Diesel vs Gas HD

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

I don't know why but the thought of the Danny and the gas comment kind tickled my funny bone!

To the OP, the economic bubble will burst with the current economic policies in place and you will find a LOT of diesel trucks for sale; probably through the repo lots as folks are unable to make the monthly payments. With fuel prices and everything headed expensive and more expensive and tax hikes hitting, the prosperity of the past few years is probably passed. Not wanting to get political by the way... just my view.

Disagree. Totally. In spite of all “policies” in place at the time, I personally don’t EVER remember seeing a “lot” of diesels for sale nor cheap when they were. I believe this will become even more pronounced as we head for the “electric revolution”.

[Heavy_Chevy]

Or you could get an Auxiliary gas tank and transfer pump like this one I just bought and have a combined 64 gallons of gas:

https://www.jmesales.com/dot-certifi...e-fr1210-pump/

Or you could roll around with a diesel transfer tank and a bed full of Blue DEF because heaven forbid your $75k environmentally friendly rig run out of it and go into “limp” mode somewhere near middle of nowhere Wyoming. Ya I gave Motor Trans an earful after that one.

When you go to North Dakota, Don’t forget your grille blanket and fuel tank blanket and hot shot fuel stabilizer and best to just set your high idle and let it run constantly overnight when temps drop below -20. Oh and a cold weather bypass for your oil and trans cooler. And also make sure if it’s late fall after first freeze, ask the pump attendant if they’ve switched from Diesel #2 to Diesel #1.

Diesels. High performance, high maintenance. I’ll stick with my big block that fires over when I’m ready to turn the key no matter what the temp is, on 87 octane which is everywhere.

Fire on the wires and pistons the size of paint cans! America!!

[notanlines]

Bryan, you let it slip when you stated "and a bed full of Blue DEF." Kinda blew your 'street cred' with us all. I believe the sour grapes in your anti-diesel are showing heavily.

[Javi]

Man.... I don't know what to say... I've owned, driven, and overseen a fleet of diesel vehicles since the early 1970's including one of the first Dodge Rams to hit Central Texas. I've lived at 8300 feet in Colorado while owning a diesel pickup and driven a 100,000 miles a year towing 10,000 - 15,000 pound equipment trailers with a diesel pickup from the RVG to Montana and Arizona to Georgia without all the problems and challenges I've read about in this thread...

I guess ignorance really is bliss...

Both fuels have their place, and if all I did was pull a 10K to 12K trailer a couple of thousand miles a year; then a gasoline driven pickup would easily get the job done.

But if you want to hit the road or like me tow a 15K trailer several thousand miles during the year going camping every couple of weeks, then a diesel makes more sense.

Oh, and a 2.5 gallon jug of DEF every couple of thousand miles doesn't require a bed full of DEF...

[Heavy_Chevy]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Bryan, you let it slip when you stated "and a bed full of Blue DEF." Kinda blew your 'street cred' with us all. I believe the sour grapes in your anti-diesel are showing heavily.

I know man, I’m just stirring the pot! LOL! If you’re towing north of 15,000, there is no other option but diesel and I fully realize that. There is no comparison in how a diesel tows too, especially at higher elevations. Gas can’t compete with forced induction. But I still like my gas truck!

[notanlines]

Can you imagine? Some member here stirring the pot? Why the nerve of some people....

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Can you imagine? Some member here stirring the pot? Why the nerve of some people....

I am taking my trailer to the local tire shop today; they are having a tire sale on Trailer King tires, load range C I believe. The shop said they have been on the shelf for 5 years so are selling cheap.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

I am taking my trailer to the local tire shop today; they are having a tire sale on Trailer King tires, load range C I believe. The shop said they have been on the shelf for 5 years so are selling cheap.

As long as they were stored setting upright, and outsid, on the south side of the building uou should be good to go! BTW, how's the search for the replacement tow vehichle going? Still looking for that 1995 or so used Toyota T 100 ?

[Heavy_Chevy]

Originally Posted by Javi

I guess ignorance really is bliss...

Not ignorance Sir I promise. Diesels are very useful and I know as my family grows and brings more toys I'll have no choice in 5-10 years. But all of those are real experiences. I too managed a fleet, one of the largest fleets in the Air Force, half of which are armored. UA-HMMWVs, LMTVs, Lenco BEARCATs, 1-ton camper trucks, bobcats, etc.

We found out all that heavy metal armor soaks up cold like a big wet blanket. And you can't put a radiator blanket on because there's no room between the grille plate, can't insulate the fuel tank without dropping the entire bottom armored hull, and maintenance in general is a nightmare. And you darn sure better not fill the base fuel tanks with diesel #2 in October even when it's the delivery company's mistake. Pretty expensive to pump it out and replace.
Constantly had trucks freezing up on maintenance sites, not starting under response conditions, blown turbos, blown head gaskets, failed injectors, you name it. Had to laugh to keep from crying most days, our in-service rate looked like my first semester college grades.

Tried everything. Finally just started having troops set the throttle lock at high idle and keep them running constantly. Then they started using more oil because of excessive idle time. Couldn't win for losing.

As for the DEF, yes, a convoy of 25 diesel trucks loaded down with weapons, ammo, troops and gear on a 1600 mile round trip requires the mobile maintenance chase truck to carry an absurd amount of the stuff because DEF doesn't make the cut line on the vehicle loadout plan if it's DEF or a Combat LifeSaver (CLS) kit. Maybe diesels don't use that much unloaded, but they sure do loaded.

Just my experience Sir, can't change it now.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Heavy_Chevy

Not ignorance Sir I promise. Diesels are very useful and I know as my family grows and brings more toys I'll have no choice in 5-10 years. But all of those are real experiences. I too managed a fleet, one of the largest fleets in the Air Force, half of which are armored. UA-HMMWVs, LMTVs, Lenco BEARCATs, 1-ton camper trucks, bobcats, etc.

We found out all that heavy metal armor soaks up cold like a big wet blanket. And you can't put a radiator blanket on because there's no room between the grille plate, can't insulate the fuel tank without dropping the entire bottom armored hull, and maintenance in general is a nightmare. And you darn sure better not fill the base fuel tanks with diesel #2 in October even when it's the delivery company's mistake. Pretty expensive to pump it out and replace.
Constantly had trucks freezing up on maintenance sites, not starting under response conditions, blown turbos, blown head gaskets, failed injectors, you name it. Had to laugh to keep from crying most days, our in-service rate looked like my first semester college grades.

Tried everything. Finally just started having troops set the throttle lock at high idle and keep them running constantly. Then they started using more oil because of excessive idle time. Couldn't win for losing.

As for the DEF, yes, a convoy of 25 diesel trucks loaded down with weapons, ammo, troops and gear on a 1600 mile round trip requires the mobile maintenance chase truck to carry an absurd amount of the stuff because DEF doesn't make the cut line on the vehicle loadout plan if it's DEF or a Combat LifeSaver (CLS) kit. Maybe diesels don't use that much unloaded, but they sure do loaded.

Just my experience Sir, can't change it now.

Doesn't surprise me much... However equating MIL SPEC vehicles to commercial and private vehicles and their very different design parameters isn't apples to apples.. And when is the last time you saw a convoy of 25 RV's on a 1600 mile round trip

As a note: every diesel pickup I've owned has had a block heater

[Heavy_Chevy]

Originally Posted by Javi

Doesn't surprise me much... However equating MIL SPEC vehicles to commercial and private vehicles and their very different design parameters isn't apples to apples.. And when is the last time you saw a convoy of 25 RV's on a 1600 mile round trip

As a note: every diesel pickup I've owned has had a block heater

Yep, different experience but still valid. And block heaters on diesels are about as useful as tits on a bull when temps get that low. When you leave for a week long mission and leave your diesel pickup parked and plugged in at the armory parking lot, you’ll come back to a truck that still won’t start. Ask me how I know.

[Gegrad]

One thing to consider.. there are seven in his family. There isn't a truck on the market that can haul more than 6. Which means they will always have a chaser vehicle, which means he can load stuff and people into that, so he is likely to never approach any kind of weight limits with a gasser HD and his current trailer. Now if he does want a bigger trailer that is a different discussion.

[Heavy_Chevy]

Originally Posted by Gegrad

One thing to consider.. there seven in his family. There isn't a truck on the market that can haul more than 6. Which means they will always have a chaser vehicle, which means he can load stuff and people into that, so he is likely to never approach any kind of weight limits with a gasser HD and his current trailer. Now if he does want a bigger trailer that is a different discussion.

Good point. And gets us back on topic. LOL.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Heavy_Chevy

Or you could get an Auxiliary gas tank and transfer pump like this one I just bought and have a combined 64 gallons of gas:

https://www.jmesales.com/dot-certifi...e-fr1210-pump/

Or you could roll around with a diesel transfer tank and a bed full of Blue DEF because heaven forbid your $75k environmentally friendly rig run out of it and go into “limp” mode somewhere near middle of nowhere Wyoming. Ya I gave Motor Trans an earful after that one.

When you go to North Dakota, Don’t forget your grille blanket and fuel tank blanket and hot shot fuel stabilizer and best to just set your high idle and let it run constantly overnight when temps drop below -20. Oh and a cold weather bypass for your oil and trans cooler. And also make sure if it’s late fall after first freeze, ask the pump attendant if they’ve switched from Diesel #2 to Diesel #1.

Diesels. High performance, high maintenance. I’ll stick with my big block that fires over when I’m ready to turn the key no matter what the temp is, on 87 octane which is everywhere.

Fire on the wires and pistons the size of paint cans! America!!

I hate to bust your bubble, but nearly everything you "allude to cold weather diesel operation" is not only melodramatic, and most is not only inaccurate, it's flat out wrong.....

I live in northern Michigan (not in San Antonio) and the temperature here routinely falls to 0F and often stays well below 0F for weeks on end (EVERY winter)... NONE of the "diesel drama" you allude to is common, in fact, around here, people who take care of their diesel engines have NONE of the issues you allege. I've got a diesel tractor that I use to move snow and it sits in an unheated pole barn (so I don't have to dig it out of snowbanks) and it's started every time I needed it for the past 10 winters. No special "forumlas" for the fuel, no special "heaters" for the engine, no special "facial expressions" hoping it'll start.... It's far more reliable than the gas engine "Craftsman garden tractor" that sits beside it in the pole barn....

It's the same with my diesel SuperDuty (and the one before that)... Never have any of my diesel trucks failed to start and NEVER have I had "fuel problems" in the 20+ years I've driven diesel trucks. So, I'd have to "completely disagree with your allegations that diesels are a problem in cold weather.

I don't know where you got your information about cold weather diesel operation, but you might want to check for updates to the software in your data bank.....

ADDED: And as for "reliability and operational readiness" having spent a career spanning 3 decades in the Air Force, I can assure you that the majority of "novice diesel truck owners" in the "civilian counter society" are intimately more familiar with and take better care of their diesel trucks than most of the "USAF operators" who have the mototpool to call when something happens. Having planned a number of 'winter operations" to move a squadron of fighter airplanes and all their support equipment from places like Tyndall AFB, FL to Duluth IAP, MN for a month long "Operation Brrrr" nearly all of the diesel equipment, if the fuel was changed out (per TO instructions) had no fuel issues. It's the "supervisor that's not familiar with cold weather ops" that makes the decision to "ignore the TO cause I know better" that creates most of the issues for military equipment. As for not having "space for the DEF" on the convoy, well, PPP comes to mind on the part of the exercise managers..... Anybody who's had a diesel knows that it won't run without DEF, so to get into that situation without having planned for a "DEF truck" as part of the convoy... Blame that on not knowing what's required to move a convoy of diesel powered equipment... I'd bet whoever made that "bonehead decision" won't ever forget to add space for DEF on all the convoys they put together in the future LOL

[Heavy_Chevy]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I hate to bust your bubble, but nearly everything you "allude to cold weather diesel operation" is not only melodramatic, and most is not only inaccurate, it's flat out wrong.....

I live in northern Michigan (not in San Antonio) and the temperature here routinely falls to 0F and often stays well below 0F for weeks on end (EVERY winter)... NONE of the "diesel drama" you allude to is common, in fact, around here, people who take care of their diesel engines have NONE of the issues you allege. I've got a diesel tractor that I use to move snow and it sits in an unheated pole barn (so I don't have to dig it out of snowbanks) and it's started every time I needed it for the past 10 winters. No special "forumlas" for the fuel, no special "heaters" for the engine, no special "facial expressions" hoping it'll start.... It's far more reliable than the gas engine "Craftsman garden tractor" that sits beside it in the pole barn....

It's the same with my diesel SuperDuty (and the one before that)... Never have any of my diesel trucks failed to start and NEVER have I had "fuel problems" in the 20+ years I've driven diesel trucks. So, I'd have to "completely disagree with your allegations that diesels are a problem in cold weather.

I don't know where you got your information about cold weather diesel operation, but you might want to check for updates to the software in your data bank.....

Minot AFB, ND. Stationed there for 3 years in the 4th worst winter on state record. Now I’m stationed in San Antonio. Hate to burst your bubble. And it’s not wrong, it’s history now because it happened hahaha! Obviously I hit a nerve! Sorry! ��

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Heavy_Chevy

Good point. And gets us back on topic. LOL.

I believe it is fully legal in Texas to put all your passengers in the bed of your truck when driving if you keep the speed under 100 mph. See it all the time out here in Medina County. Of course, for safety, they should all wear long sleeve work shirts and ball caps.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

I believe it is fully legal in Texas to put all your passengers in the bed of your truck when driving if you keep the speed under 100 mph. See it all the time out here in Medina County. Of course, for safety, they should all wear long sleeve work shirts and ball caps.

I didn't think Texas was that restrictive. Guess you learn "sumptin" new every day!

[Heavy_Chevy]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

I believe it is fully legal in Texas to put all your passengers in the bed of your truck when driving if you keep the speed under 100 mph. See it all the time out here in Medina County. Of course, for safety, they should all wear long sleeve work shirts and ball caps.

Alright, hint taken! I’ll quit poking bears LOL.

[nellie1289]

Only thing I will add to this debate is I actively monitor KBB and other sites for used diesel values. Believe it or not, my current truck, with 43k miles, is KBB'ing higher than i paid for it NEW 7 years ago. For this reason, I think diesel can never be beat. I have toyed around with selling it but I cant replace it with a new one, there is simply no inventory. Ive got 2 weeks to go on extended warranty, lets hope she holds together. Just got back from 2500 mile trip with my 2021 Montana, FANTASTIC! It seemsthe days of getting 14k off msrp are over though, at least temporarily.

[Javi]

Just a note: https://shop.ford.com/inventory/supe...daf-paidsearch