Do I really need a dually?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Snoking

I highlighted the most important one for towing a 5th wheel trailer, with a SRW truck. Chris

I give up. To me, it's not a "choose one and be done" but then I'm not driving your truck so you're certainly free to do it your way. I'll do mine, my way.... Cheers...

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I give up. To me, it's not a "choose one and be done" but then I'm not driving your truck so you're certainly free to do it your way. I'll do mine, my way.... Cheers...

My point was that a 5th wheels pin weight all goes on the rear axle and it is easy to overload it. It's rating is based on tires or very close to the tires max rating, something one would not want to exceed. GVWR is a manufactures warranty number. GCWRings are getting ridiculous high and associated pin weights with these high number overload a rear axle easily.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Snoking

My point was that a 5th wheels pin weight all goes on the rear axle and it is easy to overload it. It's rating is based on tires or very close to the tires max rating, something one would not want to exceed. GVWR is a manufactures warranty number. GCWRings are getting ridiculous high and associated pin weights with these high number overload a rear axle easily.

I agree with you both. If you stay within all parameters there won't be an issue. If you try to max one item an individual HAS to keep in mind the rest. As Snoking suggests, if a person thinks they are under max tow, carry one person and a bag of popcorn in the truck (in their mind) and put the rest into pin weight....they are very probably going to have an issue.....which takes us back to John's point. They are all equally important and we need to look at all of them to avoid some sort of potential problem.

Now, it's time to change channels for a moment, find the George Jones remix of "It's finally Friday" and listen to that. These pressure filled retirement Fridays can really "take it out of ya"....

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

............

It's not until you "see the entire picture" (GVWR, GCWR, RAWR, FAWR, PAYLOAD) that you can understand what towing requires. ........

Originally Posted by Snoking

I highlighted the most important one for towing a 5th wheel trailer, with a SRW truck. Chris

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I give up. To me, it's not a "choose one and be done" but then I'm not driving your truck so you're certainly free to do it your way. I'll do mine, my way.... Cheers...

Originally Posted by Snoking

My point was that a 5th wheels pin weight all goes on the rear axle and it is easy to overload it. It's rating is based on tires or very close to the tires max rating, something one would not want to exceed. GVWR is a manufactures warranty number. GCWRings are getting ridiculous high and associated pin weights with these high number overload a rear axle easily.

John, What I believe that Chris is trying to point out is with the newer high GVWR SRW truck, it is possible to exceed the GAWR on the rear axle with a 5er, while still within the GVWR.
Time was that one could be 1,700# over GVWR, and still within both axle ratings (my old 2001 Ram 2500).

Now days you have 6,000# front axles 7,200# rear axles total 13,200# on a truck with a 12,300# GVWR, that is a 900# difference. Consider that even a diesel has about 300# to 400# spare on the front axle that is down to as little as 500# difference.

[ctbruce]

The real question is this: WHY IS THIS STUFF SO DAMN HARD?

We write brochures and stuff at a 6th grade reading level but towing guidelines are written like a PhD thesis.

If a truck manufacturer were to just simply state you can do this and you can't do this, they would rule the kingdom.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by ctbruce

The real question is this: WHY IS THIS STUFF SO DAMN HARD?

We write brochures and stuff at a 6th grade reading level but towing guidelines are written like a PhD thesis.

If a truck manufacturer were to just simply state you can do this and you can't do this, they would rule the kingdom. Attachment 24882

It isn’t hard at all...it’s just not presented in a manner that people today can understand. Maybe an “app for that”?

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by ctbruce

The real question is this: WHY IS THIS STUFF SO DAMN HARD?

We write brochures and stuff at a 6th grade reading level but towing guidelines are written like a PhD thesis.

If a truck manufacturer were to just simply state you can do this and you can't do this, they would rule the kingdom. Attachment 24882

The issue with the current brochures is that they all post mainly MAXIMUM numbers!
Maybe it should it should be pointed out as the truck gets more refined with options, the Maximum tow rating goes down.
Vehicle manufactures also need to start using 20% pins as a basis for how large a 5th wheel could be towed.
They also need to put more emphasis on GVWR, GAWR and tire ratings.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by ctbruce

The real question is this: WHY IS THIS STUFF SO DAMN HARD?

We write brochures and stuff at a 6th grade reading level but towing guidelines are written like a PhD thesis.

If a truck manufacturer were to just simply state you can do this and you can't do this, they would rule the kingdom. Attachment 24882

Not always but very often someone is looking for another to read the numbers in an abstract manner to show his TV is up to the task although he is certain or suspects he does not have enough truck. This not rocket science, a brain surgeon is not needed to do the simple math. If math says you are over you need more truck, less trailer or on a seasonal site. Always be on the safe side of the numbers.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by hguilford

I have compiled a detailed list of pros and cons for buying a new TV with DRW, and for one with SRW. Looking at the 2019 Silverado 3500HD models with 6.6L Duramax diesel, both are plenty capable of pulling my Keystone Avalanche A320RS. Prices are very similar so that's not a big factor. I could always flip a coin but that's not how I work. I will analyze this to death, read hundreds of blogs and posts, use lots of paper making computations and calculations, and run various algorithms, to come up with the best option (mostly said in jest). I appreciate and value the responses and advice from the members of this forum but would rather hear from those who have faced this dilemma. I want to know if there is any valid way to come to a conclusion, other than personal preference. Thanks, and happy camping!

Originally Posted by hguilford

UPDATE: What a tangled web we weave! Okay, to clarify my 2500 is a long bed 4WD and empty wt is listed as 11,530. I haven't put it on a scale but with minimal stuff we've added I may be just a little over 12,000. Yesterday I spent almost an hour on the phone with Chevrolet. The CSR came back with a tow limit of 12,400 lbs. Called the dealership and spoke with a low level sales manager who was no help at all. So this morning I went to the dealership and was shown the tow chart that Chevrolet sends to all the dealerships for the sales staff to use. It shows tow limit is 13,500 lbs. That's a little better but still in conflict with what GM and Chevrolet said. Went to the lead dog, general sales manager, and explained my situation. He and my sales consultant went to a computer and found another completely separate tow chart from what the sales staff has been using and it also showed a tow limit of 12,400 lbs. WHAT A CAN OF WORMS! So, where do we go from here? Bottom line - I can't/won't be able to use this truck to tow my 5er. The dealership is working with GM for a solution and once they have something we WILL get this resolved. In the meantime I have let them know I will most likely be filing a consumer complaint against GM/Chevrolet with my state Attorney General for false and misleading advertising, given all the conflicting data that's at the dealership, online at Chevrolet.com, etc. Hopefully they will clean this up and I won't have to go that far. No wonder this is such a hot topic on this site. Unless the 2020 data is also tainted I feel a 3500HD SRW will be more than adequate for my 5er, but to avoid any future heart ache and sleepless nights I may opt for a 3500 dually after all. Don't anyone dare say I told you so!! More to follow.

Originally Posted by hguilford

Sorry, been away for a while dealing with some "STUFF" but I read everything and take it all with a grain of salt. I will say that I have considered EVERYTHING when deciding on a TV. I guess I should have posted more info, like the fact the DW and I will NEVER be full time RVers and won't ever fully load the 5er. As a matter of fact we only have the essentials in the 5er and the wife ALWAYS drives her SUV when we travel, so that is the vehicle that gets loaded, not the 5er or TV. The other consideration is that the TV is my every day driver and a dually, although great for heavier loads and long hauls, isn't a practical option at this point. The DW won't retire for a few more years so we only travel and camp within a days drive. The A320RS is a comfortable size for the two of us and two small dogs so it is unlikely we will ever upgrade to anything bigger and heavier. If anything we may consider a motorhome rather than upgrading the RV. So, all that said I will keep what I currently have unless or until something major changes. Thanks to all for your input.

Well I have picked up some of the OP's post.
He comes asking if he should get a 3500 SRW or get a 3500 DRW, NEVER mentioned thinking of a 2500!

He also mentions that the DW drives her SUV hauling most of the stuff in it not the TV or 5er, sorry I will say this will get old fast. If she is hauling the food, cloths, bedding, chairs, and BBQ, not only will loading and unloading of that stuff get old, traveling separately is for the birds.
We full time and only have one vehicle a 2016 Ram 3500 CC DRW, we both drive and go where we want. When we started full timing we had two vehicles, the other was a 2012 Chevy Equinox, she despised following me when we moved.

Here are the numbers for OP's 5er
2018 Keystone Avalanche 320RS Specifications
Dry Weight 11,530#
Payload Capacity 3,470#
GVWR 15,000#
Hitch Weight Dry 2,275#
Length 36' 10"

The OP thinks he has only added about 500# of stuff to the 5er, personally I believe that would be batteries and propane.
The dry pin is at just shy of 20%, but I don't see that holding.

To the OP, don't blame the Dealer, or GM for false advertising, the information you got from the members of this forum should have directed you to a minimum of a 3500 SRW, you might get it to 13,500# to 14,000# as you use it more.

I guess what I don't understand is looking to buy a barely capable TV to carry/tow your 5er.

[hguilford]

First off let me apologize for my original post and not following through with my initial intent of buying a dually. True, we don't full-time and never will so having a dually as an everyday driver was never appealing to me. Bottom line - I SCREWED UP!! I did this to myself and if GM/Chevrolet and my dealership tell me to suck it up and move on then that's what I'll do. In the meantime my 5er will continue to sit in winter storage not to be used until I get a new TV. Yes, it will be a dually. As humbling as it is to be made a fool I appreciate all your posts and suggestions. I should have followed my own advice in the first place.

[Tbos]

I hope you are able to make a deal to upgrade your TV. Don’t be too hard on yourself.

[JRTJH]

Thanks for responding with your updated situation. Hopefully GM and your dealership will come through with the help you need to make a less painful transition to the tow vehicle you need. Good luck with that process as it unfolds. When all is said and done, post the photos of your new rig and then hit the road to enjoy your new trailer.

[Fishsizzle]

Congrats! On the new Whip

[Snoking]

Here I tipped it upright for you. Hard on the passenger side and mirror the way you parked it. Chris

[hguilford]

Thanks! I have no idea how you did that.

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by hguilford

Thanks! I have no idea how you did that.

Saved it onto my Windows 10 computer, opened and rotated it to be tires down. Then uploaded it in my post. Chris

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by hguilford

It's a done deal!

Congrats! That's a good looking truck!

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Congrats! That's a good looking truck!

I agree, you will get use to the hips the more you drive it.

[cookinwitdiesel]

That should get you from A to B

[hguilford]

I guess third time's a charm.