TV is a SUV

[linux3]

I pull our Passport 195RB with a Ford Explorer Sport.
After testing every brand and type of truck I bought the SUV.
I very seldom see another SUV pulling anything but a pop-up.
What's up with that?
The Sport model has the Ecoboost 3.5 and very firm suspension and works great as our TV.
OK, the price is equal to or greater than a F150 but better I think as a daily driver.

Only down side is the 18.6 gal tank. I get 11 ~ 12 MPG so I have to stop for gas about every 2 hours. My wife thinks that's a good thing.

Are there others out there and I'm just not seeing them?

[sourdough]

I think that you don't see many SUVs pulling RVs is because they aren't meant to be tow vehicles; they are basically passenger vehicles. Even in the old days when they were body on frame, big V8 etc. they were never meant to be a "tow" vehicle. In your case, even with a rather small trailer, the published weights of the trailer exceed the towing capacity of your vehicle; max trailer weight and tongue weight. I own a 2017 Explorer and wouldn't dream of putting anything behind it but a small utility trailer - just not stable enough to compensate for the push/pull of a slab sided trailer behind it.

You're right, they are great as a daily driver....but that's what they were designed to be.

[Ken / Claudia]

I agree with post #2 100%. I am not saying you cannot. The makers make pickups for what your asking the SUV to do. My real life experience was with the 2008 exp 5.0 awd. Once awhile I would pull the listed boat with it. Really 40 mph up big hills. I now have a 2002 trail blazer I6 4x4. And tow the boat a few times with it. When I tow the boat with the listed truck, there is a big difference. Mostly about the wheel base length and width, secondly power. Until you tow with a truck, and a HD truck you may not understand the real difference it makes. Locally here a big RV dealer was commenting on what sells the most. He said the 22 to 26 footers sell more than any other TT because of the many people who want to tow with a SUV. If you follow this site much you will find those who did tow with a suv and did not like it and have a pickup now, all say what a difference. Some tow with a suv and say it is fine. Check your tires max wt. rating and weight your suv and trailer, check your GVWR and CGVWR and for your safety and the motoring public stay within or real close to the max numbers with your vehicles. With any suv it is easy to be overloaded and yes I did it years ago with nisson pathfinder and 2 tts a 14 ft and than a 19 ft. Shortly after the 19 fter came into the driveway so did a f150.

[CaptnJohn]

My wife enjoyed her Explorer as a daily driver until she retired and we moved south. The boats and TTs we had at the time were more than I'd hook up to it though. The numbers on it were about right for a popup as you mentioned. Short wheelbase TVs ~~

[RGene7001]

Why?
Because most people like easy solutions, but there is virtually no SUV on the market which has both capability and ratings to tow a decent size TT.
Tahoes and Expeditions have generous tow and hitch ratings but unfavorable rear overhang/ wheelbase ratio and softer suspensions kill their stabilty with TT and many people become disappointed with them
German midsize SUVs are excellent in terms of geometry, design and powertrain capability but most suffer from weak hitch receivers, either with insufficient rating or just incompatible with WD hitches, so aftermarket modification is necessary (and there is only one place on the continent where this can be done well).
The best towing SUVs on the market are probably Jeep Grand Cherokee and Dodge Durango, they feature Mercedes platform and hitch receiver capable to handle up to 720 lb with WD.
Passport 195 RB is quite lite and small, so the new Explorer should handle it without difficulty, the only question is how soon you will want something bigger and with more amenities.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RGene7001

Why?
Because most people like easy solutions, but there is virtually no SUV on the market which has both capability and ratings to tow a decent size TT.
Tahoes and Expeditions have generous tow and hitch ratings but unfavorable rear overhang/ wheelbase ratio and softer suspensions kill their stabilty with TT and many people become disappointed with them
German midsize SUVs are excellent in terms of geometry, design and powertrain capability but most suffer from weak hitch receivers, either with insufficient rating or just incompatible with WD hitches, so aftermarket modification is necessary (and there is only one place on the continent where this can be done well).
The best towing SUVs on the market are probably Jeep Grand Cherokee and Dodge Durango, they feature Mercedes platform and hitch receiver capable to handle up to 720 lb with WD.
Passport 195 RB is quite lite and small, so the new Explorer should handle it without difficulty, the only question is how soon you will want something bigger and with more amenities.

I have to question your assertion that the Explorer can handle the trailer without difficulty. By every spec posted the Explorer would be over loaded. I have a 2017, not 2016, and I, in my right mind, would not hitch a trailer wit a GVW in excess of 5100 lbs to that vehicle...not in any way.

This poster pulls a trailer with a Mercedes SUV... not known for their towing prowess. I thought about buying one, drove it and determined, as he said, the Jeep Grand Cherokee or Durango were not only far better bargains, but, had far better specs. At the time I tested them the ML 350, or 500, lacked most everything the other brands offered except a high price.

The spec on the Explorer limits hitch weight to 500 lbs...period. What a the Durango or the GC can haul is irrelevant. Don't let those that choose to ignore the established limits of vehicles as related to towing mess you up.

[RGene7001]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I have to question your assertion that the Explorer can handle the trailer without difficulty. By every spec posted the Explorer would be over loaded. I have a 2017, not 2016, and I, in my right mind, would not hitch a trailer wit a GVW in excess of 5100 lbs to that vehicle...not in any way.

This poster pulls a trailer with a Mercedes SUV... not known for their towing prowess. I thought about buying one, drove it and determined, as he said, the Jeep Grand Cherokee or Durango were not only far better bargains, but, had far better specs. At the time I tested them the ML 350, or 500, lacked most everything the other brands offered except a high price.

The spec on the Explorer limits hitch weight to 500 lbs...period. What a the Durango or the GC can haul is irrelevant. Don't let those that choose to ignore the established limits of vehicles as related to towing mess you up.

There is no chance someone will put 1400 lb of stuff into 195 rb, gross weight is meaningless, just a statement that trailer axles are capable to handle 5100 lb. Hitch weight will be around 500 lb with reasonable and sufficient amount of fresh water after weight distribution hitch is engaged, which will transfer 10% of weight back to the trailer axles.
Mercedes is rated for up to 7200 lb of towing capacity (up to 7700 lb in Europe) and it is a TV of choice across the pond, where people tow trailers similar to mine WITHOUT weight distrubution and sway control, because stability is already factored in the design of the ML or similar vehicle by virtue of heavy weight, favorable geometry, suspension design, electronic vehicle and trailer stabilization
The newest JGC and Durangos finally got 8 speed ZF transmission are probably caught up with Mercedes in terms of technology. However, with right wheels, towing package, all the bells and whistles the sticker price will be very close to $50k, and the advantage over Mercedes with longer warranty, better quality of materials and assembly is not so obvious.

[jkohler70]

My Borrego was only produced for one year, but they did have towing in mind. It's body-on-frame, pre-wired for brake controller. It has a heavy duty Z-F transmission, larger radiator, tranny cooler, and alternator. If even has a switch to turn off the back up sensor when hitched. The V8 pulls strong and I have no sway issues. I've only fallen below 60 MPH once while towing through the Ozarks. My RV is 4800# dry and my tow capacity is 7500#.

[Ken / Claudia]

Not trying to beat you up but, list your payload rating and tire max rating. My guess is it will be less to a lot less than a pickup. Although SUVs tend to weigh more than a pickup of about the same size, that no other reasons lower the payload rating. Again putting a pickup at a better tow vehicle as to what sizes it can pull and load it can carry.

[RGene7001]

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

Not trying to beat you up but, list your payload rating and tire max rating. My guess is it will be less to a lot less than a pickup. Although SUVs tend to weigh more than a pickup of about the same size, that no other reasons lower the payload rating. Again putting a pickup at a better tow vehicle as to what sizes it can pull and load it can carry.

I use 107 rating tires which carry 2,149 lb each for 8,596 lb total. I fould my old weight receipt with my previous Passport. There was 1/3 tank of gas, 1/3 tank of water, stuff for a 5 days trip, now I carry slightly more, perhaps with new, slightly heavier Passport, grown up DD there are a couple hundred pounds more on the hitch and the TV.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RGene7001

I use 107 rating tires which carry 2,149 lb each for 8,596 lb total. I fould my old weight receipt with my previous Passport. There was 1/3 tank of gas, 1/3 tank of water, stuff for a 5 days trip, now I carry slightly more, perhaps with new, slightly heavier Passport, grown up DD there are a couple hundred pounds more on the hitch and the TV.

The sticker is missing the payload??

[RGene7001]

Originally Posted by sourdough

The sticker is missing the payload??

The payload on the sticker is 1201 lb, excluding 150 lb driver. Apparently, even this figure a very conservative, given that the curb weight is listed @ 4,632 lb, so the difference from 6,173 lb GVWR is 1,541 lb

[sourdough]

Apparently, by all legal specs, you have a payload of a bit over 1000 lbs with a 150 lb driver and nothing else? That is typical Mercedes. They are for drivers...not for towing trailers.
In real life your observations about what should or shouldn't count don't matter. You are overweight, and towing with a very short, unstable tow vehicle.

It really doesn't matter what you "think" your ratings are....they are actually posted on your door frame. And you say you now carry a heavier trailer...hmm. The hitch weight for the listed trailer you have is 625 dry, read over 800 in real life. Then you say it would now be over 200 from that. 800 - 1000lbs hitch weight for a tiny SUV? With a max hitch weight of 500 lbs.? I think most folks know that trying to pull anything with a small SUV isn't the best thing. Pulling them overweight, with your vehicle in a dangerous situation then telling others to do the same is irresponsible.

[RGene7001]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Apparently, by all legal specs, you have a payload of a bit over 1000 lbs with a 150 lb driver and nothing else? That is typical Mercedes. They are for drivers...not for towing trailers.
In real life your observations about what should or shouldn't count don't matter. You are overweight, and towing with a very short, unstable tow vehicle.

It really doesn't matter what you "think" your ratings are....they are actually posted on your door frame. And you say you now carry a heavier trailer...hmm. The hitch weight for the listed trailer you have is 625 dry, read over 800 in real life. Then you say it would now be over 200 from that. 800 - 1000lbs hitch weight for a tiny SUV? With a max hitch weight of 500 lbs.? I think most folks know that trying to pull anything with a small SUV isn't the best thing. Pulling them overweight, with your vehicle in a dangerous situation then telling others to do the same is irresponsible.

Sourdough,
Please don't use word "legal" when its not applicable to the matter. While I am not a lawyer, I did my homework and certainly became familiar with typical "Weight Police" Cool Aid. Can you tell me which Federal or State low I violate?
http://www.hitchemup.com/statetowinglaws.htm
Definitely, its no good to go over GVWR of either TV or trailer, but I am several hundred pounds short of it and can even put 4th person in the vehicle if needed.
I would remind you that proper WD hitch moves about 15% of tongue weight back to the trailer axles, and this definitely helps my case.
There may be different approaches here and in Europe re inclusion of driver into the Curb Weight. It is important to weigh the vehicle with all liquids but without occupants to know your allowance if there are any doubts.
Yes, original Mercedes hitch receiver is not acceptable and mine is professionally modified and reinforced to make it able to transfer weight distributing forces to the unibody and to boost its capacity to up to 1,200 lb. Perhaps, your best bet is to lobby the legislature to ban all aftermarket modification of the vehicles, as well as towing of jetskis and utility trailers by sedans like Toyota Corolla, but I suspect, Uhaul may object to such law, as well as 30-50% of south Florida drivers.
Unstable? Dangerous? Irresponsible? But are there any objective tests or measurements which can determine what is still "safe" and "responsible" and what is not? My biggest problem is not "white knuckles " from wildly swaying trailer, but staying awake during long trips. Surely ,everything have limitations and I wound not go if winds approach tropical storm force, but if the winds are less than 25 mph I have no problems and in 95% of cases don't have even slight feel of passing 18 wheelers.
What else? Insurance denials in the case of accident? I read my policy and they state about 10 reasons when coverage may be denied. None of these reasons have anything to do with trailers, weights or modifications.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RGene7001

Sourdough,
Please don't use word "legal" when its not applicable to the matter. While I am not a lawyer, I did my homework and certainly became familiar with typical "Weight Police" Cool Aid. Can you tell me which Federal or State low I violate?
http://www.hitchemup.com/statetowinglaws.htm
Definitely, its no good to go over GVWR of either TV or trailer, but I am several hundred pounds short of it and can even put 4th person in the vehicle if needed.
I would remind you that proper WD hitch moves about 15% of tongue weight back to the trailer axles, and this definitely helps my case.
There may be different approaches here and in Europe re inclusion of driver into the Curb Weight. It is important to weigh the vehicle with all liquids but without occupants to know your allowance if there are any doubts.
Yes, original Mercedes hitch receiver is not acceptable and mine is professionally modified and reinforced to make it able to transfer weight distributing forces to the unibody and to boost its capacity to up to 1,200 lb. Perhaps, your best bet is to lobby the legislature to ban all aftermarket modification of the vehicles, as well as towing of jetskis and utility trailers by sedans like Toyota Corolla, but I suspect, Uhaul may object to such law, as well as 30-50% of south Florida drivers.
Unstable? Dangerous? Irresponsible? But are there any objective tests or measurements which can determine what is still "safe" and "responsible" and what is not? My biggest problem is not "white knuckles " from wildly swaying trailer, but staying awake during long trips. Surely ,everything have limitations and I wound not go if winds approach tropical storm force, but if the winds are less than 25 mph I have no problems and in 95% of cases don't have even slight feel of passing 18 wheelers.
What else? Insurance denials in the case of accident? I read my policy and they state about 10 reasons when coverage may be denied. None of these reasons have anything to do with trailers, weights or modifications.

I am not the weight police nor will I be the one investigating an accident if and when it happens. What you choose to do when towing, whether safe or unsafe, is up to you as long as it doesn't hurt me or someone else. However, when a person new to towing asks about weight limitations/guidelines, I think it is irresponsible to tell them that the legal weights posted on the vehicles actually mean nothing and to basically "do what you want". That kind of guidance can lead to serious, or tragic, consequences.

I've driven SUVs for the last 30 years or so. I can safely say that NONE (and there have been dozens) of them are cut out to tow a very big trailer. You say you don't have white knuckles? Drop your trailer on the back of a 3/4 or one ton and pull it down the highway. You will find that you are actually living with white knuckles but think it's normal. Anyway, to each his own and I wish you, and all of us, safe travels.

[RGene7001]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I am not the weight police nor will I be the one investigating an accident if and when it happens. What you choose to do when towing, whether safe or unsafe, is up to you as long as it doesn't hurt me or someone else. However, when a person new to towing asks about weight limitations/guidelines, I think it is irresponsible to tell them that the legal weights posted on the vehicles actually mean nothing and to basically "do what you want". That kind of guidance can lead to serious, or tragic, consequences.

I've driven SUVs for the last 30 years or so. I can safely say that NONE (and there have been dozens) of them are cut out to tow a very big trailer. You say you don't have white knuckles? Drop your trailer on the back of a 3/4 or one ton and pull it down the highway. You will find that you are actually living with white knuckles but think it's normal. Anyway, to each his own and I wish you, and all of us, safe travels.

What you say is generally true, and I have similar feelings when I see a combination which not set up correctly, be it sagging rear end or drawbar extending by a foot or more from the bumper. Or single axle TT or Popup swinging wildly behind an SUV. Surely, many people would like to tow with an existing vehicle, not everybody is able to live with a pickup truck on everyday basis or simply have another $50k. I always tell new people that towing with an SUV is a difficult technical problem where bigger is not necessarily better, not all SUVs are created equal, and well marketed "advanced" hitches are not likely to work.
Awareness of the trailer is not the same as "white knuckles ", it actually prevents you from doing crazy things, like going to fast, following to closely, or changing lanes without reason. Over tens of thousands of miles I was close to "white knuckles" ones or twice due to tire or hitch problem, but ML's ESP/TSP blasted trailer brakes in split second so I did not get chance to experience this type of "fun" fully.
Good luck

[bsmith0404]

Everyone please keep in mind that safety is the important factor. Although TV set-ups and driver experience can have an impact, in the end manufacturer specifications is what we need to go by. Some will ask why? Very simple, if there is ever an accident, you may or may not get a ticket for being overloaded, but a lawyer will gladly file a lawsuit for negligence. However, what is lost in that statement is the reason for the lawsuit. If someone is injured or worse because we overload our vehicles and the extra weight ends up being the difference in being able to avoid an accident or not, the end result can never be undone.

[ftrupe]

I tow a 23RB with a 6 cylinder 2014 Dodge Durango, which is also my wife's daily driver. The Durango's payload is 1200 pounds and some Ram trucks were only 1180. I use the Equalizer hitch and am quite pleased with combo for where I travel to. It is just the DW and I, so we don't carry a lot of cargo and we only camp with full hookups, so no added weight of carrying water.

[CaptnJohn]

I'm still wondering about "professionally modified and reinforced to make it able to transfer weight distributing forces to the unibody and to boost its capacity to up to 1,200 lb.".

[440justin]

Originally Posted by ftrupe

I tow a 23RB with a 6 cylinder 2014 Dodge Durango, which is also my wife's daily driver. The Durango's payload is 1200 pounds and some Ram trucks were only 1180. I use the Equalizer hitch and am quite pleased with combo for where I travel to. It is just the DW and I, so we don't carry a lot of cargo and we only camp with full hookups, so no added weight of carrying water.

I would go and scale the setup, I think you will find the hitch weight alot higher than you think it is. I have the 23RB and the hitch weight is about 800lbs without water. You will find Slow had also posted his weights and was over 700lbs on a 23RB. That just does not leave much payload to play with on most SUV, and many highly optioned 1/2 trucks.

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