on a forum, any forum. Especially since no one is going to get their teeth knocked out when disagreements occur. We all have differing view points but none of us are obligated to respond unless we want to. On another post here a "truck driver" made what I interpret to be a stupid statement but I felt no need to point that out. It can certainly be entertaining at times, at least from my perspective. But, whatever, if this is deemed offensive feel free to remove it. Makes me shake my head though. Americans used to be tougher than this.

This statement is not meant to be offensive or singling out anyone, here on the forum or anywhere else. Just my observation from my point of view.

"First Amendment" rights don't exist on a privately owned forum. There are topics where discussion is prohibited...and for good reason particularly the way our society(s) are polarized these days. A member can't inject political, religious etc. conversation into a topic because it WILL get heated, the subject will be lost and the whole thing goes sideways. Many folks cannot read something they disagree with or don't like and NOT comment, many times in a very negative way which then engenders more of the same types of comments. It has to be controlled or the purpose of the forum will be nothing more than a place where people come to make caustic remarks to others they don't like. With thousands and thousands of members that is uncontrollable and deadly to a forum.

Yes, things are different than they used to be. And yes, I have to shake my head at a lot of different comments, but, some folks don't do that and go into attack mode. That's the reason it has to be curtailed up front.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

As I’m sure you are aware, there are subjects that are not allowed, and result in immediate action when discovered. This is a PUBLIC forum but it is PRIVATELY owned and they make the rules. Site team members are charged with enforcing them and if the offense/offender warrant a ban then it can/will happen.

Fuel prices?????

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Fuel prices?????

I think he / they are referring more to class warfare…prius vs Chevy owners..Implying that GD owners are higher class..I realize that wasn’t your intent I think