Reserving Campsites

[slider909]

We used to be able to reserve a camp site at the lake we go to a few weeks in advance or drive to the grounds and be able to get one that wasn't booked. We've camped there for well over 20 years. Now everything is on line and you have to book as soon as the 8 month in advance time opens up. So you are booking for almost a year out. We tend to try and book Sunday's - Thursdays, never on weekends or holidays. We've noticed that the majority of camp sites during the week have units on them but no one is around. Everyone is booking 2 week blocks just to be there on the weekends. There used to be a rule that said the sites couldn't be unoccupied for more than 24 hrs, but there is no enforcing that any more. Times sure have changed for the worse.

[JRTJH]

Business models are changing as we speak. Partly from the necessity to survive in these crazy times and, unfortunately, partly from the realization that "if we don't make it now, we may have to put a FOR SALE sign out front at the end of the month... It takes money to run a campground, even when there's nobody renting a space and they are closed for the season.

In the past, when "service and customer satisfaction" was a major factor, rules such as "site must be occupied" were enforced.

These days, with the increased stress of staying financially solvent, many business are taking the approach that a "guaranteed 2 week rental that's paid for" is better for income than enforcing a rule that makes an empty site that might sit vacant all week with NO income....

So, in an effort not to go bankrupt, many businesses are turning to profit being more important than satisfaction and "5 star ratings" in the reservations column of their review page.

Sad, but, in a way, fully expected.....

[slider909]

These are all state campgrounds, there isn't a business model! They could easily expand the sites to open new loops. The Army corps owns them, the state runs them.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by slider909

These are all state campgrounds, there isn't a business model! They could easily expand the sites to open new loops. The Army corps owns them, the state runs them.

Oh, but yes there is a business model. The agency regulating those campgrounds "establishes the business model". Whether it's local, state or federal, there's someone making the policy and telling subordinates to enforce (or ignore) the rules. Around here, there's not enough tax funds left over after the benefits to voters have been paid to fund road, bridge or infrastructure repairs... There's no money left over to "easily expand the sites to open new loops" when there's no money to give pay raises to campground supervisors...

Sorry to "bust the bubble" but the "government just doesn't have an endless supply of taxpayer money to squander on campgrounds when there's not enough to fix the potholes"....

Then, to add "insult to injury" the "government is pushing to restrict/reduce/eliminate internal combustion vehicles and electric vehicles haven't yet matured to the place where they can tow trailers... Looking ahead, in many "government agencies" the question is: Should we invest money in campgrounds that won't be used when trucks are no longer available? Or should we make sure people who vote for us are well funded?"
YMMV

[DaveAlb]

The practice of people “over-reserving” campsites is a shame. It makes the campsite unavailable for those who really want to camp. We need to mention this to any government agency managing the campground. Some of them may care.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by DaveAlb

The practice of people “over-reserving” campsites is a shame. It makes the campsite unavailable for those who really want to camp. We need to mention this to any government agency managing the campground. Some of them may care.

Yep, which is why I send a "copy of my weekly comments" via email to not only my "elected officials" but also to the department heads of the department of transportation (highway maintenance), DNR (campground managment), local township council, county commissioner, city supervisor (appointed, not elected) and anyone else who "comes onto my radar for any reason"...

It costs me nothing but my time to make my views known to them. After all, the only cost to include the "non-elected bureaucrats" is to click on their name to be added to my "weekly rants"...

Granted, I'm retired and have the time to spend, telling them my thoughts. I'd suggest that those who aren't retired, if they don't take the time, by the time they retire, there won't be any campgrounds left to enjoy.... Same for other "personal priorities"... Being vocal does help and the more people are vocal, the harder it is for them to ignore.

I'm not trying to be political and criticize any particular belief or any particular politican... All too often, we seem to forget that "they work for us" not the other way around. Diplomatically putting pressure on the politicians who we do vote for can (and does) run downhill to the people they appoint to "serve our needs"... They need to never stop being reminded of that fact.....

[DaveAlb]

Good job John!!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by DaveAlb

Good job John!!

It'll be an even "better job" when you and everyone else who can make the time to write "those who serve in their government agencies" to tell them what you expect of them. The more voices, the louder the demands....

Join in and make a change in campground reservations by telling those who make the rules at the campgrounds you frequent what you want them to do...

Michigan implemented a non-refundable deposit on all campground reservations last year. That stopped most of the "over-reserving"... It didn't happen because those of us who were irritated about the practice just sat by watching in frustration...

[slider909]

Lets see, the current national debt is $29,911,824,000,000 and you think the government has a business model?
There hasn't been any forest rangers onsite in NC campgrounds in 10+ years. There are maybe 4 people who service the 5 camp grounds that are on the NC side of the lake.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by slider909

Lets see, the current national debt is $29,911,824,000,000 and you think the government has a business model?
There hasn't been any forest rangers onsite in NC campgrounds in 10+ years. There are maybe 4 people who service the 5 camp grounds that are on the NC side of the lake.

So who would do the work to add more campsites?

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by slider909

These are all state campgrounds, there isn't a business model! They could easily expand the sites to open new loops. The Army corps owns them, the state runs them.

With those government agencies nothing would be "easy". The environmental impact studies, the capitol budget, etc., etc., etc. If they did decide to expand it would likely take decades and when completed be 30 years out of date.

As for reservations, many states have gone to 3 rd party reservations and management. One more thing they "farm out" to save money. There are many privately owned campgrounds around tourist attractions that that get booked up a year in advance and have openings during the season due to cancellations. I know a few like this where people reserve sites the first day they can then cancel before the time limit for loosing their deposit.

[slider909]

I'd love to.

[j.w.]

Originally Posted by flybouy

There are many privately owned campgrounds around tourist attractions that that get booked up a year in advance and have openings during the season due to cancellations. I know a few like this where people reserve sites the first day they can then cancel before the time limit for loosing their deposit.

Even that is changing as more privately owned campgrounds are asking for full payment up front and keeping it all unless you cancel 30 days in advance. Can get expensive real fast.

[dutchmensport]

Put yourself in the mind of campground management. What would you do?

[sourdough]

As far as state or federal campgrounds "just opening new loops", that takes money and prioritization. When our government agencies spend all their money on pet projects and funding themselves there is very little left. They can't even figure out how to fund our national defense so how in the world would they ever figure out how to fund a new loop at a campground. The list of necessities they can't figure out how to fund is very long, campgrounds and "leisure" time of the populace is way down from the bottom of that list.

Trying to tighten campground reservations both public and private is needed. Unfortunately as our current situations continue the requirement for a steady income stream for these facilities is becoming harder to acquire so they relax on some rules and tighten others. This anomaly is exacerbated by what's going on in RVs now due to the hysteria over a "pandemic" and people wanting to get out at all costs while avoiding human contact. As I witness seemingly daily, that brings out 1) folks that should never have an RV, 2) folks that can't afford an RV but get one anyway and 3) folks that have zero consideration about what is right or wrong when dealing with these campgrounds and others ability to use them. This leads to many problems for the campground owner/manager including being stiffed for last minute cancellations, failures to show up and then refusal to pay, RVs moved into a site then used as a "rental" by the RV owner while the management is unaware etc.; the list, and abuse, is almost endless.

IMO there should be a universal law that requires a minimum of $1000 deposit for any reservation that is lost if there is a cancellation within 30 days without sufficient cause (to be quantified up front by facility). That would be a start and cut out some of these folks that have no business being in an RV showing up (or not) and causing havoc with the system. Unfortunately that would also cut into the campground's bottom line I figure so I suspect it will continue to get worse before it gets better....if ever.

[slider909]

all I'm saying is there either aren't enough sites where we go or something needs to be done about people who leave their campers all week and are not there. How to go about adding new sites? My brother who just retired from VT worked in the engineering and design department and did this along with roads, bridges, treatment plants, dams, water way's, you name it. It's what they do. Just have to get it on the books somehow. Can't speak for private camp grounds.

[Fishsizzle]

This is why we set up our current MH to be as off grid as we can. We have been using an app, Campendium more along with Harvest Hosts to just get access to more places to stay. We also just pay for an RV site for 6 months just to secure it, and leave the MH there. It's like paying for storage. I have had to for myself realize that my time is my only asset anymore and can't spend it looking for sites over and over.

Side note: Oregon state parks started charging out of state visitors like 20% over on reservations since they are not paying in state taxes that us that live here do, and can't enjoy what we pay for because they are always booked.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by slider909

all I'm saying is there either aren't enough sites where we go or something needs to be done about people who leave their campers all week and are not there. How to go about adding new sites? My brother who just retired from VT worked in the engineering and design department and did this along with roads, bridges, treatment plants, dams, water way's, you name it. It's what they do. Just have to get it on the books somehow. Can't speak for private camp grounds.

I understand your frustration but that logic is like saying "the returant doesn’t have a table available so they need to add more tables". I think that over simplifies the issue. As for leaving the camper empty if there's a rule or ordenance that's one thing but other than that they paid for the site what's the big deal?

We all have inconveniences and dislikes. Time changes everything and if you're "favorite place" has changed then maybe it's time to find a new place to go. The campground insdustry is dynamic and changing, seems like a lot of changes over the last 20 years or so. Demands have increased not only for spaces but also for services. More electric, more sewage, newer rectreational services and staff, etc. There are several of our "favorite campgrounds" that have sold out and we no longer patronize. We may not like it but that’s America. We can't always have our way and they don’t ask for my opinion so I take my money elsewhere.

As for your brother from VT (Vermont?) I can't speake to their state government or efficiancy but In Maryland any engineering prerequisite for any state EXPANSION project requires budget meeting just to begin feasability studies that typically require public hearings. Nothing about that process is quick or guaranteed.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by slider909

all I'm saying is there either aren't enough sites where we go or something needs to be done about people who leave their campers all week and are not there. How to go about adding new sites? My brother who just retired from VT worked in the engineering and design department and did this along with roads, bridges, treatment plants, dams, water way's, you name it. It's what they do. Just have to get it on the books somehow. Can't speak for private camp grounds.

I am also frustrated with trying to book sites… the entire state of Florida is booked for a year out it seems

Expanding loops at a campground isn’t really easy though…the electric in the park was probably mapped out years ago and is likely overtaxed as it is…a lot of it is probably grandfathered in as for as codes…if they do any major upgrade they may have to bring everything up to current code.


Then you have bathroom facilities and septic or sewer systems …

May even be occupancy limits …

Red tape and regulations can make a seemingly little project turn into a “Federal Project”

[German Shepherd Guy]

John Wrote: "Granted, I'm retired and have the time to spend,..."


John, we all know it is a myth that retirement frees up your time


However, we appreciate your efforts all the more for it.


Oak