Payload Capacity and Options / Trim Level

[slow]

These real world numbers may help others selecting a new TV.

This is our recent experience of the difference in available payload and that stated in the specs as maximum payload due to options and trim level.

Per the Payload specs, our 2015 4x4 F250 Crew with 6.2 gas and SB "could have" a (maximum) payload capacity as high as 3150 pounds:



We have the XLT trim level with a few options that are for the most part, what many buyers would have as a minimum in their TV:



Even with only the few options and a lower end trim level, the payload capacity on the vehicle label dropped from a maximum of 3150 to an available payload capacity of 2668 pounds.



I suspect the largest contributors to the reduction in available payload are the 18 inch tires, power driver's seat and running boards. But everything else also adds up quickly.

In our situation, there is no negative consequence since we do not plan on upgrading to a FW (we like to have our truck bed open for our mountain bikes and the Propride hitch gives us no reason to go to a FW in search of towing stability), but we still have room to upgrade to a larger TT in the future.

[JRTJH]

Yup, Yup.....

Add the Lariat Ultimate package, fifth wheel/gooseneck hitch prep package and a diesel engine to the mix and the payload can go down another 500-600 pounds. That would make the F150 "max payload" option capable of carrying more than the "much stronger and more capable" F250. The same can be found in GM and Chrysler truck lines.

We keep getting more and more posts on the forum from 3/4 ton owners (and even some 1 ton owners) who find out what they thought they were buying isn't all it's advertised to be.

[slow]

Would not the F150 with Max payload not suffer the same consequences with options and trim level? With a starting max of 2650 pounds payload for the equivalent trim level, box, and Crew/SB that too would drop quickly once configured with options as desired. Admittedly, without a diesel option the payload hit would not be as drastic. I suspect the F150 would end up in the high teens once configured, so still lower than most F250s.


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[JRTJH]

I'd suspect that equipped with similar features and packages, the F150 would suffer the very similar payload decreases. From a "luxury F250/well equipped F150 vantage, the F150 may have a bigger payload. But then, from a "vehicle weight/frame strength/towing platform" perspective, the F250 would likely be a better tow vehicle choice even it had the same payload ratings as the F150. Considering the vehicle choice from a towing perspective only, I would choose the F250 "hands down" over the F150, but when other considerations come into play, like economy, daily driver requirement, parking, insurance and I'm sure there are other considerations, then the decision does get less clear.

Hopefully this won't turn into a "half ton/3/4 ton" debate. Both have their places, as do the one ton, one ton dually and even bigger trucks. It all depends on application and need, I suppose. The biggest factor is to select the tow vehicle that gives the best capacity for the trailer you intend to tow.

It isn't as simple as looking at the advertisements from any manufacturer and assuming their "boasts" are applicable to all the trucks with that "name" on the fender. It's easy to get "burned" when thinking one truck or another will "do me ok". Any more, as you've so well illustrated, the advertised payload and the actual payload can be significantly different. Sometimes as much as 35 to 40% less than advertised.

[Javi]

Here is the door sticker from my old 2012 F250 diesel for comparison.. it was a CC, LB, XL with power windows and door locks and little else..

[C130]

When comparing an F250 to an F150 as a daily driver I got as good or better gas mileage with my 2011 F250 than my father in laws F150 with the Eco Boost engine. Plus, his truck is only 2 wheel drive. Personally, I hate the Eco boost and have several friends that have had to get the motor replaced in them.

[rbev2308]

I personally think every towing guide is almost useless about as much as the guy selling the camper saying your truck can tow this. Why else would you see people with triple axle toy haulers and a 3/4 ton truck rolling thru the campground. Every truck whether 1/2, 3/4 or one ton is unique depending on all sorts of things like figuring empty vehicle weight and then subtracting from GVWR. That can be a starting point but people fail to understand how much weight is on the rear springs and what that difference is. Read the fine print and it will show the weight was with full tank of fuel and 125 lb driver. I actually took my dually to the scales before I bought and got all the weights of it empty. After I purchased, I actually went back with me, the wife and the 245 lb dog and a full tank of diesel and the new tonneau cover. This clearly showed me what my GCWR could be as well as the GVWR as well as how much pin weight (hitch included) I could put on the rear springs safely. At that point, I knew I wanted a trailer with less than 18,000 GVWR and under 13,000 and 2600 pin weight empty. It allowed me to potentially fully load and still have 10-15% avail pin weight as well as 20% of GCWR and I feel less stress on the rear springs and tires. Did I over analyze, maybe but I hate hearing these stories your truck can pull it or all you need is weight distribution for a pull behind and it will ease the weight on your springs which is true...All our trucks could pull the space shuttle on level ground. It is the incline and breaking which is the concern. Even though my old F-150 had a 7700 lb GVWR, it weighed only 5500 lbs so 2200 lb diff. Many of the F-250 with Diesel engines, weigh in at 8000 lbs and have 10,500 or 11,500 GVWR so not a whole lot of difference. I am just glad there are others being safety conscious and looking ahead before just towing whatever anyone sells them because we are all sharing the same roads!!! and BTW, look at the towing level decrease for 20 inch tires??? on Ford trucks.

[JRTJH]

Ross, you make some excellent points !!!

Javi, your F250 XL payload is only 39 pounds less than Slow's XLT 250. The big difference between them is that yours was a diesel and his is gas. Considering the extra weight of the diesel, one would have to conclude that there's about 450-550 pounds of extra "added equipment" in the XLT. The Lariat seems to be the "standard luxury SuperDuty" since It's the first model in the lineup with dual power seats, power folding mirrors, leather seats, individual temperature controls, etc. So, I'm wondering just how much those "added luxuries" reduce the payload over the XLT model?

I'm looking at the "possibility" (not the probability) of replacing our supercab LB 158" wheelbase F250 with a crewcab SB 156" wheelbase. I'm facing the real limitations of the F250/F350 payload issue. If I decide to buy a diesel, even with my "small fifth wheel" I'll be pushing the payload in an F250 XLT. I'm facing even more severe limitations with a Lariat model. In order to keep the payload high enough to load the truck bed with generators, fuel, extra water, firewood and have the availability to carry 4 or 5 "good size passengers" the diesel option requires that I move to the F350 to keep the payload margin. That's a "far cry" from the rhetoric in the advertisements about "how much GCWR and Maximum Trailer Weight" the F250 can tow.

Realistically, with a GVW of 10,000 pounds and a payload of 2500 pounds, the F250 diesel Lariat 4x4's I've seen aren't capable of staying under the GVW if you put 4 people weighing 700 pounds (2 men @200 and 2 women at 150) with a pin weight of 1800 pounds and a fifth wheel hitch weighing 100 pounds. That leaves a negative balance of 100 pounds with no cargo. So I guess I could resolve that by only filling the fuel tank 3/4 full ????

If I do buy a new truck, just to have the options of travelling with 2 other adults and still take the dog, I'm forced into the one ton class tow vehicles. There's just not a lot of "truth in advertising" when you really weigh the options and consider the reality of truck capability vs the claims from Detroit.

[Javi]

John, my F250 did have the power/heated mirrors, tilt wheel and ELD but no power seats and no carpet or running boards.. the stock black running boards are right at 50 lbs. I know this because I added them myself after I bought the truck. For comparison here is the sticker from the new truck which is equipped the same with the exception that it came with running boards and a limited slip rear end..

[Ken / Claudia]

Here in Portland I finally seen a tv add by a ford dealer, (which does not matter) that was about trucks and they print across the screen and say "we will explain pay load and towing capabilities". I hope they do it correctly. But, it was refreshing and different than the "this truck can pull a XXX lbs of trailer , more than the other trucks.

[buzzcop63]

Quote from 2012 Tundra Brochure:
25. Payload Capacity is the calculation of GVWR
Minus curb weight and should be used for comparison purposes only. The maximum amount of passenger and cargo weight your vehicle can carry is the Load Carrying Capacity indicated on the label(s)
On the driver’s doorjamb.

My Tundra 4.6L V8 Dbl Cab, 2 whdr with tow Pkg is listed as 1,465Lb payload with the tow package (GVWR 6,700 less Curb Weight of 5,085Lb which is 1,615Lb), inside the door of the truck it states Maximum weight of occupants and cargo is 1,135Lb. That's 330Lb difference or 480Lb depending on how close you look at the chart. Per scale weights with trailer attached I am still within my maximum payload by about 60Lb. All other numbers are fine but this one really causes me worry when I see so many half-ton trucks towing 5th wheels that are sold as half ton towable. Question, how accurate are these stated numbers, how much of a fudge factor is their, how safe are we?

[rbev2308]

This is the age old debate that can be argued forever. Five years ago we did not see half ton towable fifth wheels be heavily marketed. If I followed the letter of the actual truck, you can easily prove the majority of them are not towable with a half ton truck. Heck I am not even sure the mfr knows its own numbers. I find it odd that a model of a truck with certain engine package has different tow ratings from one year to the next even though the frame and engine and suspension never really changed. It is like Dodge said we can tow this so Ford and Chevy tries to one up them and it goes on. My brother has a 2008 Chevy Duramax dually which has 16,900 stated fifth wheel towing and the new Chevy has 23,000. Same rear end and not sure how much a frame design or engine tweak has made this increase other than it is now comparable to Ford and Dodge!!!go figure. Like I said in my earlier post, I learned alot with my F-150 and tow behinds. I finally took the thing and weighed it and was no where near what the stated max was with respect to GVWR since I had a tonneau cover, 750 lbs of loaded cargo in the cab, fuel and other things thrown in the back, hell I had just enough room for a little over 800 lbs of tongue weight. but the manual said I could tow 9300 lbs (minus 500 for 18 in tires) There were no trailers under that weight that were within the tongue weight. I then decided I wanted to upgrade the truck and get a fifth wheel and started seeing the same thing but the limits had more margins in it than the 1/2 ton. I decided I would one, never get a toy hauler, and two, never get a trailer with a GVWR higher than 16,000 , so that made getting the dually my wisest choice. Even following the established guidelines, I would technically be over towing nearly any triple axle toy hauler. I might be within the GCWR and the GVWR but over the rear spring weight. To me, all of them need to be within the margins. In my opinion, if you are at 90% of GCWR with total weight you are probably over on one if not both of GVWR and Rear spring weights. There is a neat little app out there that helps. Not sure when the started charging the $2 for it as when I got it was free http://fifthwheelst.info/


you can get the free stuff from their website and just follow the sheets


read the safety and tow rating articles.
http://fifthwheelst.com/

[slow]

PART 2:

Drove around town and the surrounding area all day today to put on kilometers/miles for breakin. I also decided to hit the scales to get the "real" numbers for the truck.



Note that the total weight for myself and the DW is 330 lbs, so the GVW is 330 lbs less than the 7500 lb listed on the CAT Scale ticket.

While summarizing all the numbers for our truck, I checked the GVW tag on the truck and realized that the Front GAWR is 4800 lbs not the published spec of 5600 lbs.



Here is the summary:



A few comments:

1. the curb weight of our truck with a full tank of gas is ~342 lbs higher than the published curb weight (Is the published curb weight without fuel?)
2. the actual available payload is 482 lbs less than what is published in the specs
3. I attribute the difference in my scaled/calculated available payload to the tag as measurement error and close enough to each other
4. I am happy that my new TV has greater weight (~30% higher) than my TT so the tail does not wag the dog so to speak. That was the issue haunting me with my F150 which weighed less than my loaded trailer.

BTW #1: I started the day off with approximately 60 kilometers (36 miles) on the truck. At the end of the day of driving for 367.5 kilometers (228 miles) I averaged 17.2 l/100km (16.4 mpg imp or 13.1 mpg US). I estimate that it was 50/50 city to highway.

BTW #2: My objective was to post hard numbers for my situation as an aid to others making TV decisions, not to start a 1/2 vs 3/4 vs 1 ton debate. The bottom line in my situation is that the trim and options reduced the available payload from the max published payload by nearly 500 lbs. As others have stated, other configurations and options may result in higher or lower reductions. So buyer beware and check the tag on the door pillar. That is the number that counts.

[gtsum2]

I had an eye opening payload experience last year when I weighed my 2013 Ram 1500...GVWR of 6800lbs..with family loaded up and duel it weighed 6380 I then skipped the 2500 series and ordered a 2014 Ram 3500 SRW...the ram site showed my model and trim level as weighing about 7970 and having 4400lbs payload...yellow door sticker shows 4074lbs.....I finally got around to weighing it last week and with full tank of fuel and me in it (265), I came across at 8700lbs with a GVWR of 12400...so, I have 3700 left...those numbers sure do seem to shrink fast! I can only imagine how many 3/4 ton trucks towing Toy Haulers are way over their specs......


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[slow]

Originally Posted by gtsum2

...the ram site showed my model and trim level as weighing about 7970 and having 4400lbs payload...yellow door sticker shows 4074lbs.....I finally got around to weighing it last week and with full tank of fuel and me in it (265), I came across at 8700lbs with a GVWR of 12400...so, I have 3700 left...those numbers sure do seem to shrink fast! ......


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Good point about the manufacturer's websites being miss leading about the available payload. It should be easy enough to program the option and trim level weights to get a better estimate.

[Hansel]

From what research I've been doing on what my truck can tow (2001 F-250 CCSRW 4X4 7.3L diesel) which after doing the math isn't that much my numbers are the truck weighed in at just over 7700lbs so that leaves me just over 1100lbs of carry capacity, which isn't much. We are looking at what they say are 1/2 ton towable's that too me seem like they are "not" 1/2 ton's at all but more.

[slow]

As an Update:



I used the Changing Gears website's calculator (http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-...eight-tt.shtml) to determine the capacity of our F250 6.2 litre gasser. The results are:











Using their recommended "margins", our 23RB passport Elite is a good match with our F250 gasser. Anything heavier would take away from the recommended margin.

[Goingfor9]

I have a 2015 F250 gasser as well. Mine is the lariat package with all the bell whistles except the sunroof. I have the fx4 package as well. With all those bells and whistles I have 75 more pounds of payload than you do. Not sure how that worked out.

[CWSWine]

After buying a 2500HD that would tow 15,000 lbs with 3100 lbs payload that I thought we could tow the majority of the 5er on the market but when I got the truck it had 2475 payload. When I upgraded to my F350 with 4150 payload the dealer had to get the truck from another dealer but was more than willing to put in the sales contract that the yellow sticker would be over 3750lbs payload and if it wasn't I could refuse the truck. Matter a fact he said it would be fraud if the yellow sticker didn't reflect the payload listed on the website. The truck arrived with a yellow sticker of 3744 and I refused the truck till he threw in some freebees. LOL

[nellie1289]

so for my Ram you can enter the vin on the ram trucks website and it gives you your exact payload. Mine comes back at 4,256, but the sticker says 4,017. WTF!