Max turn technology. ? With a short bed

[Mandtra]

I have just put a deposit on a avalanche 338GK . I have a 2020 2500hd. 6 1/2’ bed . It’s advertised that I can get 87 degrees of turn with a standard non sliding hitch. With the max turn technology. Can anyone verify this ? Or anyone using a standard hitch with a short bed

[JDDilly]

You can do it, just have to watch as you are baking up. I had a short box for years and many times didn't slide the hitch.

[ChuckS]

I tow a 2014 Alpine with the radius front cap like the new Avalanche you are getting.

I have a slider hitch cause I didn't want to take a chance. My truck is a GMC short bed..

I used the slider function one time.. at dealership when picking the RV up. I have never used it since in 7 years of towing and boon docking.

The key when you are gonna back up is set yourself up with the RV and tow vehicle and you will never exceed over 45 degrees when backing.

the fifth wheel tires , spring hangers and such will be blowing you kisses if you learn to back up properly

Also when making a sharp turn ... like right after refueling learn to watch that drivers side mirror and swing out enough prior to exiting away or entering into a pump for fuel

the closest the front cap has ever come to my rear edge of tow vehicle rear window area is well over a foot of clearance..

It ... IMO is a matter of being aware of what your doing and dont let anyone distract you

[Brentw]

Also, you may have that, just enough room, till your trailer wheels drop into a hole or off a curb. Changing camber, changes clearance.

[sourdough]

Chuck made some good points. I have never, and never intend to, come close to 90 degrees intentionally. The lateral stress you put on the trailer suspension and tires can cause tremendous damage. Proper planning is key IMO.

In the event you hit that unforeseen circumstance I have had mine turned sharper than one should ever be (didn't measure the angle as I was in the middle of a 4 lane highway). It also has the max turn technology and I figure I was close to 90 degrees. I also use the Andersen Ultimate and have a SWB Ram 3500.

[JRTJH]

A couple things to consider:

1. A "bumper hitch" only allows a trailer to turn up to around 45 degrees and we "get along just fine" backing into nearly any spot in any campground" ... There are way too many people who subscribe to the "max turn of 90 degrees (or as close as possible) for fifth wheels. I'd suggest that anything over about 60 degrees (easily obtainable with nearly any "max turn technology") will give you a distinct advantage over a "bumper hitch"...

The "fact that we can" doesn't mean it's the wisest option for the truck, the trailer suspension, the tires or the hitch. So, for most people, it's not nearly as critical as you'd imagine it to be (before even buying the trailer)...

2. As for "backing the wheels off in a ditch and causing damage to the truck bed or trailer overhang... It's the same 5-7" of clearance with a long bed truck as it is with a short bed truck, so it is "smart backing policy" to pay attention to where your trailer wheels are with NO regard to the length of the truck bed.... Keeping your "head out of the cockpit" is just smart operation, for any RV owner and extends far beyond "truck bed length".....

3. The Avalanche 338GK is a 15,500 pound GVW trailer with an EMPTY pin weight of 2977 (before batteries or propane). Attempting to tow that size trailer with a 3/4 ton truck is not going to be the easiest if it's a gas engine, power will be the issue, even though it likely can accommodate the pin weight, or with a diesel which won't accommodate the pin, but has the "guts to pull the load"...... That trailer will "push the limits of a 1 ton truck" and is bouncing on the need for a DRW tow vehicle.....

[sourdough]

3. The Avalanche 338GK is a 15,500 pound GVW trailer with an EMPTY pin weight of 2977 (before batteries or propane). Attempting to tow that size trailer with a 3/4 ton truck is not going to be the easiest if it's a gas engine, power will be the issue, even though it likely can accommodate the pin weight, or with a diesel which won't accommodate the pin, but has the "guts to pull the load"...... That trailer will "push the limits of a 1 ton truck" and is bouncing on the need for a DRW tow vehicle.....


OP, my head wasn't clicking when I read you original post. The comment above is on the money. That trailer is too much for a 3/4 ton truck, gas or diesel, and probably a 1 ton. The same axiom that holds true for a 3/4 ton as was pointed out above holds true for a 1 ton as well.

I've searched high and low for trailers to fit a 3/4 and 1 ton truck using established weight criteria. I can tell you that my statement about the 3/4 is correct. At 15,500 my 1 ton (payload right at 4000 lbs) would not pull that trailer. The loaded pin would work on the truck but 2 things come into play; additional load in the truck plus payload and the ability of the gas engine to even pull that much weight decently. If you have a diesel then they aren't in the running in either case due to payload limitations. As in so many cases like this I would be moving that deposit to a smaller trailer or getting bigger truck. Not good news but reality.

[77cruiser]

I think the 2020's have about a 6-8 inch longer box & is about 6 inches more axle to cab distance.

[Mandtra]

Originally Posted by sourdough

3. The Avalanche 338GK is a 15,500 pound GVW trailer with an EMPTY pin weight of 2977 (before batteries or propane). Attempting to tow that size trailer with a 3/4 ton truck is not going to be the easiest if it's a gas engine, power will be the issue, even though it likely can accommodate the pin weight, or with a diesel which won't accommodate the pin, but has the "guts to pull the load"...... That trailer will "push the limits of a 1 ton truck" and is bouncing on the need for a DRW tow vehicle.....


OP, my head wasn't clicking when I read you original post. The comment above is on the money. That trailer is too much for a 3/4 ton truck, gas or diesel, and probably a 1 ton. The same axiom that holds true for a 3/4 ton as was pointed out above holds true for a 1 ton as well.

I've searched high and low for trailers to fit a 3/4 and 1 ton truck using established weight criteria. I can tell you that my statement about the 3/4 is correct. At 15,500 my 1 ton (payload right at 4000 lbs) would not pull that trailer. The loaded pin would work on the truck but 2 things come into play; additional load in the truck plus payload and the ability of the gas engine to even pull that much weight decently. If you have a diesel then they aren't in the running in either case due to payload limitations. As in so many cases like this I would be moving that deposit to a smaller trailer or getting bigger truck. Not good news but reality.

The 2021 338gk has a dry weight of 12,523 lbs. the dry weight and gross max axle weight are two very different numbers , the 15,500 is the absolute max weight the axles are rated for and it would never ever be loaded even close to that . and a pin weight of 2700 lbs .
And the wheelbase on the 2020 is 5.2” longer and the max tow capacity is 18,510lbs.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Mandtra

The 2021 338gk has a dry weight of 12,523 lbs. the dry weight and gross max axle weight is two very different numbers , the 15,500 is the absolute max weight the axles are rated for and it would never ever be loaded even close to that . and a pin weight of 2700 lbs .

Is the 2020 2500 HD, gas or diesel?
If gas your payload may be enough, if diesel the 2,700# Dry pin is likely more than the Yellow Sticker payload on the door post. If you only add 1,000# to the 5er, our pin could easily be 3,000#.
The 15,500# is GVWR or the total weight of the 5er, not what is on the axles.

[Mandtra]

Originally Posted by 77cruiser

I think the 2020's have about a 6-8 inch longer box & is about 6 inches more axle to cab distance.

You sir are correct , I looked and the 2020 wheelbase is 5.2” longer than in previous years. So that has to help some

[Mandtra]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Is the 2020 2500 HD, gas or diesel?
If gas your payload may be enough, if diesel the 2,700# Dry pin is likely more than the Yellow Sticker payload on the door post. If you only add 1,000# to the 5er, our pin could easily be 3,000#.
The 15,500# is GVWR or the total weight of the 5er, not what is on the axles.

It’s the duramax with a 18510 towing and payload rating of 3600 lbs

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Mandtra

The 2021 338gk has a dry weight of 12,523 lbs. the dry weight and gross max axle weight are two very different numbers , the 15,500 is the absolute max weight the axles are rated for and it would never ever be loaded even close to that . and a pin weight of 2700 lbs .
And the wheelbase on the 2020 is 5.2” longer and the max tow capacity is 18,510lbs.

Throw the max tow numbers out of your head and mind....they are irrelevant. Look at the door sticker of YOUR truck and the length etc. have no bearing.

Just put simply, a 12,523 dry trailer with propane, batteries and hitch in the truck will be around 12,800+. Add folks, tools for the truck, toys etc. and you will be close to 14k without blinking....and you haven't loaded the trailer. 13k at 21% pin = 2730lbs. Now, we're back to the original question - what is that payload on the sticker? If diesel it won't work.

Trying to always "think" that you will carry nothing in the trailer, go with brochure "dry weights" and brochure "pin weights", kids won't grow etc. is....just not smart. Read my previous post.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Mandtra

It’s the duramax with a 18510 towing and payload rating of 3600 lbs

Is that payload from the yellow sticker on your door pillar or brochure?
2020 GM 2500, what is the trucks GVWR on the VIN sticker? I can’t remember if it was 2020 or 2021 that GM offered 2500’s with 11,500ish GVWR.

[Chad1383]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Is that payload from the yellow sticker on your door pillar or brochure?
2020 GM 2500, what is the trucks GVWR on the VIN sticker? I can’t remember if it was 2020 or 2021 that GM offered 2500’s with 11,500ish GVWR.

Yeah those numbers are accurate for a 2021 depending on a number of other things. Could be slightly less, my 2021 3500 HD comes in at 14,100

[nellie1289]

did GM finally figure out the listed payloads of the 2500 is a joke? thought those were federally regulated to only 10,000. maybe something changed. By the way, yet another thread that started out on another topic, turning radius, and ends up in weight limits.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Chad1383

Yeah those numbers are accurate for a 2021 depending on a number of other things. Could be slightly less, my 2021 3500 HD comes in at 14,100

Interesting that would make your 3500 a Class 4 truck, Ford holds the F450 with bed to 14,000# GVWR to avoid having to register it as a commercial truck in most states.

[Chad1383]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Interesting that would make your 3500 a Class 4 truck, Ford holds the F450 with bed to 14,000# GVWR to avoid having to register it as a commercial truck in most states.

Sorry that was a typo. It should have said 12,100

[wiredgeorge]

Mandtra, In case you want to mention the payload specific to you truck, it is in the driver door frame; a yellow/white placard such as this one. You might want to mention what it actually is and not a number from a marketing brochure.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Is the 2020 2500 HD, gas or diesel?
If gas your payload may be enough, if diesel the 2,700# Dry pin is likely more than the Yellow Sticker payload on the door post. If you only add 1,000# to the 5er, our pin could easily be 3,000#.
The 15,500# is GVWR or the total weight of the 5er, not what is on the axles.

Originally Posted by Mandtra

It’s the duramax with a 18510 towing and payload rating of 3600 lbs

Well those numbers may be correct for a low trim regular cab, but you have any higher trim a 10,000 GVWR 2500HD DMax will likely top out at a little over 2,000#. in 2020 I believe that even the 3500HD GVWR topped out at 11,500. So that 5er would be a push for a 2020 GM DMax 3500 HD SRW.