Towing with a 1/2 ton in the Rockies

[chuckster57]

I use my driveway, and the wife automatically figures I'm going to wash her Mariner too. LOL

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by old timer

I have the ecoboost in my Taurus SHO and love it, Problem with trucks is that they tow with them. I can take my car and climb hills or mountain passes without using the turbos. In a truck pulling a trailer its a different story. You will be into the turbos more because I don't think just going on motor has the power to pull without the added boost. I wonder how hot they get on a 1 mile climb towing a boat.

From what I understand, the EcoBoost uses a Honeywell water cooled turbo and has an "water-siphon water cooling" process that kicks in at shutdown. Apparently it won't "coke the oil" like a conventional oil cooled turbo would. So, there's no requirement for a cool-down period after heavy turbo use.

You can find the article from Ford here: http://www.at.ford.com/news/cn/Artic...tyTesting.aspx

Here's a part of the article: "The new EcoBoost V-6 uses two Honeywell GT15 water-cooled turbos. The EcoBoost engine uses passive thermal siphoning for water cooling,” Plagens explains. “During normal engine operation, the engine’s water pump cycles coolant through the center bearing. After engine shutdown renders the water pump inactive, the coolant flow reverses. Coolant heats up and flows away from the turbocharger water jacket, pulling fresh, cool coolant in behind. This highly effective coolant process is completely silent to the driver, continuing to protect the turbocharger.”

[gearhead]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

From what I understand, the EcoBoost uses a Honeywell water cooled turbo and has an "water-siphon water cooling" process that kicks in at shutdown. Apparently it won't "coke the oil" like a conventional oil cooled turbo would. So, there's no requirement for a cool-down period after heavy turbo use.

You can find the article from Ford here: http://www.at.ford.com/news/cn/Artic...tyTesting.aspx

Here's a part of the article: "The new EcoBoost V-6 uses two Honeywell GT15 water-cooled turbos. The EcoBoost engine uses passive thermal siphoning for water cooling,” Plagens explains. “During normal engine operation, the engine’s water pump cycles coolant through the center bearing. After engine shutdown renders the water pump inactive, the coolant flow reverses. Coolant heats up and flows away from the turbocharger water jacket, pulling fresh, cool coolant in behind. This highly effective coolant process is completely silent to the driver, continuing to protect the turbocharger.”

Good idea Ford has there. I didn't know they were making Taurus SHO again. I was wondering if he was referring to the old original Yamaha engineered SHO. Or was it Mercury Marine???

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by gearhead

Good idea Ford has there. I didn't know they were making Taurus SHO again. I was wondering if he was referring to the old original Yamaha engineered SHO. Or was it Mercury Marine???

Yup, the SHO is available in the Taurus lineup. Standard Taurus engines are the 3.5L V-6 with optional 2.0L EcoBoost. The SHO comes with the 3.5L EcoBoost and optional upgraded "SHO performance package" with everything from 3.16 axles to AWD/larger brake calipers.

As for the "old Yamaha inspired" SHO, as "hot" as those engines were, Yamaha has a way of "tuning right to the point of failure" and trying to run their engines that way. With 2 Yamaha 4 cycle snowmobiles, one ATV and two marine engines, one a 2 cycle and the other a 4 cycle, I like Yamaha, but they just don't seem to last without a bit of "babying" on the maintenance.

Anyway, to answer, the "old SHO" was Yamaha and the SHO is still available, now inspired by Ford, not Yamaha.

[michael_h]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

As for the Ecoboost, just something about having to use premium gas all of the time turns me off.

Where does it say to use premium gas in an Ecoboost? Have I been misinformed for the last four years?

[gearhead]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Yup, the SHO is available in the Taurus lineup. Standard Taurus engines are the 3.5L V-6 with optional 2.0L EcoBoost. The SHO comes with the 3.5L EcoBoost and optional upgraded "SHO performance package" with everything from 3.16 axles to AWD/larger brake calipers.

As for the "old Yamaha inspired" SHO, as "hot" as those engines were, Yamaha has a way of "tuning right to the point of failure" and trying to run their engines that way. With 2 Yamaha 4 cycle snowmobiles, one ATV and two marine engines, one a 2 cycle and the other a 4 cycle, I like Yamaha, but they just don't seem to last without a bit of "babying" on the maintenance.

Anyway, to answer, the "old SHO" was Yamaha and the SHO is still available, now inspired by Ford, not Yamaha.

We had a 1st generation Taurus, then later a 500 that morphed into Taurus. The current model is one good looking car. Looks like an Aston Martin or Jaguar to me. The SHO should run.
I'm babying my Yamaha 150HP 4 stroke outboard, and crossing my fingers. Just about to hit 100 hours and 3 years on it.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by gearhead

We had a 1st generation Taurus, then later a 500 that morphed into Taurus. The current model is one good looking car. Looks like an Aston Martin or Jaguar to me. The SHO should run.
I'm babying my Yamaha 150HP 4 stroke outboard, and crossing my fingers. Just about to hit 100 hours and 3 years on it.

Ever since Ford bought Jaguar, I've said that the Taurus (500 when it was called that) looks like a Jaguar. Actually what I've said was that the Jaguar looks like a Taurus with a funny grill. Even now, after Ford sold Jag (but kept the good parts) the Taurus and Jag sedans are very similar in looks...

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by michael_h

Where does it say to use premium gas in an Ecoboost? Have I been misinformed for the last four years?

I guess you don't have to run premium, that's just what Ford uses to get the horsepower and torque specs of 365 and 420 respectively for the 3.5 ecoboost. Although not every spec sheet shows it, they do have a few published with the 93 octane footnote.

As for the water cooled turbo, not sure how well it's working. I've been hearing a lot of info from a couple Ford technicians I know that they are experiencing several turbo failures around 60k miles.

[old timer]

So far mine is good 66,000 miles. It gets up and goes when you need it too

[bsmith0404]

Hope you continue to have good luck with it. I'm just going off what they are telling me. Apparently there are enough ecoboost turbo failures out there that they are noticing it as unusual in the shop. You can search the web as well, although I didn't see what I would consider excessive information, considering the number of these engines on the road, there does seem to be quite a few low mileage issues similar to what the techs I know are telling me.

[GMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by michael_h

If you are going to consider an Ecoboost F150, I recommend the max tow version. 2400 bed weight, 3.73 gear, 12K tow capacity, and all the bells and whistles for towing, I wish I would had thought about it a bit more when I bought my heavy duty version . . . I love my truck and it tows great thru the WV mountains . . . presently that's all the experience I have, IMO it's really a great truck without the 3/4 ton badging

When I was looking, I couldn't find one with the Max Payload. Do you need the max payload to get 2400 lbs?

I went with GMC Sierra with 2015 payload and 10,800 towing cap. No fancy turbos. Tows fine, although I have not gone on a long trip yet.

[michael_h]

Originally Posted by GMcKenzie

When I was looking, I couldn't find one with the Max Payload. Do you need the max payload to get 2400 lbs?

I went with GMC Sierra with 2015 payload and 10,800 towing cap. No fancy turbos. Tows fine, although I have not gone on a long trip yet.

My dealer didn't have a max tow version on the lot when I bought either, but I have noticed here lately some are carrying maybe one unit.

Yes Heavy Duty Payload is 1465 pounds if I remember correctly, and only the Max Tow has the 2400 payload.

All I know is todays 1/2 ton trucks aren't our dads old trucks and all seem to have their pluses and minuses . . . but as long as they safely do the jobs we ask of them, and we're happy, who care the badging

[larry337]

Originally Posted by michael_h

My dealer didn't have a max tow version on the lot when I bought either, but I have noticed here lately some are carrying maybe one unit.

Yes Heavy Duty Payload is 1465 pounds if I remember correctly, and only the Max Tow has the 2400 payload.

All I know is todays 1/2 ton trucks aren't our dads old trucks and all seem to have their pluses and minuses . . . but as long as they safely do the jobs we ask of them, and we're happy, who care the badging

Actually the Max Tow pkg and the Max Payload pkg are two separate options. The Max Tow pkg will give you roughly 12-1600 lbs of payload depending on the options and configuration, same as any F150, and it's not that hard to find. The Max PAYLOAD pkg is a rare bird, I've never actually seen one. There are a lot of ordering restrictions and it is only available with certain options and configurations. One feature of the the Max PAYLOAD option is a stronger 7 lug wheel. Even though it is advertised as up to 2400 lbs I'm guessing with options it would be closer to 2000, as always it just depends on the sticker in the door jamb.

[goducks]

Either a GM or Ford 1/2 ton with 3.73 gears and a 6sp tranny will do fine. You 2004 5.4 is a dog compared to the newer 1/2 ton. the 3.55 gears don't help either. Everything on new 1/2 tons is way better than your 2004.
Your TT is what maybe 6000-6300lbs loaded? That's a good match for any Ford or GM with the max tow package. If you go Ford then go with the 3.5 EcoBoost 3.73 gears. Plenty of low end tq and with the turbos you'll have no power drop in higher elevations.
You need to look for a Ford F150 with the Max Tow option. If you're ordering one then that's simple. Finding one on a dealers lot could be tricky. I was lucky enough to fine a 2010 F150 Max Tow a few years back I towed a 31' 7300lb loaded TT with it. Had zero issues in 5-6000' El. Just needed to rev it out to 3400 rpms which is the sweet spot. Once on level ground it stayed in 5th or 6th.
Yes a 3/4 ton would be better, but not really needed. Where do you stop. You always get the guys that say get a 3/4 ton, then next it's why not just get a 1 ton for $800 more. Then here comes the DRW guys. Really?
You're not towing anything of significance so stay with a higher payload rated 1/2 ton. I'm not sure what GM is offering in the higher payload options, so that's something to checkout. Rams are pathetic for payload so don't go there.
I just know from reading on RV forums for the last 5 years that there's lots of happy F150 3.5 EB owners towing 6000lb TT's.
Also the newer 2015-2016 F150's have even higher payload capacities.

[JRTJH]

According to the Ford website, here's the "scoop" on the F150 Heavy Duty Payload and Max Towing packages:

Heavy Duty Payload is only available on the regular cab and supercab 8' bed models. It is only available on the supercrew if you also order the 6.5' bed. It's not available with the 8' or 5.5' bed supercrew models and costs $1695.
Heavy Duty Payload Package Includes:

• 3.73 Electronic-locking rear axle
• 9.75-inch gearset
• Upgraded springs and auxiliary transmission oil cooler
• XL: 17-inch Silver Steel Wheels
• XLT/LARIAT: 18-inch Silver Aluminum Wheels

When you select the HD Payload package, the Max Trailer Tow Package comes up as "automatically included". If added as a separate option without the HD Payload, it costs $1195 and Max Trailer Tow Package includes:

• 3.55 Electronic-locking rear axle
• 4-pin/7-pin wiring harness
• Auxiliary transmission oil cooler
• Class IV trailer hitch receiver
• Smart Trailer Tow Connector (standard on LARIAT and higher)
• Integrated Trailer Brake Controller
• Upgraded front stabilizer bar
• Upgraded rear bumper

The 3.55 E-lock rear axle is changed to a 3.73 E-lock rear axle with the HD Payload package.

Ford offers three "tow packages", the standard towing package, the heavy duty towing package and the Max Tow package. They are distinctly different !!!

[larry337]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

According to the Ford website, here's the "scoop" on the F150 Heavy Duty Payload and Max Towing packages:

Heavy Duty Payload is only available on the regular cab and supercab 8' bed models. It is only available on the supercrew if you also order the 6.5' bed. It's not available with the 8' or 5.5' bed supercrew models and costs $1695.
Heavy Duty Payload Package Includes:

• 3.73 Electronic-locking rear axle
• 9.75-inch gearset
• Upgraded springs and auxiliary transmission oil cooler
• XL: 17-inch Silver Steel Wheels
• XLT/LARIAT: 18-inch Silver Aluminum Wheels

When you select the HD Payload package, the Max Trailer Tow Package comes up as "automatically included". If added as a separate option without the HD Payload, it costs $1195 and Max Trailer Tow Package includes:

• 3.55 Electronic-locking rear axle
• 4-pin/7-pin wiring harness
• Auxiliary transmission oil cooler
• Class IV trailer hitch receiver
• Smart Trailer Tow Connector (standard on LARIAT and higher)
• Integrated Trailer Brake Controller
• Upgraded front stabilizer bar
• Upgraded rear bumper

The 3.55 E-lock rear axle is changed to a 3.73 E-lock rear axle with the HD Payload package.

Ford offers three "tow packages", the standard towing package, the heavy duty towing package and the Max Tow package. They are distinctly different !!!

That's what I was trying to say but didn't feel like looking it up.

Good job (But "if" I were to knitpick I would say the supercrew is not available with an 8' bed )

If I were to buy an F150 I would order one with both HD Payload and HD towing. Combined with the EcoBoost that would be a very capable half ton truck!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by larry337

That's what I was trying to say but didn't feel like looking it up.

Good job (But "if" I were to knitpick I would say the supercrew is not available with an 8' bed )

If I were to buy an F150 I would order one with both HD Payload and HD towing. Combined with the EcoBoost that would be a very capable half ton truck!

OOPS Good catch !! I should have typed (meant to say) "It's only available on the regular cab and supercab 8' bed models. It is only available on the supercrew if you also order the 6.5' bed. It's not available with the 5.5' bed supercrew models."

I agree with you, if I were in the market for an F150, probably the only options I'd "insist" it have are the HD payload, Max Towing and EcoBoost 3.5. All the rest that I would want (for towing) is pretty much "standard equipment" and comes with either the XLT (cloth seats) or Lariat (leather seats) with seat covers being the major deciding factor..... Of course, as with any truck with a "max GVW" all the additional options add weight to the truck curb weight and decrease the payload, which, for me would make the XLT more attractive (not to mention the added cost of the Lariat)...

It's interesting to note that Ford specifies the 17" wheels on the XL model are 7 lug steel, but doesn't give any indication if the 18" aluminum wheels on the XLT and higher optioned trucks are 6, 7 or possibly 8 lug wheels. My guess would be they are the same 6 lug as other optional wheels, but only a guess. I suppose I might ask the next time I'm at the Ford dealer, that is unless I get sidetracked talking about "aftermarket antifreeze" that meets the Ford Orange criteria.... Why do they have to do that to us??????? LOL

It's interesting to note that the "trailer backing system" is described by Ford as an "assist for the occasional trailer towing owner" and is only available with the HD towing package (mid level towing) but is not available with the HD towing package. I suppose (my guess) that Ford believes anyone who would buy a Max Towing package would tow their trailer often enough to not need a "knob on the dash" to back their trailer ??? <purely my speculation>

ADDED: I believe, based on what I can find on the Ford.com website, the HD Payload package on the XLT comes with "increased load aluminum wheels" and that also "upgrades" the tires to "LT275/65R18C OWL All-Terrain Tires" If I'm reading that correctly, Ford changes the tires from "P" series to "LT" series, but they are (from what I see) 6 ply rated "C" tires rather than "D" or "E" (8 or 10 ply)... Except for the "sidewall rigidity" it seems almost like that's a "step down" in tires.... Hmmmmm ????
I also think I'd "insist" on the 36 gallon "extended range" tank, even though it's an added weight and costs $375 more...

[larry337]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Here are the HD wheels right out of the brochure. I think the HD Payload pkg gets looked over by consumers for a lot of reason's, one most people aren't even aware of it, two is all the restrictions and compatibility, third is the requirement for the 8' bed in a supercab and a 6.5' bed in a supercrew. People like a half ton because its smaller so forcing them to the long bed would just make them consider a 3/4 ton.

I had to edit my post because after looking at the uploaded picture it doesn't show the detail very well. The wheel on the left is the 7 lug 17 inch steel HD wheel and the one on the right is the 6 lug 18 inch HD aluminum wheel. Go to the actual brochure for a better picture.

[michael_h]

it's all confusing till you figure it out

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...12_F150_SB.pdf

[slow]

I considered buying a HD Payload F150 EB supercrew, but found that they were hard to come by forcing a factory order and no discounting. The F250 gasser on the lot was cheaper and is more capable for towing. In the end, since our TV is not a daily driver, we went with the F250 and have no regrets. I like having our TV weigh more than our loaded TT.