Is my truck enough ?

[cookinwitdiesel]

Where I live (northern VA) only the newest and most accommodating spaces are wide enough to comfortably park my 2500 (new mall, or Costco). Most parking lots I have maybe 4" on each side of the truck once I carefully center it in the space and fold in the mirrors. A DRW would be even tougher in that environment.

When I was down in Florida a few weeks ago for work, it seemed like every parking space was designed to comfortably fit a DRW anywhere I went lol. My rental Mazda 3 felt extremely comfortable to park

[GregBiloxi]

I bought my Cougar 1/2 ton and planned to pull it with my 1500 Silverado. The tongue weight was advertised at 880lbs so I thought I was fine, and the sales guys said it would be fine too. After loading the camper and carrying about an 8th of a tank of water, my tongue weight was about 1,100lbs.

1,500 truck is gone and I now own a 2500 Silverado diesel. Do the math, and best of luck.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Originally Posted by GregBiloxi

I bought my Cougar 1/2 ton and planned to pull it with my 1500 Silverado. The tongue weight was advertised at 880lbs so I thought I was fine, and the sales guys said it would be fine too. After loading the camper and carrying about an 8th of a tank of water, my tongue weight was about 1,100lbs.

1,500 truck is gone and I now own a 2500 Silverado diesel. Do the math, and best of luck.

Small word of caution, if driving with fresh water, it is best to completely fill the tank. That way the mass is non-shifting and acts as a "solid". If the tank is only partially full the water will slosh around exerting its force in a non-uniform fashion that will impact trailer driving dynamics and could introduce sway.

A half full tank sloshing around can exert much higher forces than a full tank that is "static" when driving/turning.

[Cfitzkp]

Originally Posted by GMcKenzie

The issue you have is with the payload of your current truck. That's what you run out of before anything else.

Look at the payload number for a 250/2500 Diesel and you will find you don't gain much.

If you want diesel, go 350/3500.

Gas 250/2500 should have a decent payload. In the 3K range.Generally enough for a TT, but not enough for a 5th wheel.

The thing is im not over on my payload with this set up im around 1650lbs and thats including hitch passangers tongue and couple other things and sticker on truck says 1775lbs

[MarkEHansen]

You're understating your tongue weight. You keep saying that you will tow the trailer empty so the empty TW is appropriate, but that's not going to be the case. I'd wager if you go to a cat scale and weigh the tongue of your trailer, you'll be surprised. The number published by the manufacturer should not be used for this purpose.

Also, you need to consider the size of the trailer (width, height, length) and how that will react to your 1/2-ton TV.

The only realistic value to use need to be based on the GVW of the trailer, not the empty weight. This has been said multiple times. Take those numbers and go through the whole check: payload, GCWR, AWR (rear and front), etc. If you do this, I think you'll start to see.

If you want to continue to based your logic on the empty weight of the trailer, then as I said before, the odds are against you.

By the way, I was where you are - making the same argument. It took me a while to see it. Listen to the folks saying the same thing. I've been towing for a few years (30 or so, I think) - some of them even longer.

Best of luck.

[GregBiloxi]

Originally Posted by GMcKenzie

The issue you have is with the payload of your current truck. That's what you run out of before anything else.

Look at the payload number for a 250/2500 Diesel and you will find you don't gain much.

If you want diesel, go 350/3500.

Gas 250/2500 should have a decent payload. In the 3K range.Generally enough for a TT, but not enough for a 5th wheel.

Agreed, this just happened to be where my holding tanks were when I weighed it. I do not tow it this way. Generally empty.

[Cfitzkp]

Originally Posted by MarkEHansen

You're understating your tongue weight. You keep saying that you will tow the trailer empty so the empty TW is appropriate, but that's not going to be the case. I'd wager if you go to a cat scale and weigh the tongue of your trailer, you'll be surprised. The number published by the manufacturer should not be used for this purpose.

Also, you need to consider the size of the trailer (width, height, length) and how that will react to your 1/2-ton TV.

The only realistic value to use need to be based on the GVW of the trailer, not the empty weight. This has been said multiple times. Take those numbers and go through the whole check: payload, GCWR, AWR (rear and front), etc. If you do this, I think you'll start to see.

If you want to continue to based your logic on the empty weight of the trailer, then as I said before, the odds are against you.

By the way, I was where you are - making the same argument. It took me a while to see it. Listen to the folks saying the same thing. I've been towing for a few years (30 or so, I think) - some of them even longer.

Best of luck.

I am definitely hearing everything your saying and i appreciate the feedback if you dont mind me asking what was your situation and what made you change

[66joej]

Originally Posted by Cfitzkp

I wanted to get bigger truck in future might get one sooner should i got with the f250 or f350 gas/diesel?

Pretty sure I'm old school on the gas vs. diesel truck thing. Our truck is a daily driver and trips are about 10 miles. My thinking and this is just my personal opinion a diesel engine will not reach operating temperature with the short runs. Diesels work best at full operating temps.
Armed with this info we went with the 3500 gasser. More than enough HP (410), Torque (430) and payload (3810#) to carry the tongue weight and pull our TT. YMMV

[GMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by Cfitzkp

The thing is im not over on my payload with this set up im around 1650lbs and thats including hitch passangers tongue and couple other things and sticker on truck says 1775lbs

I haven't gone through the whole thread, but is this based on paper numbers or a scale reading?

My trailer brochure shows my tongue weight at 630 lbs. Scale said 480 kgs when I weighed without water. So 1,056 lbs.

I've got 2000 lbs payload and am at my limit with my trailer, GVW of 8,200. Again, as per the scale.

[GMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by 66joej

Pretty sure I'm old school on the gas vs. diesel truck thing. Our truck is a daily driver and trips are about 10 miles. My thinking and this is just my personal opinion a diesel engine will not reach operating temperature with the short runs. Diesels work best at full operating temps.
Armed with this info we went with the 3500 gasser. More than enough HP (410), Torque (430) and payload (3810#) to carry the tongue weight and pull our TT. YMMV

I'm the same. I had a 2001 Dmax 2500, but with a 3km one way daily commute, I was killing the damn thing.

What I have now is bare minimum. But I (being a GM guy) am really intrigued by the 2020 GMC specs. Payload is just shy of 4K (per the published specs).

[Cfitzkp]

Originally Posted by GMcKenzie

I haven't gone through the whole thread, but is this based on paper numbers or a scale reading?

My trailer brochure shows my tongue weight at 630 lbs. Scale said 480 kgs when I weighed without water. So 1,056 lbs.

I've got 2000 lbs payload and am at my limit with my trailer, GVW of 8,200. Again, as per the scale.

Thats tongue from paper. Not towing with water in tank. What kind of truck do u have with a payload of 2000

[MarkEHansen]

Originally Posted by Cfitzkp

I am definitely hearing everything your saying and i appreciate the feedback if you dont mind me asking what was your situation and what made you change

We had a 2018 GMC Yukon Denali. We had a max tow value of (I think) 8200 lbs and our trailer was GVR of 8800lbs. We told the RV dealer that we were not planning on towing with the tanks full, so we felt we were not over the limit.

The published tongue weight for our trailer was also pretty light, as something like 760lbs, when in reality, it's much closer to 1000lbs.

The real lesson was while towing the trailer. I never felt like it was going to go out of control, but it was a lot of white-knuckle driving. Of course, that doesn't account for the possible emergency/urgent situations. If one of those had happened (animal on the road, tire failure, idiot cutting me off, etc.), things could have easily gone south very quickly. I really don't like to think about it.

After the first trip with the trailer (about a 5-hour drive) I was exhausted. During those few days camping, we talked mostly about replacing the Yukon with a more capable truck.

This was a really hard decision, as we paid a premium price for the Yukon and it was less than 8 months since we purchased it brand new. We took a real bath on the trade-in value. I justified it by knowing we were much safer and in a few years, the money lost will be forgotten.

Now that I have a capable truck, I look back over my years of towing and realize I've been in the danger zone much more than I should have allowed. I feel that in some cases, I'm quite lucky I got out without any major incident.

This forum has been a great help in teaching my why those numbers are important.

Best Regards,

[Cfitzkp]

Originally Posted by MarkEHansen

We had a 2018 GMC Yukon Denali. We had a max tow value of (I think) 8200 lbs and our trailer was GVR of 8800lbs. We told the RV dealer that we were not planning on towing with the tanks full, so we felt we were not over the limit.

The published tongue weight for our trailer was also pretty light, as something like 760lbs, when in reality, it's much closer to 1000lbs.

The real lesson was while towing the trailer. I never felt like it was going to go out of control, but it was a lot of white-knuckle driving. Of course, that doesn't account for the possible emergency/urgent situations. If one of those had happened (animal on the road, tire failure, idiot cutting me off, etc.), things could have easily gone south very quickly. I really don't like to think about it.

After the first trip with the trailer (about a 5-hour drive) I was exhausted. During those few days camping, we talked mostly about replacing the Yukon with a more capable truck.

This was a really hard decision, as we paid a premium price for the Yukon and it was less than 8 months since we purchased it brand new. We took a real bath on the trade-in value. I justified it by knowing we were much safer and in a few years, the money lost will be forgotten.

Now that I have a capable truck, I look back over my years of towing and realize I've been in the danger zone much more than I should have allowed. I feel that in some cases, I'm quite lucky I got out without any major incident.

This forum has been a great help in teaching my why those numbers are important.

Best Regards,

I guess im in that boat my truck tow capacity is 9100lbs and my trailer gvwr is 9400lbs never going to tow with fluid in tanks for that reason and only loading very light bc of the truck i have right now. the ride home wasnt bad at all first time towing and def feel that sumthing is back there cruised at 65mph np. i do know i need a bigger truck in the future

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Cfitzkp

I guess im in that boat my truck tow capacity is 9100lbs and my trailer gvwr is 9400lbs never going to tow with fluid in tanks for that reason and only loading very light bc of the truck i have right now. the ride home wasnt bad at all first time towing and def feel that sumthing is back there cruised at 65mph np. i do know i need a bigger truck in the future

So many novice RV'ers say (and believe) they will never get into a situation where they need to tow with water or waste water. Most find that the first time they get into a campground with no water, that changes. Then, consider the weekend trip to a state park with water and electricity at the site and a dump station at the park entrance. You check in Friday night, plan to leave Sunday morning, get hitched, tow to the dump station with FULL TO THE BRIM gray and black tanks, only to find three orange cones blocking entrance to the dump station and a park ranger waving people to the entrance. You stop to ask him what's going on, he tells you that the dump is closed because someone plugged the drain with something and it will be late that evening before they can get it unstopped.

You ask him where the nearest dump station is, he shrugs his shoulders and says, "I think there's one about 40 miles west." You tell him, 'I'm going east" and he says, "There isn't one until you get to "XX town" which is 125 miles from here.".....

So much for your, "I will never tow with fluid in the tanks, as you now have two 38 gallon gray tanks and a 38 gallon black tank. That's 114 gallons of "unplanned weight" for a total of around 950 pounds of "I'll never tow with fluids".....

I can't tell you how many times I've been in situations that I "planned never to encounter"..... You'll be there too.

There's one member of our forum, who NEVER had encountered sway, didn't realize the issues, so wasn't concerned because it's always been easy towing with my rig..... Until he was 150 miles from home, trying to get back from a nice weekend, encountered 30+ MPH gusting sidewinds and "white-knuckled his way home".... His solution, invest in a $3000 hitch on Monday morning....

Most of us have been where you are. Trust me when I tell you that not a one of us wants you to spend money needlessly, not a one of us wants to discourage you from RVing. Every one of us wants you and your family to be safe while you enjoy what we all enjoy. We're not trying to EXCLUDE you from RVing. We're trying to help you make the experience safe, pleasant, rewarding and something you enjoy, not something you dread to do because you're exhausted when you get there Friday evening and only have the trip back home to worry about Sunday.....

We want you to keep RVing, not do it until you hurt someone or until you damage your rig and realize that it's dangerous and you don't want to do it any more.... Avoid that kind of experience and you'll always enjoy having the proper equipment.

[Cfitzkp]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

So many novice RV'ers say (and believe) they will never get into a situation where they need to tow with water or waste water. Most find that the first time they get into a campground with no water, that changes. Then, consider the weekend trip to a state park with water and electricity at the site and a dump station at the park entrance. You check in Friday night, plan to leave Sunday morning, get hitched, tow to the dump station with FULL TO THE BRIM gray and black tanks, only to find three orange cones blocking entrance to the dump station and a park ranger waving people to the entrance. You stop to ask him what's going on, he tells you that the dump is closed because someone plugged the drain with something and it will be late that evening before they can get it unstopped.

You ask him where the nearest dump station is, he shrugs his shoulders and says, "I think there's one about 40 miles west." You tell him, 'I'm going east" and he says, "There isn't one until you get to "XX town" which is 125 miles from here.".....

So much for your, "I will never tow with fluid in the tanks, as you now have two 38 gallon gray tanks and a 38 gallon black tank. That's 114 gallons of "unplanned weight" for a total of around 950 pounds of "I'll never tow with fluids".....

I can't tell you how many times I've been in situations that I "planned never to encounter"..... You'll be there too.

There's one member of our forum, who NEVER had encountered sway, didn't realize the issues, so wasn't concerned because it's always been easy towing with my rig..... Until he was 150 miles from home, trying to get back from a nice weekend, encountered 30+ MPH gusting sidewinds and "white-knuckled his way home".... His solution, invest in a $3000 hitch on Monday morning....

Most of us have been where you are. Trust me when I tell you that not a one of us wants you to spend money needlessly, not a one of us wants to discourage you from RVing. Every one of us wants you and your family to be safe while you enjoy what we all enjoy. We're not trying to EXCLUDE you from RVing. We're trying to help you make the experience safe, pleasant, rewarding and something you enjoy, not something you dread to do because you're exhausted when you get there Friday evening and only have the trip back home to worry about Sunday.....

We want you to keep RVing, not do it until you hurt someone or until you damage your rig and realize that it's dangerous and you don't want to do it any more.... Avoid that kind of experience and you'll always enjoy having the proper equipment.

For that reason we are only going to one camprground we are familiar with that have full hookup bc of my situation. Im thankful for your input and look foward to future rving

[MarkEHansen]

Originally Posted by Cfitzkp

I guess im in that boat my truck tow capacity is 9100lbs and my trailer gvwr is 9400lbs never going to tow with fluid in tanks for that reason and only loading very light bc of the truck i have right now. the ride home wasnt bad at all first time towing and def feel that sumthing is back there cruised at 65mph np. i do know i need a bigger truck in the future

I think you're almost there. Now ... what will you do when something unexpected happens. John talked about being unable to dump the tanks, and that's a good one, but there are other things, like the amount of effort and skill required to control the rig when you get a big wind (like from a semi-truck passing you) or an animal jumping out in front of you and you have to swerve suddenly or a tire failure on the truck or trailer, etc.

These events can be challenging in a properly equipped rig (combo).

I thought you were just not listening before. I'm quite happy to see that I was wrong about that. As John said, everyone here just wants to help you. This is all just food for thought. The decision is yours.

Best Regards,

[rjrelander]

We bought our truck used to replace another one that was pretty much worn out. Just needed something for general use and weren't even thinking about the possibility of looking at trailers. A month later we ended up at an RV dealer and bought our "cute little baby trailer" (to quote the DW) on the spot. Didn't know a thing about towing but it was small enough to get our feet wet and maybe move up to something bigger later.

We lucked out since I found out later that we had the 3.08 "highway axle ratio" so our wings were clipped at about 6200# towing capacity anyway. The 21 foot (with hitch) trailer at 4400# GVWR turned out to be a good match for both our TV and my initial towing/backing skill level. Hopefully, that 3500 diesel DRW and a bigger trailer is on the horizon.

[sourdough]

As was said, you will come to a point you will have to run with fluids by necessity or some unplanned circumstance. You just can't run that close to your max weights. You also said you load very light right now due to the truck. That won't last either. Why go camping if you can't take all the things that make camping enjoyable? Been there, done that. Departing for a camping trip with the grill, jacks, bicycles, tools, etc. etc. etc. sitting there in the barn as you drive away with the RV.....without that "new fangled" InstaPot, no extra jeans, shoes, coats, boots, RV essentials, cookware, silverware, pots/skillets, and on and on and on.....is depressing....every time.

In addition to the above, towing at the limit in a 1/2 ton is just plain not fun. I used to literally dread hitting a long run and knowing there was going to be a breeze. By the end of a 6 hour towing day I was totally exhausted from trying to keep everything somewhere between my lines; constantly scanning the mirrors for anything coming up on me so I could tense and brace up to prepare for the push/pull when they came by. And I thought it was going well!! BTW, that was with upgraded LT tires, air bags and Bilstein shocks.

Bought a 3/4 HD gas truck. 3200 lb. payload. Hooked up the trailer and took off. Hmmm, "that semi just blew by me and I didn't know it"......"hey, the winds kicked up to 30mph...and I don't know it"!! Woo Hoo!! Some real life comments I've made to myself after upgrading. I also ENJOY hooking the trailer up and going; I can look at things and feel relaxed. I have zero worries what the weather is (unless hail, tornado etc.). And you know, back there, in the bed of the truck, under my locking bed cover, are my jacks, tools, bbq pit/stand, dehumidifier, picnic table, blocks, ice chest, etc. etc. that I couldn't take in the other truck due to limitations.

On top of all that is an even more important reason to have an adequate truck for the trailer you tow; I feel safe now. I don't look over at my wife driving down the road knowing she's trusting me to keep her safe and I'm not...knowingly. The other drivers on the road trust me to do that as well, now I am.

Others have posted numbers for you. You will be overweight if you actually load the truck/trailer to use. Overweight, or even close to overweight in a 1/2 ton truck is dangerous - there have been many posts as to why. You should always have a minimum of 15% cushion from your max numbers IMO - all of them.

A 3/4 ton gas HD truck will take care of what you have just fine. But, if you think you may ever want anything bigger you should just get the 1 ton. Whether gas/diesel, SRW or DRW all depend on what it is that you think is in your future. Personally I'll be replacing trucks soon. I will be going with a 1 ton SRW. Don't know about gas/diesel yet. The purchase price isn't much different and I should pick up 8-900lbs. in payload. I didn't want a 3/4 ton because they ride so rough and I had had a bad back for 32 years and a stiff truck killed me. Well, a gallbladder removal fixed that unbeknownst to me or my doc at the time!! Miracle! Now, bring on that 1 ton!

[Cfitzkp]

Originally Posted by sourdough

As was said, you will come to a point you will have to run with fluids by necessity or some unplanned circumstance. You just can't run that close to your max weights. You also said you load very light right now due to the truck. That won't last either. Why go camping if you can't take all the things that make camping enjoyable? Been there, done that. Departing for a camping trip with the grill, jacks, bicycles, tools, etc. etc. etc. sitting there in the barn as you drive away with the RV.....without that "new fangled" InstaPot, no extra jeans, shoes, coats, boots, RV essentials, cookware, silverware, pots/skillets, and on and on and on.....is depressing....every time.

In addition to the above, towing at the limit in a 1/2 ton is just plain not fun. I used to literally dread hitting a long run and knowing there was going to be a breeze. By the end of a 6 hour towing day I was totally exhausted from trying to keep everything somewhere between my lines; constantly scanning the mirrors for anything coming up on me so I could tense and brace up to prepare for the push/pull when they came by. And I thought it was going well!! BTW, that was with upgraded LT tires, air bags and Bilstein shocks.

Bought a 3/4 HD gas truck. 3200 lb. payload. Hooked up the trailer and took off. Hmmm, "that semi just blew by me and I didn't know it"......"hey, the winds kicked up to 30mph...and I don't know it"!! Woo Hoo!! Some real life comments I've made to myself after upgrading. I also ENJOY hooking the trailer up and going; I can look at things and feel relaxed. I have zero worries what the weather is (unless hail, tornado etc.). And you know, back there, in the bed of the truck, under my locking bed cover, are my jacks, tools, bbq pit/stand, dehumidifier, picnic table, blocks, ice chest, etc. etc. that I couldn't take in the other truck due to limitations.

On top of all that is an even more important reason to have an adequate truck for the trailer you tow; I feel safe now. I don't look over at my wife driving down the road knowing she's trusting me to keep her safe and I'm not...knowingly. The other drivers on the road trust me to do that as well, now I am.

Others have posted numbers for you. You will be overweight if you actually load the truck/trailer to use. Overweight, or even close to overweight in a 1/2 ton truck is dangerous - there have been many posts as to why. You should always have a minimum of 15% cushion from your max numbers IMO - all of them.

A 3/4 ton gas HD truck will take care of what you have just fine. But, if you think you may ever want anything bigger you should just get the 1 ton. Whether gas/diesel, SRW or DRW all depend on what it is that you think is in your future. Personally I'll be replacing trucks soon. I will be going with a 1 ton SRW. Don't know about gas/diesel yet. The purchase price isn't much different and I should pick up 8-900lbs. in payload. I didn't want a 3/4 ton because they ride so rough and I had had a bad back for 32 years and a stiff truck killed me. Well, a gallbladder removal fixed that unbeknownst to me or my doc at the time!! Miracle! Now, bring on that 1 ton!

You guys are the best thats why i joined a forum bc i wanted to learn from people with experiences bc im new to all of this. Experience knows best. And we are thinking of doing a seasonal next year and possibly for longer so just need to get pass this season until we can afford a bigger truck if we decide to venture out
But you guys think a F250 gas would work? Idk if i want to go diesel due to be an everyday vehicle

[Gegrad]

I can understand getting caught with your tanks full trying to hit the dump station and it is closed for one reason or another. But I can say in the 60+ different trips we have taken in the last 4+ years we have NEVER carried a drop of fresh water in the tank. And if we got to a park where the water was cut off when we checked in, well, we would pull right out and turn around, ha. Not defending anything at all, just commenting on that if OP says he won't carry any fresh water, well, that is certainly possible. And can be considered when calculating loads.