Proper tow vehicle ?

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by rhaney

Is anyone towing a cougar 5th wheel half-ton with a F150? I am seriously considering downsizing from an F250 to the new F150 hybrid. It has a towing capacity of 14,000 pounds and a cargo limit of over 2000 pounds, all well with the Limits of my cougar half-ton. I would appreciate any comments from anyone who is towing with this combination.

Cougar "1/2 ton" fifth wheels are generally not "1/2 ton truck" towable safely. What Cougar 1/2 ton do you own? Nothing is indicated on your profile or signature.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by rhaney

Is anyone towing a cougar 5th wheel half-ton with a F150? I am seriously considering downsizing from an F250 to the new F150 hybrid. It has a towing capacity of 14,000 pounds and a cargo limit of over 2000 pounds, all well with the Limits of my cougar half-ton. I would appreciate any comments from anyone who is towing with this combination.

Mr. Haney, It doesn't much matter what Ford claims for the "towing capacity" because most all F150s have insufficient payload to handle ANY 5th wheel. Not sure which Cougar 1/2 Ton Towable you are looking at but a 10K Gross weight 5th wheel has an estimated 23 percent pin weight. 2300 lbs. Add hitch, passengers, cargo in truck and you are at 3000 lbs. The Keystone pin weights advertised are a work of fiction in the real world. I have had MANY F100s, F150s, F250s and F350s and can assure you that your F250 you are considering downsizing from will also be overwhelmed by most 5th wheels unless they are very very light. Open the door on your F250 and read the yellow/white payload placard and you likely have little more than 2000 lbs. payload. Think safety and not marketing hype and exaggerations.

[notanlines]

Well said, George!

[rhaney]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Cougar "1/2 ton" fifth wheels are generally not "1/2 ton truck" towable safely. What Cougar 1/2 ton do you own? Nothing is indicated on your profile or signature.

Cougar CG30RLS 11,000 lb gross 1,545 lb pin weight. My current F250 truck has a 3,350 lb cargo rating on the yellow sticker. The F150 Hybrid has a tow rating of 14,000 pounds

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by rhaney

Cougar CG30RLS 11,000 lb gross 1,545 lb pin weight. My current F250 truck has a 3,350 lb cargo rating on the yellow sticker. The F150 Hybrid has a tow rating of 14,000 pounds

Quoting the published pin weight is an indication that you have never driven over a scale. The Keystone "empty or delivered weights" are about as accurate as a VW deisel mpg claim was before they got fined. "Typical" 5 th wheel pin weights are around 23% of the actual scaled weight. If your loaded for camping you will be vloser to the gross than yo the empty weight. At 11K the pin estimate would be 2,500 lbs.+. Then add the weight of the hitch, the occupants and everything else in the truck and the payload will surpass a 1/2 ton trucks capacity. Depending on what you have loaded/added to uour current truck you may be overloaded.

Go visit a scale. Come back with those scale numbers and a picture of that payload sticker on your truck and we can talk about real numbers.

[rhaney]

My friend owns the feed mill I use. I have been on those scales a number of times. They are commercial certified scales. All my numbers match. I am satisfied with the accuracy of my weights as measured on a certified scale. I appreciate your opinion but I trust Brian’s certified scales over your opinion.

Originally Posted by flybouy

Quoting the published pin weight is an indication that you have never driven over a scale. The Keystone "empty or delivered weights" are about as accurate as a VW deisel mpg claim was before they got fined. "Typical" 5 th wheel pin weights are around 23% of the actual scaled weight. If your loaded for camping you will be vloser to the gross than yo the empty weight. At 11K the pin estimate would be 2,500 lbs.+. Then add the weight of the hitch, the occupants and everything else in the truck and the payload will surpass a 1/2 ton trucks capacity. Depending on what you have loaded/added to uour current truck you may be overloaded.

Go visit a scale. Come back with those scale numbers and a picture of that payload sticker on your truck and we can talk about real numbers.

[KimNTerry]

Originally Posted by rhaney

Cougar CG30RLS 11,000 lb gross 1,545 lb pin weight. My current F250 truck has a 3,350 lb cargo rating on the yellow sticker. The F150 Hybrid has a tow rating of 14,000 pounds

First the tow rating number explained (as I understand it and has been explained to me)

The 14000 pound max tow rating is from the SAE test using a 150 pound driver(I believe they may have added a passenger recently but I could be wrong). It is also for conventional towing assuming a 10% tongue weight using a trailer with little to no frontal area or side walls, basically steel plates on a flatbed NOT an RV profile. Towing capacity changes for "gooseneck/fifth wheel" which assumes 15% pin weight. ON EVERY PAGE of the towing guide clearly spelled out (Bold red type since 2019 not even fine print) informing the user that individual truck limits may change based on model and trim and NOT to exceed the rated GVWR of the vehicle. The payload on the hybrid may go as much as 2000 pounds depending on model and trim options but those will be as rare or even more rare than the HDPP Models and will most likely be less than 2000 pounds payload.

Next is the Pin weight on the trailer. the brochure pin weight of 1545 is 17.22% of the dry weight of 8968. You will add weight to that: batteries, 60 pounds of propane, dishes, clothes toys, etc. using 18% of the 11K Trailer GVWR you have a very conservative 1980 pounds of pin weight (20 shy of the possible 2K) in the bed of your truck and you have not added a hitch, passengers, or anything else. This is too close IMO.

I tow a 1/2 ton fiver with a "1/2 ton truck" but it is the heavy duty payload package with a stickered payload of 2330 pounds. The 1/2 ton towable fifth wheels typically have a pin weight that is 15-18% of GVWR rather than the 20-25% for classic fifth wheels. This is due to the engineering and the fact that the axles are closer to the pin than typical fivers. Mine is right around 17.5% as last scaled and I was fully loaded right at 10,100 (GVWR on my trailer is 10,220) pounds with 1780 on the pin. I go right up to the trucks GVWR with the hitch, wife, dogs incidental and I and I'm sure past it more than once. It did not blow up, make the wheels fall off or cause the world to stop turning BTW. I am always conscience of what gets loaded in the trailer not using a bathroom scale obsessed with it but after 6 seasons with this trailer I know when I'm light or heavy or should not pack something without leaving something behind.

Keep the F250 if you really want to tow a fifth wheel. Of course, you can do whatever you like, it's still a free country (Mostly). If it were me I would keep the 250.

[rhaney]

Thanks. That is the kind of information I am looking for

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by rhaney

My friend owns the feed mill I use. I have been on those scales a number of times. They are commercial certified scales. All my numbers match. I am satisfied with the accuracy of my weights as measured on a certified scale. I appreciate your opinion but I trust Brian’s certified scales over your opinion.

My concern with the above and your statements is that you are using brochure numbers, including specs on the trailer, for guidance despite the highlighted statements above.

KimNTerry gave you some insight and hopefully a little better feel for trying to "downsize" from a 250 to a 150 hybrid to carry a 5th wheel; again, forget the brochure numbers. And, did you see the video on one of the threads earlier showing the hybrid (as I recall) overheating trying to pull a load.....and certainly not near 14k IIRC. I agree with KimNTerry that you should keep the 250.

[wiredgeorge]

Mr. Haney, There is a bit of knowledge here and if you choose to ignore it and get an F150 keep in mind you have been told. The pin weight for ANY fifth wheel that is a non-toy hauler is going to be around 23 percent give or take a percent of the gross weight. My fifth wheel is old (2002) and would now be considered a "half ton towable" but it ain't; not now, not ever. Your F250 has a decent payload and would be much more suitable for dragging a half ton towable. Not sure what your local scales have to do with a truck you don't have or a camper you don't have but God bless you; go forth and try to be safe and remember you have been given good information which you chose to ignore.

[skunked again]

We are at odds with each other over upsizing the frontier.

Today she called a local RV dealer, to get some clarity (her reason for calling them, they aren't trying to sell a vehicle, they have no skin in the game) on payload, towing capacity, etc. Trying to educate herself, KUDO's to her for that !
She told them about our vehicle and trailer. Not any sticker or scale numbers, just a frontier and a 19' camper.
Their response?
Payload only matters if your putting a lot of firewood and such in the bed of the truck, or for a fifth wheel. They continued with saying that, we are perfectly fine with this combination, and if your husband says you aren't, he's simply wanting a newer\bigger truck.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by skunked again

We are at odds with each other over upsizing the frontier.

Today she called a local RV dealer, to get some clarity (her reason for calling them, they aren't trying to sell a vehicle, they have no skin in the game) on payload, towing capacity, etc. Trying to educate herself, KUDO's to her for that !
She told them about our vehicle and trailer. Not any sticker or scale numbers, just a frontier and a 19' camper.
Their response?
Payload only matters if your putting a lot of firewood and such in the bed of the truck, or for a fifth wheel. They continued with saying that, we are perfectly fine with this combination, and if your husband says you aren't, he's simply wanting a newer\bigger truck.

Gary, I guess I just don't know what to say. Did your wife talk to the guy that has owned multiple RVs, tow vehicles, dealt with most anything you encounter with an RV, OR that pimply faced kid (maybe young adult/salesman/service manager etc.) that is still hoping to "one day" own and pull a RV; and THEN begin their learning experience???

You can choose who you want to listen to but I've been in countless RV dealerships, talked to countless RV dealers/sales folks/managers etc.; NONE, and I repeat NONE have ever had a clue about what the heck is going on when you tow. Did I say NONE?

We can all find a way to excuse making bad decisions...sort of. In your case you have been given the straight scoop from those that actually know. Heck, forget calling the dealer; just read a brochure and go to bed feeling comfy and safe....

[Javi]

Sometimes you just have to let the kid stick the fork in the plug.... ��

[skunked again]

sourdough - I have no clue who she talked to. I'm just happy she called someone, to see what they had to say. She tried, for that, I'm grateful.
I'm not sure if you said NONE ? HAHA, JK.

Javi - Yes SIR !


I truly thank all of you for your input.

[flybouy]

So tell your DW the folks on the forum didn't say "Ok, we were just kidding, you'll be fine with your truck.". The numbers are what they are, what you or you're DW do with them is up to you two.

Safe and happy travels.

[jasin1]

I had a guy that worked with me years ago that would come and ask me “ how do you think I should do this or that?…I would stop what I was doing …look at the situation …come up with a plan and say…. “ I would do this ,this and that and do it this way etc” ..spend time explaining and show him how I would do it with my years of experience

After I finished he would say “ well I looked at it and I think I should do it like this”

I’d look at him and say “ wtf did you waste my time then? Do you just like to hear people talk about something when your mind is already made up?”

Then I’d shake my head and go back to work

[skunked again]

what does "DW" mean ?

[flybouy]

DW is Dear Wife.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jasin1

I had a guy that worked with me years ago that would come and ask me “ how do you think I should do this or that?…I would stop what I was doing …look at the situation …come up with a plan and say…. “ I would do this ,this and that and do it this way etc” ..spend time explaining and show him how I would do it with my years of experience

After I finished he would say “ well I looked at it and I think I should do it like this”

I’d look at him and say “ wtf did you waste my time then? Do you just like to hear people talk about something when your mind is already made up?”

Then I’d shake my head and go back to work

I had a friend like that. One day he called me and said "can you come over and look at me car, it won't start". Now this guy was so clueless I knew asking questions would be a waste of time so I drove the couple of miles to his house. I told him to turn on the headlights and turn the key to start. Headlights came on, he turned the key, headlights dimmed then went out and heard a click. When he turned the key off the headlights were very dim.

I said, you have a dead battery. He said, no, that's not the problem. Didn't challenge me to why I could be wrong, didn't ask me how or why I came to that conclusion. My thoughts were well then I guess you know what's wrong and this is just a test? Are you pulling some sort of prank!? Whatever, I didn't have time for it so I turned, walked away and drove home. He called me and asked why I "just walked away without saying a word". I said "to keep from slapping you for wasting my time". A few hours later (after calling a tow truck, and a garage replaced the battery) after spending a lot of unnecessary time and money and apologized for not listening.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rhaney

Cougar CG30RLS 11,000 lb gross 1,545 lb pin weight. My current F250 truck has a 3,350 lb cargo rating on the yellow sticker. The F150 Hybrid has a tow rating of 14,000 pounds

That 14,000 pound "tow rating" is only available in the SuperCrew 5.5' bed (not suitable for towing a fifth wheel) and the SuperCrew 6.5' bed, but not with the "full hybrid" engine.

That 14,000 max trailer rating is also available in the SuperCab (not the SuperCrew) and only with the 3.5L EcoBoost (not the "full hybrid" SuperCrew).

Max tow ratings for the "full hybrid 3.5L EcoBoost" with 3.55 rear gearing is 11,000 pounds and only available in 6.5' bed 4x2 trucks. With 3.73 rear gearing, the max trailer rating is 12,400 pounds and is only available in the 4x4 models with either 5.5' bed (not suitable for fifth wheels) or the 6.5' bed. That rating requires the HD payload and Max Trailering package. Both are rated on the "base model truck". Any options added to the truck or upgrade from XL model will decrease the rating (GCWR) by the weight of all options added to the vehicle...

When it comes to "reading specifications charts" there are way too many "gotcha's" in every column. You can't look through them and come up with anything but a "best build configuration" that doesn't represent any truck an RV enthusiast would order. Unless you want a base model truck with vinyl seats, no cruise, no electric windows, no carpeting, nothing but the basic "lightest weight equals highest ratings" vehicle. That's the kind of truck that "charts sell to unsuspecting customers" who, when they open the driver's door and look at the stickers on their "special order truck" are disappointed to find that their "Lariat 4x4" has only half the payload that the chart boasted.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK !!!!!