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Old 02-26-2022, 08:29 AM   #61
wegone
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Thanks John....

I've no doubt it will be available, but with its many restrictions, will it be the same?

I read somewhere that all the stuff they tack onto the motor to meet some of the required emissions have added lots of $$$$ to the purchase price, and presently it takes about 150K miles to pay for it vs. gas, so that might even change.

In my case, which is what I am trying to think ahead....
Is that I don't see me towing to max need, and I think that is probably one of the biggest deciding factors in a future TV.

Maybe the biggest change in the future will be to transmissions and how to get more power and range from smaller power plants, sort of how hydraulics can use a little, to lift a lot?
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Old 02-26-2022, 08:42 AM   #62
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Well once again a thread has taken a hard left from the original topic, just like that!
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Old 02-26-2022, 08:46 AM   #63
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On of my "life dreams" was (no longer is) to own a Ford GT. Used to have HUGE engines, turbos and the resulting "power rumble" which is what attracted me to ownership....

Today's Ford GT is a "shell of its former glory" complete with a EcoBoost 3.5L "whiney engine" and the "lustful sound of power" is only a memory.... If I were still inclined to buy a "sports car" I'd probably opt for a Mazda Miata, same "tiny whiney engine" and a hell of a lot less "buy in investment"...

Point is, things are going to change, some will see the change as an improvement, some will "lust for the good old days"... Either way, change will be slow, methodical and "profit based" for the automobile companies, not mandated by the government.

As for the "dollars added to make today's cars cost more"... As a kid, I don't think we ever took a vacation where we didn't wind up sitting at a gas station, waiting for a fan belt, a water pump or a generator.... We only traveled at night (no air conditioning in those days) and could barely see the road ahead with those old sealed beam headlights.... Today's cars go 100K miles before even needing spark plugs, I can't remember the last water pump I changed, alternators seem to last forever and even the foam in the seats is more durable than the cotton quilting under the wool serge covers from the 50's... So, yes, cars cost more, but they last immeasureably longer than they did 50 years ago too.....

Heck, just think back to that "ugly swollen bottom lip" bumper that was on all the 1973 cars.... You know, the spring loaded 5MPH steel beam covered with sun faded plastic"... When was the last time you even noticed a "protective bumper on a current model car or truck" ???

Bottom line, at least to me, vehicles are immeasurably better today than in the past, but they're still "fossil fuel powered".... My guess is they'll be even better in 20 or 30 years, but still "fossil fuel powered".... And I won't be driving a Ford GT with it's "whiney EcoBoost engine".....
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Old 02-26-2022, 08:47 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
Well once again a thread has taken a hard left from the original topic, just like that!
Yes, it has... Sort of like thinking, after 60 posts, the "old comments started repeating, so infuse some new ideas in the mush".....
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Old 02-26-2022, 09:19 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Island Eddie View Post
I tried to ask this question before in a new thread, after reading this thread, but it seems a "hot topic" and was removed.

I hope I might find an answer to my question because I might need to decide on a future TV with what others say/input.

I feel its relevant to this forum.

Does one fuel have an advantage over the other, with future refining and availability concerns?

Play nice guys, I want honest input please, not politics, etc. OK?

My 2011 F-250 6.2 gasser FX4 SD runs great at 140K.
But who knows what might happen on the next tow?
I would consider ALL options to maintaining our towing life, which I imagine will be till my last breath, and I know it comes a point when you have to get a new pony, as age can never go backwards.

HOPEFULLY, thank you

Note: Thanks to those who do own real life experience with the set up the OP asked about. Nice to get firsthand testimony.
I watch Scotty Kilmer often. This post made me think about one of his past videos. He's the mechanic with his Ask Scotty youtube channel. He's always giving mechanical advice, talking about different cars and such. But, he has produced quite a few videos about the origins of various car manufacturers, vehicle types and also about various fuels.

I remember watching the video that I've attached about gas vs diesel. I'm sure it's rudimentary for most of us in here, but it's still very interesting. But, he does make a comment at the end of this video about different European countries banning diesel engines in cars in the near future. I didn't hear him say that about trucks. But realistically, the government can classify any class 3 or lighter vehicle as a car if they want to.

We all know the technology isn't there yet for towing. More than likely further out than our lifetimes.

And now back to our regular scheduled programing!

The video is entertaining, enjoy!

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Old 02-26-2022, 10:47 AM   #66
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Both of these tested the 7.3 limits , The factory overload springs were sitting on their pads
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Old 02-26-2022, 11:03 AM   #67
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Here is another test
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Old 02-26-2022, 11:08 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
On of my "life dreams" was (no longer is) to own a Ford GT. Used to have HUGE engines, turbos and the resulting "power rumble" which is what attracted me to ownership....

Today's Ford GT is a "shell of its former glory" complete with a EcoBoost 3.5L "whiney engine" and the "lustful sound of power" is only a memory.... If I were still inclined to buy a "sports car" I'd probably opt for a Mazda Miata, same "tiny whiney engine" and a hell of a lot less "buy in investment"...

Point is, things are going to change, some will see the change as an improvement, some will "lust for the good old days"... Either way, change will be slow, methodical and "profit based" for the automobile companies, not mandated by the government.

As for the "dollars added to make today's cars cost more"... As a kid, I don't think we ever took a vacation where we didn't wind up sitting at a gas station, waiting for a fan belt, a water pump or a generator.... We only traveled at night (no air conditioning in those days) and could barely see the road ahead with those old sealed beam headlights.... Today's cars go 100K miles before even needing spark plugs, I can't remember the last water pump I changed, alternators seem to last forever and even the foam in the seats is more durable than the cotton quilting under the wool serge covers from the 50's... So, yes, cars cost more, but they last immeasureably longer than they did 50 years ago too.....

Heck, just think back to that "ugly swollen bottom lip" bumper that was on all the 1973 cars.... You know, the spring loaded 5MPH steel beam covered with sun faded plastic"... When was the last time you even noticed a "protective bumper on a current model car or truck" ???

Bottom line, at least to me, vehicles are immeasurably better today than in the past, but they're still "fossil fuel powered".... My guess is they'll be even better in 20 or 30 years, but still "fossil fuel powered".... And I won't be driving a Ford GT with it's "whiney EcoBoost engine".....
Great post/reply.

Lots of deep wisdom with your observation John.

Age can be a double-edged sword.

As for me, you can keep your air fryers, I still like grease and my hard-earned heart attack, such be improvements

About batteries, I was one of the mechanics who saw, and did modifications to the 787 after those batteries flamed.

I don't believe we are anywhere near controlling such power in that format, just too hot and risky for any type of failure, which are many.
Not to even mention disposal of spent batteries.

Sorry to thread jack this.

I am done with trying to gather subjects that might be too sensitive in such forums....just because I feel I can handle it.

As you were
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Old 02-26-2022, 12:08 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by wesaysoracing View Post
Both of these tested the 7.3 limits , The factory overload springs were sitting on their pads
Can't tell if that's a F250 or 350, but in all 3 of those towing scenarios a 1 ton dually should've been required, diesel powered would be the best option, if towing frequently or for any distance.
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Old 02-26-2022, 12:55 PM   #70
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Yes, it has... Sort of like thinking, after 60 posts, the "old comments started repeating, so infuse some new ideas in the mush".....
The DW and I have talked extensively on this since I started this post. She understands now that the gas motor could work. But in our situation it's not ideal. So unless she is ready to accept a smaller 5er, she knows that the diesel is our best option. Surprisingly, once she understood that, telling her we should consider a dually was easy! She understood this kind of back on post #29. Lol
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Old 02-26-2022, 01:32 PM   #71
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The DW and I have talked extensively on this since I started this post. She understands now that the gas motor could work. But in our situation it's not ideal. So unless she is ready to accept a smaller 5er, she knows that the diesel is our best option. Surprisingly, once she understood that, telling her we should consider a dually was easy! She understood this kind of back on post #29. Lol
Mine is the same way and I love her dearly, partly because she is so stubborn at times....
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Old 02-26-2022, 03:29 PM   #72
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The old gas/diesel argument/comparison! Going back to the early 80's when diesels were becoming available in pickups, they weren't a popular option given the noise and smell and lack of power. A 454 C30 or a Ford 460 F-350 was most folks choice for hauling trailers of any weight over say, 5000-8000 pounds, and even so, the trucks were limited in what they were rated to carry. So back then overloading a gasser was pretty much a daily reality as pickups were just not suited (legally) for much heavy hauling.

We've come a long way! While horsepower ratings were quite low on the early diesels the torque numbers were higher that what was possible in the gassers and a few of us came to appreciate the low end grunt that these engines had. Moving into the early/mid 2000's we saw both horsepower and torque numbers on the rise, and although Ford and Chevy had a few hiccups along the way, Dodge stayed with the tried and true Cummins power plant that has made them a very capable commercial pickup truck in the market today. (although I'll bet few of y'all know that the first Dodge diesel pickup powerplant was a Mitsubishi) I see more Ram's out there pulling Hotshot loads on the interstate than the other two options, but Ford comes in second.

By 2011 it was pretty clear that gas engines just couldn't compete with the diesels, at least to me. Will the gas trucks do the job? Sure, and you get lots more payload. But at a trade-off. The diesels will blow by you going up the hills. At much lower rpm's. Torque is a wonderful thing!

It's really an apples to oranges comparison. In the grand scheme of things checking the diesel option may cost you another $9000, but everyone I know that has owned a late model diesel won't go back to a gas engine. And when you get right down to counting pennies (if that's your argument) you can get a diesel Ford F-350 XL for less than what MANY F-150's are going for. Personally, I don't need a King Ranch or a Platinum. That leaves me more money to buy that new SRT Challenger for my wife (that I'll get to drive)!

Get what makes you happy. But as many here have pointed out, do your research carefully and don't have less than you need to safely and comfortably haul what you need. Nothing worse than to buy too little and take the hit trying to upgrade with trading a new truck on another new truck.

And there's always the used truck market, although the price of used vehicles has gone crazy lately. Still, it's an option.

So whatever floats your boat. As for me, I'm staying with diesel. I can afford it and the performance is unrivaled, so why not?
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Old 02-26-2022, 05:38 PM   #73
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I'm not "piling on" (or at least not intentionally) but having owned diesels since the 1980's, the part I highlighted in your post has not been my experience. If you've got time, what "expensive service related to a diesel" do you mean??? For me, it's been a wash in oil changes, tires/transmission/rear end service has been the same as a gas truck and the engine service (oil/filter changes) have been essentially the same. On gas engines, it's a $40 oil/filter change every 5K miles, on a diesel, it's a $79 oil/filter change every 10K miles. As for DEF, $7 every oil change. That equates to about 7/100ths of a penny per mile or increases the oil change from $79 to 86.

What other increased service costs have you encountered ???
I have the same experience as John. I really have not seen and increased service costs
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Old 02-28-2022, 06:11 PM   #74
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Gas Tower

I've been running a 08 F-250 V10 with about 1999. thousand on it now & have been pulling a 2016 Keystone 26 RLS around the Colorado Rocky Mts getting an average millage of 8 - 11 MPG. Been doing this now since I got the 5er new in 2016. I had the truck prior of getting the 5er new in 2016. I pulled a stock trailer prior. Passes are a little slow, 35-40 MPH but I'm never in a hurry. I just sit back & enjoy my coffee !
Just my 2 cents

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Old 02-28-2022, 06:50 PM   #75
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Angry

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I've been running a 08 F-250 V10 with about 1999. thousand on it now & have been pulling a 2016 Keystone 26 RLS around the Colorado Rocky Mts getting an average millage of 8 - 11 MPG. Been doing this now since I got the 5er new in 2016. I had the truck prior of getting the 5er new in 2016. I pulled a stock trailer prior. Passes are a little slow, 35-40 MPH but I'm never in a hurry. I just sit back & enjoy my coffee !
Just my 2 cents

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Your talking a 10,000# max 5er, the OP is looking at 15,000# to 16,400#, that would be struggling with that much weight.
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Old 03-01-2022, 03:44 AM   #76
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Bingo, "around the Colorado Rocky Mts getting an average mileage of 8 - 11 MPG" that is the biggest out and out line of bull crapola I've seen on here since Art Briles was hired at Grambling State.
You suspect I don't know what I'm talking about? (you wouldn't be the first) My last V10 F250 had 365,000 when sold and my wife's Excursion has 300,000 when sold. Both vehicles has thousands of miles towing a 38 foot power boat and trailer, 12,000 pounds, and neither would get 8 MPG coasting downhill.
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Old 03-01-2022, 05:28 AM   #77
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I think the key word phrase here was “average MPG”. When we drove out to pick up our camper, we got 20.5 mpg using 35.7 gallons of gas. Towing it home our “average” was 13.7 mpg (without resetting the trip meter). The reality is that we got 9.7 mpg on the return leg. I could say that I get 13.7 mpg towing, but that would be deceptive.

If you really want to give an accurate representation, reset the trip meter, climb your mountains and then share your fantastic mileage report
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Old 03-01-2022, 05:57 AM   #78
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There's a reason those in the instrument cluster mpg calculators are called a "lie-o-meter" by many. I like to reset it at the top of a hill and watch my incredible milage going down. Now, if I could only find that all downhill route to where I'm going .........
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Old 03-01-2022, 06:27 AM   #79
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There's a reason those in the instrument cluster mpg calculators are called a "lie-o-meter" by many. I like to reset it at the top of a hill and watch my incredible milage going down. Now, if I could only find that all downhill route to where I'm going .........
LOL! I remember watching my instant mileage go to 99 mpg coasting down hill with the 5er in tow or not?
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Old 03-01-2022, 06:36 AM   #80
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The DW and I have talked extensively on this since I started this post. She understands now that the gas motor could work. But in our situation it's not ideal. So unless she is ready to accept a smaller 5er, she knows that the diesel is our best option. Surprisingly, once she understood that, telling her we should consider a dually was easy! She understood this kind of back on post #29. Lol
As the OP you must have found this discussion fascinating.
I know I did. Yes it got off topic at times but got to see some really interesting towing test. (I especially liked the one that was through the Ike tunnel). And it sounds like you will be going with the diesel in a dually. Will be neat to see your rig once everything is lined out.


Thanks for starting this.
Oak
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