Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Repairs & Maintenance
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-14-2014, 09:47 AM   #1
Pulln
Senior Member
 
Pulln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tampa
Posts: 219
d-ring tie down replacement

The d ring tie downs in my TH are rusted up something awful and would like to remove them. See the attached photo.

I have a few questions about the removal and replacement process. I want to be as gentle as possible but I know Murphy is lurking in every screw and every tie down.

What would be the best approach to removing the screws?

When a screw breaks what would be the best procedure and tools needed for backing it out?

Once they are out should I replace them with the typical zinc plated tie downs or is there a better corrosion resistant tie down I should shop for.

As always I appreciate all the help and wisdom you all impart upon me.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	dring tie down.jpg
Views:	151
Size:	99.0 KB
ID:	7458  
__________________
2008 F250 6.4L Crew Cab FX4 Long Bed
2009 Fuzion 402
2012 Ducati 848 Evo Corse (Mine)
2010 Yorkshire Terrier (Wife, she is the Alpha)
Pulln is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2014, 03:25 PM   #2
bobbecky
Senior Member
 
bobbecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,897
If I had corrosion problems like that, my first choice would be from a boat supply place. You might not get the exact replacement, but they will have parts that will hold up to salt water.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402 Montana
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC
bobbecky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2014, 06:05 PM   #3
Pulln
Senior Member
 
Pulln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tampa
Posts: 219
excellent idea. You'd think given my first name is noah and living in southwest florida I'd be more familiar with boat stores I've probably driven by 100 of em and not even noticed. I'll hit up google in the morning to see if I can find a couple.
__________________
2008 F250 6.4L Crew Cab FX4 Long Bed
2009 Fuzion 402
2012 Ducati 848 Evo Corse (Mine)
2010 Yorkshire Terrier (Wife, she is the Alpha)
Pulln is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2014, 03:28 PM   #4
Pulln
Senior Member
 
Pulln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tampa
Posts: 219
i was able to back all but one of the 10mm bolts out. One snapped in half an am struggling to back it out but suspect I am going to have to drill all the way through.

The other came out pretty easy but the heads were stripped so I had to use the Irwin socket to back em out. I am concerned about what sort of hardware I should use to secure the new tie downs after I get them.

I would really appreciate any info/advice on whether I should use a larger diameter bolt as replacement. If so should I just use a larger self taping bolt or should I tap it by hand.

I do transport motorcycles back there and want to make sure I do this properly for safeties sake first and foremost and property protection as well.
__________________
2008 F250 6.4L Crew Cab FX4 Long Bed
2009 Fuzion 402
2012 Ducati 848 Evo Corse (Mine)
2010 Yorkshire Terrier (Wife, she is the Alpha)
Pulln is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2014, 05:58 PM   #5
hankaye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Arrey,
Posts: 2,368
Pulln, Howdy;

I concur with the Marine hardware.

Are the orig. screws mounted as self-tappers or is the framing they are
installed into tapped for a regular machine screw to be installed?

If self tappers I'd go to the next diameter larger and tap for machine
screws. I'd then use some anti-seize on the threads of the new hardware.
Then on your wedding anniversary, or another easy to remember date, I'd
remove them all along with the pad-eyes and clean & inspect, then replace
what needs replaced then reinstall (with a fresh coat of anti-seize), repete
in another year. The key is to stay ahead of the corrosion so you don't
have this problem in the future.
__________________
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

Home: 2008 Cougar 278 RKS
T.V.: 2004 F-250 4X4, Level III BulletProofed , Detroit Tru-Track Differential (915A550)
Dog: 2006 Border Collie (Rascal) aka Maximum fur dispersal unit. (08/04/2006 - 12/16/2017) RIP.
hankaye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2014, 06:15 PM   #6
Pulln
Senior Member
 
Pulln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tampa
Posts: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by hankaye View Post
Pulln, Howdy;

I concur with the Marine hardware.

Are the orig. screws mounted as self-tappers or is the framing they are
installed into tapped for a regular machine screw to be installed?

If self tappers I'd go to the next diameter larger and tap for machine
screws. I'd then use some anti-seize on the threads of the new hardware.
Then on your wedding anniversary, or another easy to remember date, I'd
remove them all along with the pad-eyes and clean & inspect, then replace
what needs replaced then reinstall (with a fresh coat of anti-seize), repete
in another year. The key is to stay ahead of the corrosion so you don't
have this problem in the future.
The main center bolt was self tapping. the outer screws only sunk in to the wood and are pretty small. I don't have any expectation to pull the outer screws out peacefully so I'll like just drill them out.

I want to make this as secure as possible and was thinking of using longer 5/16th self tapping in place of the small wood screws that keystone used.

I bought the camper used and knew the tie downs needed replacement and will definitely stay on top of the preventative maintenance with the replacement HW.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	side.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	97.3 KB
ID:	7461   Click image for larger version

Name:	long.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	99.3 KB
ID:	7462  
__________________
2008 F250 6.4L Crew Cab FX4 Long Bed
2009 Fuzion 402
2012 Ducati 848 Evo Corse (Mine)
2010 Yorkshire Terrier (Wife, she is the Alpha)
Pulln is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 12:28 PM   #7
Pulln
Senior Member
 
Pulln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tampa
Posts: 219
with the Lords grace I was able to get them all out. The bolt that snapped end up eating the Irwin screw extractor so I am going to have to figure a way around that center bolt when i install the new stuff because that extractor along with the remainder of the screw is there to stay.

I didn't have any luck with the tie downs at the marine/boating shops I found so I am going to just order some from etrailer.com or some other online vendor.

The only thing I could use some good advice on pertains to the bolts. If any of you know what gauge/grade of steel the frames are constructed of I would appreciate the info.

I want to get some new self tapping bolts and not sure what kind/quality of bolt to shop for. I plan on tapping in to the frame from all three holes on the tie down. The center uses a hex head but am hoping to find something that has a flatter profile for the top and bottom bolt.

Any ligt you all can shed on the mounting HW is greatly appreciated.
__________________
2008 F250 6.4L Crew Cab FX4 Long Bed
2009 Fuzion 402
2012 Ducati 848 Evo Corse (Mine)
2010 Yorkshire Terrier (Wife, she is the Alpha)
Pulln is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 01:09 PM   #8
Desert185
Senior Member
 
Desert185's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,695
The hardware included with my Condor motorcycle chock was Grade 5. I used Grade 8 when bolting down d-rings on my car hauler.

I would ensure that the mounting hardware is at least Grade 5, and not use stainless hardware, but zinc plated, steel, Grade 5 with flat washers and nyloc nuts.
__________________
Desert185 🇺🇸 (Retired Chemtrail vendor)
-Ram 2500 QC, LB, 4x4, Cummins HO/exhaust brake, 6-speed stick.
-Andersen Ultimate 24K 5er Hitch.
-2014 Cougar 326SRX, Maxxis tires w/TPMS, wet bolts, two 6v batts.
-Four Wheel 8' Popup Camper.
Desert185 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 02:38 PM   #9
Pulln
Senior Member
 
Pulln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tampa
Posts: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert185 View Post
The hardware included with my Condor motorcycle chock was Grade 5. I used Grade 8 when bolting down d-rings on my car hauler.

Thanks for the info. I would ensure that the mounting hardware is at least Grade 5, and not use stainless hardware, but zinc plated, steel, Grade 5 with flat washers and nyloc nuts.
Appreciate the info. I've been thinking about securing them with nuts and bolts instead of the self tapping screws. Whats holding me back is the need to be able to self install. Plus not to be a lazy *** but I definitely do not feel like fighting with that cloroplast liner on the bottom to get to the bottom of the frame rails.

Did you buy your mounting HW at a local shop or online?
__________________
2008 F250 6.4L Crew Cab FX4 Long Bed
2009 Fuzion 402
2012 Ducati 848 Evo Corse (Mine)
2010 Yorkshire Terrier (Wife, she is the Alpha)
Pulln is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 04:59 PM   #10
Desert185
Senior Member
 
Desert185's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,695
The mounting hardware came with the chock, and the hardware for the car hauler was from Home Depot or Lowes.

Rather than removing the coroplast, just measure where you want to bolt the tiedown and cut three sides of a square flap in the coroplast, leaving the front side attached. After securing the hardware, tape the flap shut with Gorilla brand duct tape.
__________________
Desert185 🇺🇸 (Retired Chemtrail vendor)
-Ram 2500 QC, LB, 4x4, Cummins HO/exhaust brake, 6-speed stick.
-Andersen Ultimate 24K 5er Hitch.
-2014 Cougar 326SRX, Maxxis tires w/TPMS, wet bolts, two 6v batts.
-Four Wheel 8' Popup Camper.
Desert185 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 05:49 PM   #11
Pulln
Senior Member
 
Pulln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tampa
Posts: 219
that is definitely something I could chew on. I could get the Mrs' or my son to thread things from the top side and I could ratchet it from the bottom.

Looking back at toting my motorcycles back there knowing what I know now about how they secured these tie downs I kind of get nauseous. I just don't see how those self tapping screws in the center held.
__________________
2008 F250 6.4L Crew Cab FX4 Long Bed
2009 Fuzion 402
2012 Ducati 848 Evo Corse (Mine)
2010 Yorkshire Terrier (Wife, she is the Alpha)
Pulln is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 06:08 PM   #12
hankaye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Arrey,
Posts: 2,368
Pulln, Howdy;

can you fit some thin nosed locking pliers on the broken fastener?
If so give it a good soak with some PB-Blaster and let it sit for a day,
or you might be able to judiciously apply some heat to the surrounding
structure to help break the corrosion loose then use the locking pliers to
twist it out. Just thinkin' with my fingers...

hankaye
__________________
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

Home: 2008 Cougar 278 RKS
T.V.: 2004 F-250 4X4, Level III BulletProofed , Detroit Tru-Track Differential (915A550)
Dog: 2006 Border Collie (Rascal) aka Maximum fur dispersal unit. (08/04/2006 - 12/16/2017) RIP.
hankaye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 06:41 PM   #13
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulln View Post
Appreciate the info. I've been thinking about securing them with nuts and bolts instead of the self tapping screws. Whats holding me back is the need to be able to self install. Plus not to be a lazy *** but I definitely do not feel like fighting with that cloroplast liner on the bottom to get to the bottom of the frame rails.

Did you buy your mounting HW at a local shop or online?
There's really no need to remove the coroplast to access the bottom of the floor framework and resecure D-rings with conventional hardware. All you need to do is use a long straight pointed rod (like a piece of heavy weight coat hanger) and put it through the hole where you removed the self tapping screw. Push it through the coroplast and it will identify where you need to make a slit under the trailer. Access the bottom to install nuts through the slit and then seal with a piece of gorilla tape. There's no reason to have to remove the entire coroplast from that area to reinstall "reliable" hardware to hold the D-rings in place.

If you decide to use this method, just make sure there's no fuel tank, holding tank or other assembly above the coroplast in that area !!!

I would suggest that you consider using "hard" ware (no nylock nuts) in your reinstallation. Nylock nuts will not vibrate loose, but they have been known to pull through when there is excess strain on the assembly. A hard bump with a motorcycle strapped to the D-ring is no time to find out that Nylocks won't hole under the weight of the tie-downs.

Good Luck.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 07:04 PM   #14
Pulln
Senior Member
 
Pulln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tampa
Posts: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by hankaye View Post
Pulln, Howdy;

can you fit some thin nosed locking pliers on the broken fastener?
If so give it a good soak with some PB-Blaster and let it sit for a day,
or you might be able to judiciously apply some heat to the surrounding
structure to help break the corrosion loose then use the locking pliers to
twist it out. Just thinkin' with my fingers...

hankaye

I might be able to from the bottom. I soaked that damn thing for two days before trying to back it out. Unfortunately it snapped almost even with the top of the frame rail but there should be some exposed from the bottom.
__________________
2008 F250 6.4L Crew Cab FX4 Long Bed
2009 Fuzion 402
2012 Ducati 848 Evo Corse (Mine)
2010 Yorkshire Terrier (Wife, she is the Alpha)
Pulln is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 07:09 PM   #15
Pulln
Senior Member
 
Pulln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tampa
Posts: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
There's really no need to remove the coroplast to access the bottom of the floor framework and resecure D-rings with conventional hardware. All you need to do is use a long straight pointed rod (like a piece of heavy weight coat hanger) and put it through the hole where you removed the self tapping screw. Push it through the coroplast and it will identify where you need to make a slit under the trailer. Access the bottom to install nuts through the slit and then seal with a piece of gorilla tape. There's no reason to have to remove the entire coroplast from that area to reinstall "reliable" hardware to hold the D-rings in place.

If you decide to use this method, just make sure there's no fuel tank, holding tank or other assembly above the coroplast in that area !!!

I would suggest that you consider using "hard" ware (no nylock nuts) in your reinstallation. Nylock nuts will not vibrate loose, but they have been known to pull through when there is excess strain on the assembly. A hard bump with a motorcycle strapped to the D-ring is no time to find out that Nylocks won't hole under the weight of the tie-downs.

Good Luck.

good tips! Many thanks. I know the fuel tank is located in the back near the beaver tail but I do not know where the fresh and grey tanks are. I can kind of se through the center bolt hole due to some light leaking from the edge of the coropplast.

In the absence of the nylock is their a good anti seize compound that will help hold it in place and not oxidize in place at the same time. I don't expect to be doing much maintenance on the new ones once they are reinstalled but would like to have the option.

I think having the cuts in the bottom will give me some spots to spray for pest and varmints.
__________________
2008 F250 6.4L Crew Cab FX4 Long Bed
2009 Fuzion 402
2012 Ducati 848 Evo Corse (Mine)
2010 Yorkshire Terrier (Wife, she is the Alpha)
Pulln is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 07:19 PM   #16
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,841
You can always use Loc-tite on the bolt threads. Red is "permanent" and blue is "almost permanent". That will make your nut installation easier than trying to install washers under the nuts. If you use a good high intensity flash light you should be able to remove one screw from the coroplast and peek into the "underbelly". It's easiest to see well into the underbelly at dusk or in the evening when there isn't a lot of light outside. If there are any tanks there, you'll see them.

As for using Nylock nuts, my reason for not using them is because the only ones "usually available" in most hardware stores are grade 2. They will strip very easily with any tension on the assembly. If you can find grade 5 or grade 8 Nylocks, they would work for you, but unless you can find a specialty fastener store, you're probably not going to find anything but grade 2 Nylocks.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 07:51 PM   #17
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,235
Good fender washers to spread the load, lock washers and grade 8 bolts and nuts. Loc-Tite blue and your golden.

I've removed a couple of edge screws to access stuff underneath without cutting a hole in the coroplast.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 09:44 PM   #18
Desert185
Senior Member
 
Desert185's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,695
For those tiedowns, nylocs and washers should be fine. For car hauler loads, no nylocs. I used grade 8 nuts and bolts and split lock washers.

My Condor motorcycle chock came with nylocs, grade 5 bolts and flat washers. Must be acceptable for the application, and certainly better than self-tapping screws.

For the OP, try a heat gun for removing that broken screw along with a good penetrating oil. Kroil or PB Blaster works well. Once again, use zinc plated hardware.
__________________
Desert185 🇺🇸 (Retired Chemtrail vendor)
-Ram 2500 QC, LB, 4x4, Cummins HO/exhaust brake, 6-speed stick.
-Andersen Ultimate 24K 5er Hitch.
-2014 Cougar 326SRX, Maxxis tires w/TPMS, wet bolts, two 6v batts.
-Four Wheel 8' Popup Camper.
Desert185 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 06:43 AM   #19
Pulln
Senior Member
 
Pulln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tampa
Posts: 219
Thank you gents. I am trying to find a specialty fastener store nearby. Like the marine stores I am sure they are around but havent had any interaction with any in the past. I did find a shop called Redneck Trailer Company that isnt too far away from me and plan on stopping in there this afternoon.

Again I appreciate the insight on how to properly fix this.
__________________
2008 F250 6.4L Crew Cab FX4 Long Bed
2009 Fuzion 402
2012 Ducati 848 Evo Corse (Mine)
2010 Yorkshire Terrier (Wife, she is the Alpha)
Pulln is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 09:11 AM   #20
pakuma
Senior Member
 
pakuma's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: West Hills
Posts: 125
For the best corrosion resistant fasteners go with stainless steel. i have never had these corrode. Instead of nylocks you could use distorted thread nuts, even better would be distorted thread serrated flange nuts. Hope this helps.
__________________
Jeff Frankel
2013 Cougar 297RKWS
2019 Ram 2500 6.4l Diesel
pakuma is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.