What next?

[travelin texans]

https://apnews.com/article/business-...0a3cc11338926d

Are they going to ban air travel in/out their state, cruise & naval vessels in all the coastal ports & anything/everything burning petroleum products.
Don't know about those folks but I'm NOT getting into a battery powered commercial airliner! And unless I'm absolutely forced to do so will NOT own an electric vehicle!
What bunch of knuckleheads!

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

https://apnews.com/article/business-...0a3cc11338926d

Are they going to ban air travel in/out their state, cruise & naval vessels in all the coastal ports & anything/everything burning petroleum products.
Don't know about those folks but I'm NOT getting into a battery powered commercial airliner! And unless I'm absolutely forced to do so will NOT own an electric vehicle!
What bunch of knuckleheads!

I fail to see the logic in what they are proposing. The technology just isn't there yet. California has already proposed banning lawn mowers and other small engine tools.

What with some states signing orders to ban the sale of diesel fuel by 2030 or 2035?! Others banning the sale of diesel trucks and cars. Getting a bit ahead of themselves it seems. They will be cutting off the trucking industry from delivering to their state(s)!

Do they really think electric trucks are going to be up and able to do what the diesels do now in a short time? The electric cars are limited in range to what, 250 miles per charge? We run our rig about 1200 miles a day in a 20 to 22 hour drive time. What kind of range do you really expect to get on an 80K pound vehicle? And how long between charges? This would set trucking back eons! You think the supply chain has problems now!

[Ron]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

https://apnews.com/article/business-...0a3cc11338926d

Are they going to ban air travel in/out their state, cruise & naval vessels in all the coastal ports & anything/everything burning petroleum products.
Don't know about those folks but I'm NOT getting into a battery powered commercial airliner! And unless I'm absolutely forced to do so will NOT own an electric vehicle!
What bunch of knuckleheads!

I'm with you on that one but I call them something else that i cannot say on here...

[chuckster57]

I read the article but I didn’t see anything about battery powered aircraft. As a resident of this state, I’ll only say that while I don’t agree with what’s happening, moving out of this state isn’t that simple. Without specifics, as a retired state employee, it would have ongoing economic impacts to me and my spouse. I have watched the air and sky turn from brown to almost blue, so I am somewhat pleased, but like most policies in this state I can only describe it as “management by crisis”.

[BubbaShoots]

We don’t have the infrastructure or the electricity generation capacity to support a huge electricity demand created by thousands of electric vehicles. I can see the possibilities for metropolitan charging stations. But in rural areas along the interstate highways, it will take decades to support electric vehicles.
Where is all this electricity going to come from…fossil fuel fired generators! The pinheads driving us toward electric vehicles are the same opponents of nuclear generation. So, we are going to replace fossil fuel burning vehicles with fossil fuel fired electricity generators!

[RickV]

They throw stuff out there because it makes the Tree Huggers happy but, like has been posted here they can't deliver on their lunacy. At least not for the foreseeable future.

[German Shepherd Guy]

Demand drives technology. The planet, the human race, cannot keep using dead dinosaurs to live on. Not in my lifetime, but it will happen, even airliners will be driven by something else. Electric? I don't know, I am not one of the super smart people that keep dragging humanity along. BUT, I do know that to say "never" is foolish. Will long haul trucks devise a different method than diesel? Could it be electric? Tesla believed the planet itself could be a giant battery, who's to say he was wrong? I lived near one of the first computers. It was two city blocks long and three stories high at the University of Illinois. Now a chip in your truck has more computer power and uses so little electricity as to be almost nothing. Electric Trucks? I would not bet against them. In 1954 could not "foresee" going to the moon in 1968.

JMO, and I could be wrong.

[locomech]

I can picture what long haul trucking will look like. Maybe something like the old pony express. A trucking company will figure out how much weight per mile a tractor will get, then drive it to a relay depot to cut off the cab and tie on a fully charged one to continue on .

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy

Demand drives technology. The planet, the human race, cannot keep using dead dinosaurs to live on. Not in my lifetime, but it will happen, even airliners will be driven by something else. Electric? I don't know, I am not one of the super smart people that keep dragging humanity along. BUT, I do know that to say "never" is foolish. Will long haul trucks devise a different method than diesel? Could it be electric? Tesla believed the planet itself could be a giant battery, who's to say he was wrong? I lived near one of the first computers. It was two city blocks long and three stories high at the University of Illinois. Now a chip in your truck has more computer power and uses so little electricity as to be almost nothing. Electric Trucks? I would not bet against them. In 1954 could not "foresee" going to the moon in 1968.

JMO, and I could be wrong.

I think we will eventually come across something that is viable to use for transportation power. The rub for me are the wackies that would destroy a country/economy for ideology vs real life solutions. Mandating elimination of fossil fueled vehicles, tools etc. to go to some sort of battery powered "anything" that then has to be charged by fossil fuel or nuclear power is just silly; we ain't there yet. And wind turbines and a bazillion acres of solar panels won't do it either (and look at the ecological damage done by the mere construction of the things....then trying to dispose of them - where's the logic?). As I was always told - things in moderation, which is how we have to approach trying to make this change. Unfortunately those that push immediate change are neither moderate nor informed.....clueless comes to mind.

[chuckster57]

Calif already has a whole bunch of windmills. I remember the first ones in the early 80’s in the altamont pass. Down near Tehachapi there are loads of them. Latest talk is putting them off shore. Growing up I lived close to a nuclear plant operated by GE at vallecitos. IIRC it was shut down in the late 70’s/early 80’s.
Tesla has installed charging stations in some locations, but since I can’t afford the initial cost, I don’t know if the plugs are proprietary.

The ongoing argument will be how to provide power to apartment/condo complexes, and who pays for the power. That’s just the start of it. Hold on to your hats, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I think we will eventually come across something that is viable to use for transportation power. The rub for me are the wackies that would destroy a country/economy for ideology vs real life solutions. Mandating elimination of fossil fueled vehicles, tools etc. to go to some sort of battery powered "anything" that then has to be charged by fossil fuel or nuclear power is just silly; we ain't there yet. And wind turbines and a bazillion acres of solar panels won't do it either (and look at the ecological damage done by the mere construction of the things....then trying to dispose of them - where's the logic?). As I was always told - things in moderation, which is how we have to approach trying to make this change. Unfortunately those that push immediate change are neither moderate nor informed.....clueless comes to mind.

I believe the term is "wackos" not "wackies". At my age I hope the next generations figure this out but I bet a dollar to a donut that I never will own an electro-mobile (or electro-truck) in my lifetime.

I think that the wackies are unrealistic about the timetable for pushing their green agenda but I also think this will drive technology to replace the internal combustion engine. It will be an ugly mess till this happens for the electro-mobile owners looking for charging and the electrical companies trying to expand their grids and they will probably put a lot more nuke, wind and solar up to try and keep up with demand but the tech just isn't there at this time to go green.

If green is the goal, we had best push our Chinese, Russian and Indian friends to work on it a bit as they don't really care about green and are the ones puking crud into the atmospheres. In fact, our dear leader blamed the tornados that swept through the country recently on global warming. Ahhhh science!

Guess I better hold onto my Solyndra stock...

[gearhead]

I'm thinking there is a place for electric vehicles, maybe just not MY place. While I like the idea of instant torque I like a wailing Chevy more.
I'm also thinking the real future is not gasoline or diesel but possibly hydrogen, blue hydrogen.
The nat gas flamethrower turbine is the real world answer to our immediate power concerns. Nat gas wells in a pure play nat gas field are much less polluting than an oil well. Burning nat gas in turbines is relatively pollution free compared to oil burning boilers.

[Cascadia]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

https://apnews.com/article/business-...0a3cc11338926d

Are they going to ban air travel in/out their state, cruise & naval vessels in all the coastal ports & anything/everything burning petroleum products.
Don't know about those folks but I'm NOT getting into a battery powered commercial airliner! And unless I'm absolutely forced to do so will NOT own an electric vehicle!
What bunch of knuckleheads!

I read the full article. We've got to start somewhere! My grandkids deserve clean air, water and a future. We aren't entitled to destroy it and leave them with worse. The younger generation is tasked with cleaning up this mess and we ought to support them. It's a huge problem that they are dealing with. I recognize that change is hard but the consequences of not changing because it's inconvenient to some of us is just not part if the plan. I'm 67. I want to do all I can to leave my beloveds a beautiful home. A better future is possible. We ought to get with the program or get out of the way.
Geez! I resent being called a knucklehead/ wacko especially by a group of grumpy old men. Lighten up, fellas!

[CaptnJohn]

Already rolling blackouts in CA because they don't generate enough for peak demands. Then shutdowns as there may be a forest firebecause they don't take care of the forests. Add more weird laws (some unconstitutional) and it was the 1st state I wrote off ever going back to. Too expensive anyway. Lots of people and companies moving out, lots of illegals moving in. Not the only state I refuse to even drive through but was 1st and is at the top of the list. Sad as it has some very nice areas but the major cities rule and they suck.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Cascadia

I read the full article. We've got to start somewhere! My grandkids deserve clean air, water and a future. We aren't entitled to destroy it and leave them with worse. The younger generation is tasked with cleaning up this mess and we ought to support them. It's a huge problem that they are dealing with. I recognize that change is hard but the consequences of not changing because it's inconvenient to some of us is just not part if the plan. I'm 67. I want to do all I can to leave my beloveds a beautiful home. A better future is possible. We ought to get with the program or get out of the way.
Geez! I resent being called a knucklehead/ wacko especially by a group of grumpy old men. Lighten up, fellas!

Fact is that there are 330 million (with an M) people in the USA, 40 million in Canada and 580 million in North America. There are 7.8 billion (with a B) people on the planet. Since 1971 (when unleaded gas became mandatory in new vehicles) pollution in the USA has been declining. During that same time frame, pollution in China, Russia and India has increased 10 fold. The solution is not windmills and solar farm covering the USA, but rather is getting the "rest of the planet" to do what we've already done and ALL of us move forward TOGETHER.....

To put it simply, if all of North America suddenly stopped using all fossil fuel, there would only be a 17% reduction in world fossile fuel consumption. https://www.americangeosciences.org/...ted-states-use Truth is, our energy consumption in the USA has fallen to the lowest point in 30 years.

Another "quick fact" is that when all the coal fired power plants built in China this year are fully online, those power plants will use more energy than all the fossil fuel consumed by the USA in all of our energy use.

To repeat, if North America "fell off the edge of this flat planet", it would only make a 17% "dent in consumption".... While lawn mowers in California are "a part of the problem", banning them is not the solution. Neither is "blowing up everything in the USA to end our existance"... Doing so will "barely slow down global fossil fuel consumption.....

Put another way, if everyone in North America stops using fossil energy, it will not solve the problems your grandchildren will face that are caused by China, India and "the rest of the world's polluters".....

[mikec557]

California is the Poster Child for government run amok.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Fact is that there are 330 million (with an M) people in the USA, 40 million in Canada and 580 million in North America. There are 7.8 billion (with a B) people on the planet. Since 1971 (when unleaded gas became mandatory in new vehicles) pollution in the USA has been declining. During that same time frame, pollution in China, Russia and India has increased 10 fold. The solution is not windmills and solar farm covering the USA, but rather is getting the "rest of the planet" to do what we've already done and ALL of us move forward TOGETHER.....

To put it simply, if all of North America suddenly stopped using all fossil fuel, there would only be a 17% reduction in world fossile fuel consumption. https://www.americangeosciences.org/...ted-states-use Truth is, our energy consumption in the USA has fallen to the lowest point in 30 years.

Another "quick fact" is that when all the coal fired power plants built in China this year are fully online, those power plants will use more energy than all the fossil fuel consumed by the USA in all of our energy use.

To repeat, if North America "fell off the edge of this flat planet", it would only make a 17% "dent in consumption".... While lawn mowers in California are "a part of the problem", banning them is not the solution. Neither is "blowing up everything in the USA to end our existance"... Doing so will "barely slow down global fossil fuel consumption.....

Put another way, if everyone in North America stops using fossil energy, it will not solve the problems your grandchildren will face that are caused by China, India and "the rest of the world's polluters".....

Thanks John, great post. So many folks seem to be blinded by ideology that they just flat can't see the big picture and what's happening to this country....as if destroying it to "save" the environment means anything in "the big picture".

As we pursue "ideology" we kill this country as our competitors, ie; enemies, continue to industrialize, grow and expand (and pollute more than we ever did or could) - we are abdicating our success and position in the world for an illusion while they pollute more as we pursue some goal here that in the big picture means absolutely nothing to the world and universe. It's unbelievable for thinking folks.

I could go on, and have stats as well, but it will invariably veer into some political conversation. My comments are more based on our current society and their loss of "vision" IMO.

[notanlines]

"Whatever you do, pay close attention to these folks here giving you advice." And who said this? Yes, Cascadia, you said it a few months ago.
I believe TT and Sourdough were referring to California lawmakers with the term 'knuckleheads' and 'wackos.'
In theory most of us probably agree with you. However, in reality, what you personally do to help with the climate change in this world is next to nothing. I'll take that one step further. You cannot change ANY law in the state you live. You might get an ordinance enacted in suburbia, USA, keeping cats on a leash, but the idea that one person can make a significant difference statewide is almost an impossible notion.
Should you be a politician, sports figure, actor or an individual of significant wealth this might be different, but other than that the rest of us have to use up two gallons of gasoline to return four flashlight batteries to the hardware store and pay $1.00 for recycling.
Mine go in the garbage.

[ExtremeRVing]

Time changes all circumstances.

In 2008 Tesla introduced its first electric car, the Roadster. It had a range of 245 miles. In its first year it only produced 500 cars.

The model S was not released until June 2012 (4 years after the roadster)

In the 1st quarter 2013 they delivered 4,900 cars.

In 2014 Tesla sold 31,655 model S cars

In 2015 Tesla accounted for about 15% of Electric car sales, or about 75,000 cars

The point is that for years the number of electric cars was just a blip compared to the amount of non-electric cars being sold.

There are MANY issues with electric cars, especially those from Tesla, but with each passing year, more and more of those issues get addressed, and a solution is found.

The largest problem today for electric cars, is the life span of the battery, and how to recycle the car and battery.

The second largest issue, is the lack of lithium batteries available for the continued growth of electric auto makers.

The third largest issue, is electric generation, because as we have all been shown over the coarse of the last 24 months, renewable energy generation has MANY issues (think TX)

Creating massive solar fields has shown to cause other environmental issues.

Manufacturing solar panels creates massive pollution, just not here in the U.S. (think China/Tiawan)

The point is, that electric cars are getting better, and we are finding solutions for the massive scale issues. But it will take time, innovation, and LOTS of money to get to a solution.

States can attempt to legislate solutions, but they will never be successful without private industry working with them. Hopefully at some point the Federal Govt will set up and organize the efforts between states and private industry, to provide a cohesive approach that everyone can live with.

Until then, we will just keep having odd laws being passed, stories being written, and little if anything actually changing for the large scale issues.

[Lindyn]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

https://apnews.com/article/business-...0a3cc11338926d

Are they going to ban air travel in/out their state, cruise & naval vessels in all the coastal ports & anything/everything burning petroleum products.
Don't know about those folks but I'm NOT getting into a battery powered commercial airliner! And unless I'm absolutely forced to do so will NOT own an electric vehicle!
What bunch of knuckleheads!

Nope I don't fly now, flying with the unknown, "People" is not my idea of safety. No, never will I own and EV. I have no use for battery power cars/trucks, Period. I would work against those who vote for tax payers money being used for EV's.