'21 Cougar 368 MBI FROZEN

Desert5er · 02-12-2021, 11:44 AM

First winter in this 5th wheel and my galley cold water and galley tank valve have frozen (16 degrees right now) . The hot water isn't frozen and both hot and cold in the bathroom work fine. This is supposed to be a four seasons RV and has a fully enclosed bottom. I'm trying to figure out where I can apply heat to get the water running again and called Keystone to see if they would send me a plumbing diagram. They adamantly refused. I'm living in this thing, so can't just drop it off at the dealer for 2 weeks while they sure up whatever isn't insulated properly. Any idea on what I can do short of tearing the bottom off?

**chuckster57** · 02-12-2021, 11:55 AM

Probably 99% of RV manufacturers don’t issue any schematics of any kind. Are you running the furnace? Since the ductwork is under the floor, the “idea” behind the 4 seasons claim is the heat loss from the ducts will keep things moving.

Your finding out it’s more of a marketing gimmick. Is there a wind blowing underneath the trailer?

jasin1 · 02-12-2021, 12:18 PM

I would let the faucets drip a little on the ones that do work. I would turn the furnace up to 78 or something really warm.. look for places that the air is getting in under the skirting and under the trailer ..maybe around the slide in kitchen. Open the cabinet doors by kitchen sink.
It’s not safe to put a heater under the trailer but in a emergency if you were under there it may be safe for a little while to try and warm up.
Then I would leave the faucets dripping if it was that cold
I originally read it that you have skirting around trailer but if your talking about just the factory enclosed bottom then you may want to build skirting around it to block out wind. Even a tarp would be better then nothing or if it’s a lot of snow then build a snow wall around

wiredgeorge · 02-12-2021, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert5er

First winter in this 5th wheel and my galley cold water and galley tank valve have frozen (16 degrees right now) . The hot water isn't frozen and both hot and cold in the bathroom work fine. This is supposed to be a four seasons RV and has a fully enclosed bottom. I'm trying to figure out where I can apply heat to get the water running again and called Keystone to see if they would send me a plumbing diagram. They adamantly refused. I'm living in this thing, so can't just drop it off at the dealer for 2 weeks while they sure up whatever isn't insulated properly. Any idea on what I can do short of tearing the bottom off?

What is a galley tank water and galley tank valve? The galley gray tank? Do you move the trailer or is it fixed for the duration? You might consider skirting and some heat lamps under and perhaps a heated water hose and figure out how to keep the hose bib from freezing. Make sure there isn't anything in your sewer hose as well.

Desert5er · 02-12-2021, 12:53 PM

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I've got some things to try, so I'll give them a shot and post back once I've gotten this worked out.

**sourdough** · 02-12-2021, 01:15 PM

Be aware that "4 seasons" packages, "arctic" packages don't mean a lot in cold weather. It's near impossible to make an RV freeze proof in cold enough temps, and forget about the "down to 0 degrees" stuff. Maybe a flash drop for 15 minutes then reheat quickly.

You said you are living in it. Permanently in one place? Moving around? If permanent in one place you might try skirting after sealing every crack/opening under the trailer. Are you heating with the furnace? If not, you need to be. The belly is warmed by the routing of the heat ducts underneath as well as a small duct dropped in to push in some warm air. Open the cabinet doors so warm air can get to the lines.

You might open the panel behind the convenience center to see if you can determine if there might be some sort of routing issue that places the water line to the galley next to a wall or something like that. I know it has an island but I don't have any idea how that line is routed to get there.

jasin1 · 02-12-2021, 01:55 PM

I would be checking my propane level once a day at the least in the frigid weather. Your gonna go through propane quickly.
And now isn’t the time to be frugal as that is how your unit keeps the pipes and tanks from freezing... you do have your tank heaters on?
Also it may be an air gap around where the gray tank pipe goes into the bottom of trailer

bobbecky · 02-12-2021, 01:56 PM

Like what was previously said, get that furnace turned on, and 60 to 70 degrees will be fine. We have been in temps as low as 9 degrees and with the furnace set to 68, never had anything freeze, but you MUST be running the furnace. An electric heater will not work as it won't get heat into the belly where the tanks any lines are located.

jasin1 · 02-14-2021, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert5er

First winter in this 5th wheel and my galley cold water and galley tank valve have frozen (16 degrees right now) . The hot water isn't frozen and both hot and cold in the bathroom work fine. This is supposed to be a four seasons RV and has a fully enclosed bottom. I'm trying to figure out where I can apply heat to get the water running again and called Keystone to see if they would send me a plumbing diagram. They adamantly refused. I'm living in this thing, so can't just drop it off at the dealer for 2 weeks while they sure up whatever isn't insulated properly. Any idea on what I can do short of tearing the bottom off?

I think they refuse to give a plumbing or general wiring diagram in most cases because the diagram is sort of a “ suggestion” to the factory workers. There probably isn’t two trailers exactly the same.If they give you a diagram and you can prove it wasn’t followed at the factory then they may be on the hook for a repair

Desert5er · 03-24-2021, 04:04 PM

Now that winter is over, it looks like there may be a couple issues with my trailer. The first is a lowsy job done insulating the galley gray valve. I'll be cutting out the spray foam they used and fixing that. The other issue seems to be a routing issue on the cold line to the galley. Short of tearing things apart to remedy that, it sounds like my best bet is going to be skirting next winter. Thanks to all for the help and input.

rhagfo · 03-24-2021, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert5er

Now that winter is over, it looks like there may be a couple issues with my trailer. The first is a lowsy job done insulating the galley gray valve. I'll be cutting out the spray foam they used and fixing that. The other issue seems to be a routing issue on the cold line to the galley. Short of tearing things apart to remedy that, it sounds like my best bet is going to be skirting next winter. Thanks to all for the help and input.

So I missed this in February, as I think it was during our 9 day power outage here in western Oregon.
How are you heating your 5er in the winter? Electric space heaters, propane space heaters or propane furnace?
What is your power situation, full 50 amp service, 30 amp, or boondocking.

To at least help keep the pipes from freezing you need to run the furnace at least when it is really cold outside. Skirting will help, keep in mind that skirting should not contain the area under the propane tanks, as it would trap and leaked vapors.

**flybouy** · 03-25-2021, 10:35 AM

Haven't seen it posted yet but open all cabinet doors under the sinks. That will allow heat to circulate to the plumbing as well.

Desert5er · 03-25-2021, 01:25 PM

We heated using a combination of space heaters and furnace. When it got really cold, we only used the space heater enough to let the furnace shut down once in a while. We had no other freezing problems other than the galley drain valve (outside) and the galley cold. The hot water in the galley worked fine. The galley cold runs closest to the slide seal, which looks good and tight. This seems to be an issue where the cold wasn't routed close enough to the heating duct to keep it from freezing, so other than tearing it apart to reroute the cold, skirting will be my easiest option to try next.

rhagfo · 03-25-2021, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert5er

We heated using a combination of space heaters and furnace. When it got really cold, we only used the space heater enough to let the furnace shut down once in a while. We had no other freezing problems other than the galley drain valve (outside) and the galley cold. The hot water in the galley worked fine. The galley cold runs closest to the slide seal, which looks good and tight. This seems to be an issue where the cold wasn't routed close enough to the heating duct to keep it from freezing, so other than tearing it apart to reroute the cold, skirting will be my easiest option to try next.

Wow, your 35,000 BTU furnace couldn't keep up with heat loss in your 39' 5er. How hot were you trying to keep the inside? If heating to 65 degrees, that is a 50 degree difference. that is getting pretty high.

Desert5er · 03-26-2021, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Wow, your 35,000 BTU furnace couldn't keep up with heat loss in your 39' 5er. How hot were you trying to keep the inside? If heating to 65 degrees, that is a 50 degree difference. that is getting pretty high.

We were keeping it right around that. If we were just using it for a weekend, we would have just used the furnace and dropped the thermostat, but we're living and working full time in it and needed to achieve some reasonable amount of comfort without wearing it out.

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