Electrical Issue

[tech740]

So I just replaced my batteries. I went with 2 GC's but that shouldn't make a difference. At the batteries I am only getting 12.2-12.3 volts. At the converter I am getting 13.2 volts. I have pulled the underbelly and followed the charge wire from the converter to the battery switch. The wire is only 12.2 volts when it gets to the switch. What do I do with this issue?

[rhagfo]

How long is the wire run and what size is the wire?

[tech740]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

How long is the wire run and what size is the wire?

About 30 feet and I think it was 6 gauge.

[chuckster57]

Check and clean the grounds.

[JRTJH]

I'm guessing that you have a WFCO converter/charger and power center, so this is the troubleshooting steps for that brand. If you have a different brand, then you'll need to look up the troubleshooting procedures for that specific converter/charger.

For the WFCO, check and clean the grounds, make sure all the connections are tight, then to properly check the converter/charger output, you must remove the battery cables from the battery/batteries, and check the voltage at the cable ends. If connected to the batteries, you can not read the "unbiased voltage output" of the converter. Any voltage on the line (from the battery) will alter the output of the converter and invalidate your troubleshooting....

With the batteries disconnected, you should read 13.6 +/- 0.2 VDC at the battery cable ends. If not, suspect the converter is bad.

You can download your specific WFCO component manuals here: https://wfcoelectronics.com/product-downloads/

[tech740]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I'm guessing that you have a WFCO converter/charger and power center, so this is the troubleshooting steps for that brand. If you have a different brand, then you'll need to look up the troubleshooting procedures for that specific converter/charger.

For the WFCO, check and clean the grounds, make sure all the connections are tight, then to properly check the converter/charger output, you must remove the battery cables from the battery/batteries, and check the voltage at the cable ends. If connected to the batteries, you can not read the "unbiased voltage output" of the converter. Any voltage on the line (from the battery) will alter the output of the converter and invalidate your troubleshooting....

With the batteries disconnected, you should read 13.6 +/- 0.2 VDC at the battery cable ends. If not, suspect the converter is bad.

You can download your specific WFCO component manuals here: https://wfcoelectronics.com/product-downloads/

Maybe a silly question but are there multiple grounds? I thought of that last fall and added one right at the batteries. Is this like a car, where there are multiple grounds?

[chuckster57]

ALL the grounds (12VDC AND 110VAC) are connected and to the frame. Yes there are multiple connections.

[tech740]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

ALL the grounds (12VDC AND 110VAC) are connected and to the frame. Yes there are multiple connections.

I found 4 of them. 3 in the battery compartment, and one in the hydraulic compartment. I have 13.6 at the back of the converter. With the wire from the converter to the battery switch unhooked I had 13.1. should be straight from the converter to the end of that wire. Now all hooked back up and I am at 12.6V. It seems like there should not be that much voltage drop. Are there more grounds or am I fighting a losing battle trying for full voltage? Also I am noticing that the fan doesn't run on the converter. Its a WFCO 9865.

[tech740]

I am thinking it is my converter. My batteries are losing charge while plugged it. The fans are not running in the converter and with a amp meter I am only seeing 10 amps on a 65 amp converter. I went to using a battery charger for right now. Does this sound like a bad converter to you also?

[tech740]

I talked to WFCO today. They advised to unhook the batteries, and turn on all the 12v items in the camper, and then check the voltage at the converter. I did this and had 13.6 volts. This time the lights didn't seem to dim and the the fan kicked on for the converter. I used a stand alone battery charger and got he batteries to 13.7 also just before doing this test. At this point it seems to be working and I will continue to monitor the next couple days. Any ideas why it would seem to be working now?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by tech740

I found 4 of them. 3 in the battery compartment, and one in the hydraulic compartment. I have 13.6 at the back of the converter. With the wire from the converter to the battery switch unhooked I had 13.1. should be straight from the converter to the end of that wire. Now all hooked back up and I am at 12.6V. It seems like there should not be that much voltage drop. Are there more grounds or am I fighting a losing battle trying for full voltage? Also I am noticing that the fan doesn't run on the converter. Its a WFCO 9865.

Trying to "troubleshoot by guessing" on this one, but looking between the lines on what you said, I believe what you're saying you did in the red part was disconnect one of the cables on the "factory installed" battery cutoff switch and got 13.1VDC there, and then when reconnected, 12.6VDC at that same point ???

If that's what you did to measure, then you didn't have the batteries completley disconnected. There are three "battery circuits" and two of them go to the power center DC buss bar. The circuits are:

1. Emergency brake activation, directly from the battery through the breakaway switch to the brakes. This is not connected to the DC buss bar in the power center.

2. The safety bypass 12 volt system that goes to the DC buss bar through a fuse or two, and powers the LPG detector, the slides and the landing gear.

3. The "standard 12 volt power system" that goes through the battery cutoff switch and powers the lights, refrigerator, water pump, etc.

If you disconnected the battery cutoff switch, there was still 12 volts from the battery going to the DC buss bar and that could affect the converter output, preventing it from putting out the full power. So troubleshooting with the BCO switch disconnected is not electrically the same condition as removing both battery terminals from the battery....

I'm not sure if you ever actually removed both battery cables from the battery and measured the converter voltage "on the battery terminals". That's the only way to "remove all battery bias voltage to the converter system and get a "true converter output voltage measurement.

If you did measure the converter voltage "at the battery terminals" with both of them disconnected, what was that reading?

[tech740]

I have altered the wiring on mine a little due to the dealer always killing my battery when I would drop it off for repairs. My battery and power inverter (for the fridge) go to one side of he switch. The other side has the converter line, and two other connections for powering the rest of the rig. This way when the switch is flipped and the inverter is off there is no draw.

When I checked the converter line at the front of the rig I was at 13.1 with it not hooked to the switch at all. Then when I made the connection to the switch it showed the 12.6 on the same converter line with the other 2 attached. When I turned the switch on and waited a couple days the batteries went down to 12.0. I attached my automotive battery charger due to it seeming that the converter wasn't charging the batteries for some reason.

We washed the rig last night. While checking the voltages I turned the switch off. The lights all dimmed and the converter fan was not on.

Today when I tested it I removed the positive terminal entirely. I turned on every 12 volt switch I have. The fan came on this time and the converter was showing 13.6 just like it should and the lights were bright like normal.

I plan to keep an eye on it the next couple days but I have no clue where to go if I start loosing voltage again.

[tech740]

Okay new development. Put in a new converter and no change. I am starting to think the 12 volt circuit board is bad at the power distribution center. The unused slots have 13.6V on the top of the fuse slot and 9v on the bottom with no fuses present. Does that make sense that the PCB would be bad?

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by tech740

I have altered the wiring on mine a little due to the dealer always killing my battery when I would drop it off for repairs. My battery and power inverter (for the fridge) go to one side of he switch. The other side has the converter line, and two other connections for powering the rest of the rig. This way when the switch is flipped and the inverter is off there is no draw.

When I checked the converter line at the front of the rig I was at 13.1 with it not hooked to the switch at all. Then when I made the connection to the switch it showed the 12.6 on the same converter line with the other 2 attached. When I turned the switch on and waited a couple days the batteries went down to 12.0. I attached my automotive battery charger due to it seeming that the converter wasn't charging the batteries for some reason.

We washed the rig last night. While checking the voltages I turned the switch off. The lights all dimmed and the converter fan was not on.

Today when I tested it I removed the positive terminal entirely. I turned on every 12 volt switch I have. The fan came on this time and the converter was showing 13.6 just like it should and the lights were bright like normal.

I plan to keep an eye on it the next couple days but I have no clue where to go if I start loosing voltage again.

I'm not a big believer in coincidence. You altered the wiring and the connection to the battery cut off then had 12 vdc issues. Start with what has changed and put it back the way it was when it worked (if you can recall) and see what happens.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by tech740

Okay new development. Put in a new converter and no change. I am starting to think the 12 volt circuit board is bad at the power distribution center. The unused slots have 13.6V on the top of the fuse slot and 9v on the bottom with no fuses present. Does that make sense that the PCB would be bad?

If your measuring both sides of an empty fuse slot, I would expect one side to be 12VDC. Are you saying you get 9VDC at the load side of the empty fuse slot?

[tech740]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

If your measuring both sides of an empty fuse slot, I would expect one side to be 12VDC. Are you saying you get 9VDC at the load side of the empty fuse slot?

Yes that’s exactly what I mean. Per a WFCO video there is supposed to be 13 v on both sides so the red light works with a blown fuse. I only have 9 though. When I turned on all the 12 volt stuff my front cap lights popped a fuse. With the fuse out they stayed dimly light and had 9 volts at the light. I unhooked the load wire from the circuit board and lost all that voltage to rule out a short. Still can’t get the batteries to charge from the converter.

I consulted with another person with the same camper and wired mine back to how theirs is. Still no change.

[flybouy]

Sounds to me like a missing or highly corroded ground. Check the ground connections and look closely at the ring terminals on those cables. If the wire thats crimped in the ring terminal or the wire going back into the insulation is corroded it will cause high resistance and create havoc with the electrical circuits.

[tech740]

I will come the grounds again. I talked with WFCO again and they said to move the inverter to the battery and check it again. I did that. Now I am able to get 13.9 from the converter to the switch. The other side of the switch goes to a bus bar which is circled red in the pic. Before connecting that I had 13.9 at that terminal. The terminal circled green is the positive from the batteries. With unhooked and the converter powering all the 12v in the trailer I had 13.1 on the stud for the battery. After about two hours it has went from 12.46 to 12.55 so I am making positive strides now. I have noticed when the inverter is on it seems to loose charge and it charges slowly with it off. I am hooked to my house so not sure why the pass thru portion isn’t working correctly. Attachment 39931

[tech740]

So I did some more trouble shooting. All the grounds look good. I would have no idea where to look if one is missing. I do not see anything not hooked up. I removed all the wires from the above pics from the circuit breakers and hooked up just he batteries to the converter that seemed to work and get me to 12.7 volts so far I found the yellow wire is the trailer brakes. One of the large reds is the hydraulic pump. The small red seems to be a trigger wire for the hydraulic pump. The white wire is a hot to the one control system. Both blacks are to the schwintek slide controllers.

Here is where it gets weird. I pulled the emergency brake away and reconnected the yellow wire. There was a small spark which told me there was a dray on that wire. I disconnected the yellow and replaced the breakaway key. Reconnected the yellow and no spark. When I reconnected the schwintek controllers I got a spark on the controller for the off door side slide.

Should there be any dray on that circuit when the slide is not being actuated?

[flybouy]

From your description if you connect the brake wire with the pin removed then yes you will get a spark. The pin operates a switch by holding the switch open ( disconnected). So with the pin out you have a completed circuit actuating the brakes. As for the slideout someone with more knowledge will have to answer that. If it has a control board that communicates with other devices it may have a parasitic drain but I don't know.