Inverter Loop Failure

[MikesKeystone]

Hi All! I have a 2021 Keystone Passport 221BHWE with Renogy 2000w inverter, Xantrex Transfer Switch, and Victron Solar Charger. All has worked flawlessly for 1 year.

For the first time a few weeks ago, I turned on the inverter when the Keystone Giggy Box 12v disconnect was on (so the 12v was disconnected). I immediately heard some clicking from the front of the trailer (I was standing inside at the front door...it sounded like it was inside the front cap or in the ceiling...it could have been echoing from the inverter inside in the front pass-thru storage...because it does click when it faults).

The inverter immediately faulted and stopped working. I can't remember what the fault was that day, but after resetting it, it worked. Sporadically, I've been getting the yellow GF fault since then (which means theres a problem with the GFCI outlets). Today, I got the red fault (which means either too much voltage, too low, too much load, , short circuit...). When I plugged into shore power, my house's GFCI breaker tripped. It only trips when the GFCI circuit/inverter loop breaker is on.

I tested each of the 5 outlets on the inverter loop and found that one of the two romex wires (the hot end of the loop? I dont know) at the bathroom GFCI outlet has continuity between the positive and negative wires. Beyond that, I'm above my pay grade as to figuring out what's causing it, and how to find the location of the problem.

Can anyone help?

[MikesKeystone]

After more troubleshooting, there's no more continuity at the bathroom outlet. Weird.

The connections at the transfer switch are fine.

Is the clicking coming from the transfer switch?

[RV Vacation]

Originally Posted by MikesKeystone

After more troubleshooting, there's no more continuity at the bathroom outlet. Weird.

The connections at the transfer switch are fine.

Is the clicking coming from the transfer switch?

Hello Mike, sorry to hear of your problem, that just plain sucks.


Can you determine which wire is the "feed" to the GFI and which wire is the "down stream" to the other receptacles?

Going out on a limb and guessing the "romex" you tested continuity on is the "down stream feed. The continuity could have been caused by any appliance/lamp/etc. plugged into those receptacles.

Also, is there an outside receptacle that may have gotten wet?

[MikesKeystone]

I wasn't able to determine the feed wire, but I'll check it again when I'm in there.

There weren't any appliances plugged into the outlets, but that continuity was gone this morning, oddly.

There is an outdoor outlet that was caulked/sealed just a few weeks ago. That outlet tested fine yesterday and today.

I've ready that the inverter sometimes gives false faults, but this happens with the inverter disconnected. I wonder if the transfer switch failed?

[MikesKeystone]

It's back@ lol

[MikesKeystone]

I just found the same resistance rating at the breaker, which is off. So, Isn't the inverter loop supposed to run directly from the breaker to the front pass-thru storage where it's connected to the transfer switch, then to the inverted outlets?

[RV Vacation]

Originally Posted by MikesKeystone

I wasn't able to determine the feed wire, but I'll check it again when I'm in there.

There weren't any appliances plugged into the outlets, but that continuity was gone this morning, oddly.

There is an outdoor outlet that was caulked/sealed just a few weeks ago. That outlet tested fine yesterday and today.

I've ready that the inverter sometimes gives false faults, but this happens with the inverter disconnected. I wonder if the transfer switch failed?

I am no electrician by any means but GFIs are very sensitive as you probably know.

You had continuity on the GFI circuit but it since has cleared, so I suspect the GFI sensed a fault and opened. Your outside receptacle, I am guessing is on that same GFI circuit and if wet, could show continuity, pending the sensitivity of your testing device. When the outside receptacle dried a bit, no more continuity to ground, and the fault would clear.

Also, GFI's do go bad and will not reset.

As for your transfer switch, I doubt that would show the continuity you saw on the GFI circuit.

Certainly looks to be a mind bender. I can only wish I was on sight to help figure this one out.

Good luck and do let us know what you find wrong.

Be well and safe travels.

John

[MikesKeystone]

Originally Posted by RV Vacation

I am no electrician by any means but GFIs are very sensitive as you probably know.

You had continuity on the GFI circuit but it since has cleared, so I suspect the GFI sensed a fault and opened. Your outside receptacle, I am guessing is on that same GFI circuit and if wet, could show continuity, pending the sensitivity of your testing device. When the outside receptacle dried a bit, no more continuity to ground, and the fault would clear.

Also, GFI's do go bad and will not reset.

As for your transfer switch, I doubt that would show the continuity you saw on the GFI circuit.

Certainly looks to be a mind bender. I can only wish I was on sight to help figure this one out.

Good luck and do let us know what you find wrong.

Be well and safe travels.

John

Thanks. It's above my pay grade, so I'll play around with it, but ultimately get a professional.

[RagingRobert]

It all sounds very complicated...if things don't work when I plug in I check breakers, fuses, and GFI's...after that I'll need help or an electrician. What else could it be but a loose connection or a faulty inverter thingy

[MikesKeystone]

Originally Posted by RagingRobert

It all sounds very complicated...if things don't work when I plug in I check breakers, fuses, and GFI's...after that I'll need help or an electrician. What else could it be but a loose connection or a faulty inverter thingy

Yep, it's above my YouTube video pay grade! 🤣 Thanks

[RSN NV]

Originally Posted by MikesKeystone

Yep, it's above my YouTube video pay grade! 🤣 Thanks

Hi Mike, Have you tried disconnecting the GFI outlet to see if that is the problem. replace it with a new outlet, you may just have a GFI outlet that has gone bad. I have had a similar problem in the past.

Bob

[MikesKeystone]

Originally Posted by RSN NV

Hi Mike, Have you tried disconnecting the GFI outlet to see if that is the problem. replace it with a new outlet, you may just have a GFI outlet that has gone bad. I have had a similar problem in the past.

Bob

Hi Bob, yes I did. That didn't resolve it.

[RacerX]

Hi, we have a different set up so take this suggestion with a grain of salt.
In our 2022 400i I had problems with the inverted loop a while back and after pondering it a while I remembered that I had “forgotten” that this set up actually has two GFCI circuits. The one in the bath but also an easily overlooked one in the Bedroom on the first of the 7 inverted loop outlets. (The outlet closest to the inverter which is in the passthru storage.). Turned out my wife accidentally tripped it trying to plug in her phone in the dark.

Is it possible that you have a second GFCI that also got tripped when your other GFCI circuits (home and trailer got tripped?)

If this makes no sense….just ignore.

Good luck finding the problem!

[MikesKeystone]

Thanks for the info.

That might be a cause, when plugged into the house, because one of the outlets on that house circuit has a gfi and it tripped once.

The problem happens when running on the inverter, though, with no other gfi outlet.

I've mapped out the branches in the circuit and replacing and testing each outlet, one at a time. So far, so good, but we're not at the gfi yet in the bathroom. I wonder why your bedroom outlet has gfi?

Haven't ruled out the converter yet. The internet says it gets wonky and causes problems with gfi sometimes. I'm getting some weird readings at the breaker when testing it...there's continuity between hot and neutral when the converter breaker is on, and with no 110v power of course. I'm waiting on WFCO tech support on that one.

[RacerX]

The GFCI receptacle in our bath protects near the sink and is where most rigs have their primary GFCI if there is only one in the trailer. Our Cougar has a second GFCI which provides protection for the inverted loop which includes the outdoor plug which is also usually protected by GFCI like the bathroom sink plug. Unfortunately this second (in the bedroom) GFCI plug is so color coordinated that I didn’t notice it was a GFCI receptacle. When tripped, my inverted circuits were interrupted and I had to do a logic trace to figure out why everything on the inverter was dead. (First thought was that I did something with a setting in the inverter….actual cause was much simpler.). Again, good luck! And here’s hoping you have one of those “oh jeeze!” problem found moments.

[MikesKeystone]

👍👍 thanks.

[MikesKeystone]

If this helps anyone who comes across the post, this is what happened:

The problem turned out the be the wire inside the wall between two outlets. It was shorting to ground (the aluminum frame). Opening up the wall and ceiling was a big ordeal, so we ran a new wire inside a wire channel and then inside the wall near the two outlets. Problem solved.

The short was discovered by process of elimination. Once the branches of the circuit were idenitified and the problem isolated, the wire itself did not have a short or an open, so the last thing to test was a short to the frame (continuity between one of the wires...in this case hot....and the frame).

[RacerX]

Good job! That was a tricky one. Glad you solved it.

[RagingRobert]

That was a crazy one Mike So how did that happen? I mean how was a bare wire touching the aluminum frame inside a wall? Anyway, I was totally confused back at the inverter loop and giggy box thing Glad you fixed the problem, persistence does pay off. So how do you fix the wall and ceiling now? Did you remove entire panels? Maybe a photo of the issue could also pay off with Keystone helping replace those panels...maybe worth a cheap shot